The UC San Diego’s The Guardian has a good article on the Intelligent Design movement / controversy.
Intelligent design assumes that the world is so complex, that it is so statistically unlikely for humans to have formed, that God or some other higher power must have designed it. Even assuming that the two ideas are equally valid explanations of the world, evolution does not require the additional belief, a massive leap of faith, in a mystical higher power in its explanation. However, intelligent design suffers from an utter lack of positive evidence in its favor and thus is as valid of a scientific theory as the notion that a Flying Spaghetti Monster, the subject of a well-known satire of intelligent design, created the world.
Link to the article.
First post!
Well, true, only our spaghetti monster exists! ;-)
I find that religiously offensive!
:P
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Finally a new thread, say goodbye to lag!
Pixel is back.
RAmen
Hi Pixel :)
Woohoo - new thread to pollute.
RAmen to that my man :)
Hey! THAT’S WHERE I WENT TO SCHOOL!! I’m glad my alma mater has been touched by His Noodly Appendage!
The Guardian is the student-run newspaper, by the way.
How could they, we should sue them.
Comparing the holy FSM to a myth like ID.
@ Wench Beth - very cool!
@ Pixel Pop - glad to see you here. I was going to ask someone to tell you it was time to come out and play!! :)
@ Alchemist - “woo hoo - a new thread” was also my first thought. I didn’t get as far as the pollute part, but I like it!
Gotta run - time to eat and then head to my martial arts class. Lesson night tonight - I’d better focus and pay attention! Although when a 10th degree black belt tells you to pay attention, it’s easier to focus!! :)
Whoo, Rowdy Wench, you do martial arts, too?! Awesome! What a great skill to have on a pirate ship! You know (theoretical scenario), you lose your cutlass so you just lay your enemy down with your own two hands!
Pixel Pop, it’s a good thing you’re back. The wenches were starting to get worried ;)
@ Wench Beth - It’s terribly difficult some days to walk away from this site! I’m a green belt in Kenpo Karate. Busted my ass to get it too! What do you do?
I’m a black belt in origami.
Very impressive, Rowdy Wench! I bow down to you :) I need a bodyguard now that my best pal’s in a cast for six weeks — want the job? (ha ha)
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I’m a professional musician who is doing something completely different at the moment — working as a full time kitty nurse! (I guess I can sing and play to the cats and combine both skills ;)
@Alchemist
Have you seen Petey at all?
@Rowdy Wench
I always come back to my wenches ;)
@Wench Beth
My bad, didn’t mean to make you worry!
RAmen
@Rowdy Wench
I fight Chuck Norris style. I use my shear awesomeness to beat people up ;)
RAmen
@ Rowdy Wench - I think we should take it in turns to send hate mail to Bobby. We need at least four new threads a week! Just look at he size of some of them! 1200+ by jeebus!
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Doesn’t really matter what the subject is, well soon divert it :)
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Either that or leave prayer requests at any site gullible enough :)
@ Pixel.
No. Sorry mate. He’s not talking to me again after I sided with Batman! Sorry.
Think I’ve blown it! My posts are being wiped :( Bugger!
They must be aware that they have a troll invasion by now. Tomorrow night the grand final? I’m about to get some sleep, as it is past midnight over here. JB and UK Pastafarians may soon follow, so if we do it now I think many of us will miss it. Tomorrow night UK time, early evening US (East Coast) time?
@Alchemist Mar 1st, 2007 at 5:46 pm “Think I’ve blown it! My posts are being wiped :( Bugger!”
In which thread? I see a lot of Daniel’s posts! Soon I’ll have to give up the copying, can’t follow anymore…
No replies to them now JB :(
‘Night everyone
I’m off too, had already been falling asleep while teaching today…
Night DPG! Night Florence! Sugar lump mines for me !
The Flying Spaghetti Monster proves intelligent design because the noodly one is so complex he just couldnt be the result of mere chance. Only way to explain it - the FSM intelligently designed himself.
@ Pixel Pop - “I always come back to my wenches” - yay!!
“I fight Chuck Norris style. I use my shear awesomeness to beat people up” hahaha!! Love it!
