Controversial Origins

Published by henderob March 1st, 2007 in General FSM news.

The UC San Diego’s The Guardian has a good article on the Intelligent Design movement / controversy.

Intelligent design assumes that the world is so complex, that it is so statistically unlikely for humans to have formed, that God or some other higher power must have designed it. Even assuming that the two ideas are equally valid explanations of the world, evolution does not require the additional belief, a massive leap of faith, in a mystical higher power in its explanation. However, intelligent design suffers from an utter lack of positive evidence in its favor and thus is as valid of a scientific theory as the notion that a Flying Spaghetti Monster, the subject of a well-known satire of intelligent design, created the world.

Link to the article.

141 Responses to “Controversial Origins”

1. 81 - March 3rd, 2007 at 2:29 pm - Wench Nikkiee Says:
   
   

   Hmm….will try that link again
   http://godlesswonder.blogspot.com/2005/11/top-10-list-reasons-mary-cant-stop.html

2. 82 - March 3rd, 2007 at 2:37 pm - Booty Says:
   
   

   Yeah - there is no point in robbing old ladies, cos they don’t have any money left! Go for the youngsters every time ;)

3. 83 - March 3rd, 2007 at 2:40 pm - Booty Says:
   
   

   Sorry Batman - as a veteran of many a mother of all hangovers I do entirely sympathise - if there was a devil, hangovers would be sent by them - but we can at least be safe in the knowledge that the great FSM himself suffered just as we do after he created the beer volcano - so we are not alone in our suffering ;)
   No upset intended :)
   Now go and get the post - your tea will have arrived ;)

4. 84 - March 3rd, 2007 at 2:43 pm - Wench Nikkiee Says:
   
   

   @Booty
   True Booty… true :)

5. 85 - March 3rd, 2007 at 2:47 pm - Batman Says:
   
   

   @Booty
   Ha ha ha ha… not upset!! Totally my own fault… if I was in your shoes, I would probably tease me too! Thanks for the tea… imaginary though it may be… very comforting! Feeling much better now actually, have eaten some cozy toast and had coffee. Almost back to human. =)

6. 86 - March 3rd, 2007 at 4:59 pm - Captain Noodulous Silicate TBHNA Says:
   
   

   Blimey Booty.
   Dress like a pirate. Think like a pirate.
   .
   RAmen

7. 87 - March 3rd, 2007 at 6:29 pm - Marc McOar Says:
   
   

   Well, Catholic2000 sounds like it goose-steps right along with the Pope. Heil! What a lovely world it must be where no one disagrees with you.

8. 88 - March 3rd, 2007 at 7:03 pm - DutchPastaGuy Says:
   
   

   @Marc McOar
   A, bringing up the popes German, Hitler Jugend past.
   .
   Q: do you know how Ratzinger got a job in the Vatican?
   A: While in the Hitler jugend he thought that was way too liberal and left-leaning. He wanted something a bit more conservative. So he switched to the Catholic church.

9. 89 - March 3rd, 2007 at 7:13 pm - Batman Says:
   
   

   @Marc McOar
   I don’t know how these people don’t get bored with themselves… how dull to live in world where no one disagrees with you.

10. 90 - March 3rd, 2007 at 7:21 pm - Pixel Pop Says:
    
    

    @Alchemist
    I’m not as much for the going over there part of it, but if you lure some fundies here, I’ll give ‘em one hell of a fight.
    @Wench Beth
    That’s too bad. Unless he was an ass, which brings up the question why are you friends with an ass. Did he have a mean roundhouse kick?
    @Booty
    I’ve been here. I just couldn’t take the lag from the “Yeah, I know it’s satire” thread so I stopped posting.
    RAmen

11. 91 - March 3rd, 2007 at 8:13 pm - Wench Beth Says:
    
    

    To Pixel Pop… my Chuck Norris look-alike friend wasn’t an ass, but I can definitely say that I am friends with a couple asses!!!

12. 92 - March 3rd, 2007 at 10:46 pm - Bob_the_goth_kid Says:
    
    

    I like this site…

    I have a question for you fsm’ers

    You think God is nothing more than an imaginary idea, right?

    Aristotle wrote

    “Men create gods after their own image, not only with regard to their form but with regard to their mode of life.”

    So, I totally agree people make shit up… but doesn’t the idea of a “first cause” make sense?