@ Alchemist - I love the hate mail idea. The longer threads get bogged down…and we are so creative it really doesn’t matter where the thread starts! Or maybe it’s just collective ADD?
@Rowdy. Hi :)
Yeah. Doesn’t really matter does it. After twenty posts, at the most, it’s turned into what we to talk about.
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Not sure about collecti….oooh, spider……………………
@ Alchemist - hahahaha!! Love it! We say “oh look, a chicken!” or “Sorry, I got distracted by something shiny!” Thanks for the laugh! And Hi :) from me!
Seems like I’m being ignored on the http://www.inthepursuitofgod.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=57
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forums :(
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Rowdy - a lecturer once said to us that “do you know, Chimpanzees have a longer something or other span than thingies” something like that anyway, there were windows in the room and things moved :)
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By the way; old joke.
“Why don’t Art students’ look out of the window in the morning?
So that they have something to do in the afternoon!” Boom, Boom!!
@ Alchemist - Glad to know I’m not the only one with attention problems during lectures!! :) I have notes from college/university (THAT was a lifetime ago it seems!) that are unreadable from where I fell asleep with my pen on the paper!! Then there were the classes where I did the crossword puzzle every day!! Only way to stay awake… :)
OMFSM - read a little bit on the “pursuit of god” website (about 1 minutes worth - sorry, hard to take!) and these people are for real? I read some of what Daughter has to say - several of you have mentioned her. Wow…
Well, I’d better go. Lots of stuff to get done tonight.
“… intelligent design suffers from an utter lack of positive evidence in its favor and thus is as valid of a scientific theory as the notion that a Flying Spaghetti Monster, the subject of a well-known satire of intelligent design, created the world.”
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What utter nonsense. We have a graph. They don’t.
Can someone go to the fundie site and check out the thread, um, I didn’t copy it, but it’s in the “Introduce Yourself”… it was started by evedaughterofgod
@Rowdy Wench - I have some original “David’s”. Classic ‘pen and ink’ sketching. Quite naive really. His “Daffodildo” 1992 really has to be seen to be appreciated :)
Yeah - “pen on cheek ‘cos I fell asleep!” - classic
RAmen!
Erm… how many pirates are on that site now? Are people going in under multiple names, or are there just a whole lot of us?
@Batman. I suspect it’s been well and truly trolled to death by now :)
Anyone have a new target?
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nice to catch you again Batman :)
@Alchemist
Thanks! Aw, I’m sad that the fundie-baiting times are over. I was just starting to enjoy myself, having decided guilt was a wasted emotion on those people. Oh well… onwards and upwards. =)
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Did Thumper ever get back on?
@Batman. Don’t worry :) give me a few hours tomorrow and I’ll try to have a new site to join.
Unless someone else comes up with one to abuse :)
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Then Thumper can play too! Shit, a Catholic one would be fun :)
Er. If anyone feels a little daft sometime, how about
http://www.christianchat.co.uk/
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With webcams :)
@ Alchemist - I’d love to see what happens when a bunch of pirates descend on a Catholic site! *claps hands*
Oh my… that jesus board is just getting funky, and not in a Mighty Boosh sort of way (one of the best shows ever!)
Hello Jingles :) Hope I don’t embarrass you (hahahahahaha….yeah right), but you are one of my favourite posters :) ( Aside from my darling sheep molesterer of course ;)
As always
Ramen Jingles
ps Watch your head there ;)
Some american fundies started their own on-line encyclopedia because of the “anti-christian”bias on wiki.Read and laugh at their claims.
www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,,2024762,00.html
They have no idea just how ridiculous they sound.
And you could always choose something from
http://www.faithforum.co.uk/phpBB2/
S
Or go directly to the discussion on sin in
http://www.freejesus.net/home/
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The article is amazing. I had actually already read it, but it still is incredibly well written. I agree that you can observe the world around you, but you can’t force your beliefs on people.
see this website for an interesting argument to logicaly explain why these people insist on ID.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russell%27s_teapot
it is a good page that features an interesting hypothetical theory of human nature and God.