    The idea that all thing’s share a “source”, that everything, the universe and life came from…

    You have to admit that big bang’s, apemen, and magic soup sound just as silly as flying spaghetti monsters

    Seriously, flying spaghetti monster vs. Magic Soup

    Magic soup randomly spews out genetic information zillions of years ago, ultimately leading to this forum and spaghetti monster satire….

    Let’s recap

    A giant explosion happens (never mind the fact that there must already be something in existence for something to explode)

    Universe is made, ignoring the fact that galaxies spiral in un-uniform manners, and that the universe we live in remains a fairly constant tempature all across it
    (the horizon problem)

    Some how, despite all odds, magic soup saves the day!

    Out comes tony little organisims, which ultimately become your dog fido, a pine tree, freaken hippo’s, horses, whales, bats…

    All sorts of shit…

    Here’s a question…

    Why in the hell would chaos produce all this shit? even given an “eternity” to accomplish all these aimless objectives, chaos never produces information…

    Is this proof for the FSM? no, but it sure is hell isn’t proof for Magic Soup…

13. 93 - March 4th, 2007 at 12:29 am - Wench Beth Says:
    
    

    To Bob_the_goth_kid… you raise some very good points and I toast you with my bottle of rum, but I’m afraid you’ve missed the point entirely, dear lad. We *HAVE* proof for the FSM: a graph.
    .
    Now “Magic Soup”; that’s another can of worms entirely. The FSM made the Big Bang to happen, the FSM invented the recipe for the magic soup, and the FSM has controlled our perception of all this since the beginning of time.
    .
    And even if you get into string theory, alternate universes, fluidic space (the realm of species 8472) — which could all explain how an explosion could occur with nothing being there to explode — the FSM has created all these possibilities and given us the brain power to confuse ourselves totally with them.
    .
    So I suggest, humbly, that you join us — the group with PROOF of our maker’s existence — and grab an ale. The stripper show is about to begin! RAmen to you.

14. 94 - March 4th, 2007 at 12:31 am - Arthur Says:
    
    

    @ Bob the Goth Kid:
    “So, I totally agree people make shit up… but doesn’t the idea of a “first cause” make sense?”
    .
    Just because you’d think something makes sense doesn’t mean that’s how it is. Think about your average atom; comprised almost entirely of empty space. If you were to shrink to the size of an electron and get shot through the Earth, you MIGHT bump into a couple of other particle on the whole trip. Keep in mind this is while shooting through dense solids. Sometimes fact can be stranger than fiction.
    .
    “You have to admit that big bang’s, apemen, and magic soup sound just as silly as flying spaghetti monsters”
    .
    No we don’t, although I’m curious about this Magic Soup; is it a side dish to His Noodliness?
    .
    “Seriously, flying spaghetti monster vs. Magic Soup”
    .
    Battle to the death?
    .
    “Magic soup randomly spews out genetic information zillions of years ago, ultimately leading to this forum and spaghetti monster satire….”
    .
    And this is where I want to cry. Whoever taught you the basic ideas of evolution (and abiogenesis, which you seem to be referring to here) either needs to explain it to you again, or needs someone to explain it to them. You’re right on one count; the primordial ooze (the name for your “magic soup” that takes it from Narnia to Earth) randomly spewing about genetic information does sound absurd. Fortunately, no respectable scientist is claiming this. The basic science you’re referring to is pre-biology, since what you’re talking about is nonliving. Self-replicating molecules use up resources to create more of themselves into chains; some of the molecules will be better suited to this task than others (for whatever reason, just keep in mind that the factors are chemical reactions instead of evolutionary pressures) and they will grow to outnumber their less-fit “brethren”. As these molecules manage to grow more and more complex (with the changing environment of Earth allowing new elements to combine into different compounds), eventually this leads to the assembling of proteins and then amino acids, the “building blocks of life”. From the protolife we have here, evolution as we understand it can start phasing in to take over the replication (since we now have genetic material to work with). I cannot stress enough, however, that this process is not random (I might go over that in more detail later; I’ve had 1 hour of sleep since Friday morning and I don’t know how wide my attention span is right now).
    .
    “A giant explosion happens (never mind the fact that there must already be something in existence for something to explode)”
    .
    Law of Conservation of Mass-Energy: matter and energy can neither be created or destroyed, they can only change forms. Just because the universe didn’t exist as we know it doesn’t mean that the matter wasn’t there. The only people claiming the “something from nothing” idea are theists. Science leans more towards the “it’s always been there” thing. If you can disprove this law, however, I imagine there’s a Nobel in it for you, since that will lead to (off the top of my head) unlimited energy, and answer to the trash problem, feeding the hungry, creation of anything one wants, etc. I don’t think even a Nobel would be worthy of such an accomplishment, actually.
    .
    “Universe is made, ignoring the fact that galaxies spiral in un-uniform manners, and that the universe we live in remains a fairly constant tempature all across it
    (the horizon problem)”
    .
    Maybe I’m just being ignorant, but what do these have to do with keeping life from forming?
    .
    “Some how, despite all odds, magic soup saves the day!”
    .
    Again, your reference to it as “Magic Soup” continues to show your lack of understanding of the subject. Moving on…
    .
    “Why in the hell would chaos produce all this shit? even given an “eternity” to accomplish all these aimless objectives, chaos never produces information…”
    .
    Ok, I thought I’d have to come back to the chaos question. *gets drink of water before ranting* As I mentioned before, I cannot stress enough that the idea of evolution being in any way “random” is a lie propagated by those who either don’t understand the theory (and are making an honest mistake) and those who are actively fighting it (and intentionally and knowingly spreading lies). If anything, evolution is the antithesis of randomness; every environmental and genetic factor has a part to play in the process. The only element of randomness in the sense you’re thinking of (and this is where people get thrown off) are mutations, which are admittedly random. However, the only thing about them that’s random is their occurrence. Whether or not the mutation is passed on is based on how successful the organism is (often due to the mutation); less successful mutations will die out, and more successful ones will be passed on to future progeny and more of the species will have this advantageous difference; nothing random there. Either it works and stays, or it doesn’t and goes. Natural selection is a meticulous process of trial and error on a grand scale, and this process helps to increase the survival of both the organisms individually and as a species (as the traits are passed to more of the population).
    /rant
    .
    “Is this proof for the FSM? no, but it sure is hell isn’t proof for Magic Soup… ”
    .
    No, this isn’t proof for the FSM; we have LOADS of proofs in other areas that don’t rely on a complete misunderstanding of the world we live in.
    .
    On a completely random note, I think that on average, I have the longest single posts now, since this is my second gigantic post and I’m not yet what I’d consider a regular poster.