@ you know who you are :)
Found a free Catholic Chat site with easy login. Just take a look at those rules though. I don’t think we’d last ten seconds :)
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http://www.ecatholic2000.com/chat/chat.shtml
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Still, worth thinking about.
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That freejesus one looks good nowis. Did you see how many of the threads forbid debate. Spooky!
I think faithforum is definitely worth a visit. It seems to encourage debate. That’s got to be worth it, we wont even have to pretend :)
The FSM does exist !
I can feel it in my heart.
Anyone who denies the FSM deserves to be separated eternally from Pasta, Beer, and Strippers.
rAmen
@Pixel - don’t you know Chuck Norris is a fundie? Go to his website, www.chucknorris.com, click on “Christian Area” and check out some of the links, including “National Council on Bible Curriculum in Public Schools” and Billy Graham.
@ Liguini Lass - Welcome! Love the name! What a shame about Chuck…I guess no one is perfect.
@ Alchemist - I checked out the rules, and I think we violate every single one of them! Was laughing out loud by the 3rd one!!
I’m out for now. I have an injured horse to take care of (he is soooo bored at this point!) and other things to take care of…
I want to be an official representative of the FSM Church in Georgia (Caucasus, former USSR) and spread the only truth - the FSM’s word there.
Could you appoint me a bishop (or whatever…) of the FSM’s church in Georgia and send me some official document?
I find it extremely important to save souls of my compatriots.
All Hail Bishop Sandro, leader of the Georgian CoFSM!
@ Physics Wench and Sandro - RAmen to that! Sandro, I don’t think we have official documents (unless you count our graph). That’s too much like bureaucracy. I hope you will be guided well by His Noodly Appendage in your worthy work to save souls.
Ramen, Blessed is the holy ArchBishop Sandro spiritual leader of Georgia’s pastafarian hordes,
Yarrr, Jim lad n’ shiver me timbers…..hicccc
“Sandro Mar 2nd, 2007 at 3:13 pm
I want to be an official representative of the FSM Church in Georgia (Caucasus, former USSR) and spread the only truth - the FSM’s word there.
Could you appoint me a bishop (or whatever…) of the FSM’s church in Georgia and send me some official document?
I find it extremely important to save souls of my compatriots.”
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Well, heck yeah!
Missionary, Bishop Sandro.
Your goal is a grand one, for sure!
You can pretty much make up your own documentation, for whatever it is you want to be. The FSM is pretty laid back, and won’t be bothered with titling you.
Gotta do that for yourself I’m afraid.
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But do be sure to look in the materials section here at the Church.
For lots of printable propaganda materials, that will help you in your
Ministries.
Heres a link to it….
http://www.venganza.org/materials/
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Best of luck to you!
Ramen
@Alchemist
I’m so there!
I did a little hit and run on the buggers, hope I got through to ‘em, but I didn’t stick around to find out. ;)
@Linguini Lass
Thanks for the info, but it doesn’t change the fact that he could roundhouse fat albert to another planet :)
RAmen
Pixely Dude!
Wazz up? I saw sunshine today!
It was outside, you catch any of it?
Thank you for advice, brothers and sisters!
Recently I had a vision of FSM who levitated behind my window for about 15 seconds and gave me clear signs to act uncompromisingly in order to spread his faith!
Here in Great Britain ( that’s England to Americans ) we are trying to piss off our beloved christian blood soaked leader Tony Bliar, buddy of Bush, by attempting to get our anti-war group’s remake of the song “War” by Ugly Rumors (now available from the Itunes store ) into the British down load charts.
All proceeds go to the anti-war movement.
Please spare a few coins to down load this song as if it hits number 1 in the Brit. charts it might cause Bliar to spare a thought for his god’s 10 commandments.
Especially that ” Thou shalt not kill” one.
Ramen brethren.
@PP
Nice to see you back in CoFSM. Care to join as in our excursions to the inpersuitofgod site? The xtians are ignoring my baiting in the ‘How to talk to an atheist friend’ thread. I sent an email to ask others to provide me some stepping stone post that I can repy to with a good deal of atheist hostility (but the email is slow to arrive). If the xtians are still all quiet by tomorrow and you or any other pirates can give me an excuse to vent some atheism then please do.
@ Peter - PETER!!!! Glad to see you posting. Been missing you!
Now, back to cleaning the house…boring! :)
@Petey
Hell yes! This is the first time I’ve seen grass in months.
RAmen
Hi, Rowdy!
Hi, Pixely! No doubt, I can’t see any grass yet, but the sun made me feel good!
Ramen!
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Hi, DPG, I’m trying to catch up around here, but no thanks.
I’ll yet you folks have at those xtians.
Give me a forum full of “Jeff Mills” and I’ll be all over it!
But, “Jon Mills” seems like a nice enough guy, are they related?
At any rate, I’ll let “Jon” help his flock, if he can.
Those people need their support systems, I won’t try to take that from them.
Bring on the “Jeffs”! And his Harvest! I’ll be there!
Ramen
I know this is unrelated but it *IS* related… there is a short Richard Dawkins interview on YouTube in which he mentions the Flying Spaghetti Monster!! Whoooooooo!! Here’s the link:
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wR6Mu5JULBo
So… Intelligent Design says that life is so complex that it can not have originated by chance? Only something as intelligent and complex as a God could have created it? So, who created this intelligent and complex God? Evolution?
I’m a bit late busting in, but I have a question for the martial artists that were talking earlier; how does that affect the age-old rivalry between pirates and ninja? Are you combining the two into some sort of Spec Ops pirate to serve the FSM’s will where it’s probably better that It not have a presence?
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Just wondering. Also wondering if the cursed ninja are doing similar things; learning to sail ships, swab decks, and sing songs in rounds.
@Arthur
I don’t even like ninjas.
No, I was just kidding, of course how can you not be kidding with Chuck Norris.
Watch an episode of Walker Texas Ranger and you’ll see what I mean.
RAmen
@Peter Popoff. Hi there. You ok?
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@ Pixel. Jump in :) I’m in for the long run I think. I know what PPoff Means about Jon seeming nice. The message isn’t though :(
To Pixel Pop… my next door neighbor (and friend :) was the spitting image of Chuck Norris. He was stopped on the street a couple times and asked for his autograph! Isn’t that cool? Unfortunately he’s in Pastafarian heaven right now… or maybe that’s not unfortunate because he’s probably having a grand old time at the Beer Volcano :) FSM bless him :)
Hi Pixel and PP - the Peter’s have returned Yay!
(As an interesting aside my neice called Sherlock “Peepees” when she first started to talk - teehee)
We’ll be more than a match for those ninjas - I am ready and waiting……
http://www.flickr.com/photos/67393998@N00/?savedsettings=408791469#photo408791469
@Everyone
A bleery-eyed good morning to all the pirates. How are things around here? I watched that Richard Dawkins interview… I thought he did a wonderful job. He seems like a sweet man too… very unassuming, which makes his message come across all the more strongly.
@DPG
Did you get any fodder yet for your atheism thread?
How’s the head Batman?
Shall we whisper?
I’ll send you a nice cup of tea :)
I must ask myself why that Catholic webpage wants to have so many rules. How do they rationalize it? If their religion were completely true, then it would win most debates with members of other religions, agnostics, and atheists. They wouldn’t need to control what ideas people are allowed to express. A true religion could survive letting its members encounter competing points of view. If they have to control the intellectual environment that their members are exposed to, then it logically follows that the ideas behind their religion is weaker than the competing points of view. Then again, I’m using “survival of the fittest” reasoning.
-Avatar of Reason
@Booty
Blurgh… vodka is an evil drink and I am never going to drink it again. Ever. Going to stick with friendly, non-hangover producing beer. Not nice to tease someone who feels like the earth’s rotation has drastically sped up…
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@Avatar of reason
I’m totally behind on the threads… what is this Catholic webpage you speak of? What rules? The Catholic church isn’t big on debating opposing views… I think it’s a traditional stance, but also there have been a lot of scandals involving the Catholic church over the past few years, so maybe they are tired of defending the un-defendable actions of some of their believers?