15. 95 - March 4th, 2007 at 12:32 am - Arthur Says:
    
    

    Dammit, Wench Beth had a TOTALLY better reply than me.
    .
    *passes out*

16. 96 - March 4th, 2007 at 2:17 am - Booty Says:
    
    

    Nice one Arthur! Very well written and concise.
    And Hi there! Welcome aboard! I missed your other long post - care to tell me where to look?
    @ Bob the Goth Kid - please, I thought Goth’s knew more about questioning the lies other people try to force on you? Still, I suppose there is always a few who are just in it for the cool black clothes and looking miserable.
    Seriously, I know that Goth’s are too cool to study, but you really need to do a little bit of research before you spout crap at people.
    I am a nurse, and believe me, human bodies are VERY random and chaotic! If God designed them he did a really crap job - a lot of them are a total frigging disaster!
    I wouldn’t trust him to change a lightbulb!
    Now, if, like us, you accept that life was formed after a heavy night at the beer volcano, and the FSM was a tad drunk and made a bit of a mess of it, it makes a lot more sense, and, unlike the judeo-christian God, our God is friendly, fun and non-judgemental - I know who I’d rather believe in.
    RAmen.

17. 97 - March 4th, 2007 at 2:25 am - Avatar of Reason Says:
    
    

    @Arthur:
    Nice rant.

18. 98 - March 4th, 2007 at 2:40 am - Arthur Says:
    
    

    @ Booty
    Finally dug it up; thank FSM for a search feature on the browser (couldn’t remember where I posted it). It’s not as long as this one, but it still struck me as being longer than normal (which I commented on there as well). http://www.venganza.org/2007/01/31/army.htm#comments About 1/3 down the scrollbar on my computer
    .
    @ The rest of you
    Thank ye. *blushes*

19. 99 - March 4th, 2007 at 3:05 am - Booty Says:
    
    

    Thanks Arthur!
    Much obliged. :)
    *scurries off to have a look*

20. 100 - March 4th, 2007 at 4:39 am - Wench Nikkiee Says:
    
    

    @Arthur
    I second the previous responses to your post :) A big RAmen Arthur :) I’m off following Booty to the other one too.
    Again RAmen

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