Good morning all you in yesterday :)
@Avatar of Reason
“Then again, I’m using “survival of the fittest†reasoning.”
Ooh…the xtians love that one Avatar…say it will make us all beat up old ladies and steal their handbags if they don’t stop us with their ” xtian morals”
Alchemist posted a link to a Catholic webpage in which people were supposed to discuss matters of faith. However, they made rules including “[when posting URLs] the person posting is responsible to make sure that the website(s) he/she is recommending is completely faithful to the Pope” and that “Any derogatory statements, statements against, or those which put any of the following in a bad light: Any member of the Holy Trinity, the Blessed Virgin Mary, any of the Saints, Angels, Pope Benedict XVI, any past pope, the papacy, the Catholic Church both Eastern and Western, any member(s) of the Clergy including Cardinals, Bishops, Priests, and Deacons, any member of a Religious Congregation will not be tolerated.” The URL was: http://www.ecatholic2000.com/chat/chat.shtml
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I feel that a true religion should able to have rational debates with people with conflicting points of view. If a religion is too weak to win a single debate, it is rather pathetic.
-Avatar of Reason
That last post was a reply to Batman. Sorry for not mentioning that earlier. It slipped my mind.
@WEnch Nikkiee
HA HA HA HA… love your sense of humor, miss seeing you more on these pages. =(
@anyone
Wow, those are some strict rules. Does anyone else see the irony that they include a rule stating that “bigotry of any sort will not be tolerated”, yet the expressly forbid chatters to hold any opinion or idea that does not line up perfectly with their own? Hmmmm… are any people here already trolling on that site? I don’t think I would last longer than one post on it.
@Batman: Way to point out the irony! Thanks!
@Wench Nikkiee: Very funny, but at the same time, painful. Whenever I hear the argument that without Christians there would be no working ethical code I shudder inside. I know you were just joking, but it reminds me of the fundies who actually believe that. Plus, I would never rob old ladies; even pirates have standards.
“Any derogatory statements, statements against, or those which put any of the following in a bad light: Any member of the Holy Trinity, the Blessed Virgin Mary”
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I guess they won’t let me link this there then:http://godlesswonder.blogspot.com/2005/11/top-10-list-reasons-mary-cant-stop.html
@Batman
Hi Batman :)
@Avatar of Reason
“but it reminds me of the fundies who actually believe that. Plus, I would never rob old ladies; even pirates have standards.”
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Yes Avatar…. the Wench was just being sarci of the fundies
Hmm….will try that link again
http://godlesswonder.blogspot.com/2005/11/top-10-list-reasons-mary-cant-stop.html
Yeah - there is no point in robbing old ladies, cos they don’t have any money left! Go for the youngsters every time ;)
Sorry Batman - as a veteran of many a mother of all hangovers I do entirely sympathise - if there was a devil, hangovers would be sent by them - but we can at least be safe in the knowledge that the great FSM himself suffered just as we do after he created the beer volcano - so we are not alone in our suffering ;)
No upset intended :)
Now go and get the post - your tea will have arrived ;)
@Booty
True Booty… true :)
@Booty
Ha ha ha ha… not upset!! Totally my own fault… if I was in your shoes, I would probably tease me too! Thanks for the tea… imaginary though it may be… very comforting! Feeling much better now actually, have eaten some cozy toast and had coffee. Almost back to human. =)
Blimey Booty.
Dress like a pirate. Think like a pirate.
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RAmen
Well, Catholic2000 sounds like it goose-steps right along with the Pope. Heil! What a lovely world it must be where no one disagrees with you.
@Marc McOar
A, bringing up the popes German, Hitler Jugend past.
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Q: do you know how Ratzinger got a job in the Vatican?
A: While in the Hitler jugend he thought that was way too liberal and left-leaning. He wanted something a bit more conservative. So he switched to the Catholic church.
@Marc McOar
I don’t know how these people don’t get bored with themselves… how dull to live in world where no one disagrees with you.
@Alchemist
I’m not as much for the going over there part of it, but if you lure some fundies here, I’ll give ‘em one hell of a fight.
@Wench Beth
That’s too bad. Unless he was an ass, which brings up the question why are you friends with an ass. Did he have a mean roundhouse kick?
@Booty
I’ve been here. I just couldn’t take the lag from the “Yeah, I know it’s satire” thread so I stopped posting.
RAmen
To Pixel Pop… my Chuck Norris look-alike friend wasn’t an ass, but I can definitely say that I am friends with a couple asses!!!
I like this site…
I have a question for you fsm’ers
You think God is nothing more than an imaginary idea, right?
Aristotle wrote
“Men create gods after their own image, not only with regard to their form but with regard to their mode of life.”
So, I totally agree people make shit up… but doesn’t the idea of a “first cause” make sense?
The idea that all thing’s share a “source”, that everything, the universe and life came from…
You have to admit that big bang’s, apemen, and magic soup sound just as silly as flying spaghetti monsters
Seriously, flying spaghetti monster vs. Magic Soup
Magic soup randomly spews out genetic information zillions of years ago, ultimately leading to this forum and spaghetti monster satire….
Let’s recap
A giant explosion happens (never mind the fact that there must already be something in existence for something to explode)
Universe is made, ignoring the fact that galaxies spiral in un-uniform manners, and that the universe we live in remains a fairly constant tempature all across it
(the horizon problem)
Some how, despite all odds, magic soup saves the day!
Out comes tony little organisims, which ultimately become your dog fido, a pine tree, freaken hippo’s, horses, whales, bats…
All sorts of shit…
Here’s a question…
Why in the hell would chaos produce all this shit? even given an “eternity” to accomplish all these aimless objectives, chaos never produces information…
Is this proof for the FSM? no, but it sure is hell isn’t proof for Magic Soup…
To Bob_the_goth_kid… you raise some very good points and I toast you with my bottle of rum, but I’m afraid you’ve missed the point entirely, dear lad. We *HAVE* proof for the FSM: a graph.
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Now “Magic Soup”; that’s another can of worms entirely. The FSM made the Big Bang to happen, the FSM invented the recipe for the magic soup, and the FSM has controlled our perception of all this since the beginning of time.
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And even if you get into string theory, alternate universes, fluidic space (the realm of species 8472) — which could all explain how an explosion could occur with nothing being there to explode — the FSM has created all these possibilities and given us the brain power to confuse ourselves totally with them.
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So I suggest, humbly, that you join us — the group with PROOF of our maker’s existence — and grab an ale. The stripper show is about to begin! RAmen to you.
@ Bob the Goth Kid:
“So, I totally agree people make shit up… but doesn’t the idea of a “first cause†make sense?”
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Just because you’d think something makes sense doesn’t mean that’s how it is. Think about your average atom; comprised almost entirely of empty space. If you were to shrink to the size of an electron and get shot through the Earth, you MIGHT bump into a couple of other particle on the whole trip. Keep in mind this is while shooting through dense solids. Sometimes fact can be stranger than fiction.
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“You have to admit that big bang’s, apemen, and magic soup sound just as silly as flying spaghetti monsters”
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No we don’t, although I’m curious about this Magic Soup; is it a side dish to His Noodliness?
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“Seriously, flying spaghetti monster vs. Magic Soup”
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Battle to the death?
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“Magic soup randomly spews out genetic information zillions of years ago, ultimately leading to this forum and spaghetti monster satire….”
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And this is where I want to cry. Whoever taught you the basic ideas of evolution (and abiogenesis, which you seem to be referring to here) either needs to explain it to you again, or needs someone to explain it to them. You’re right on one count; the primordial ooze (the name for your “magic soup” that takes it from Narnia to Earth) randomly spewing about genetic information does sound absurd. Fortunately, no respectable scientist is claiming this. The basic science you’re referring to is pre-biology, since what you’re talking about is nonliving. Self-replicating molecules use up resources to create more of themselves into chains; some of the molecules will be better suited to this task than others (for whatever reason, just keep in mind that the factors are chemical reactions instead of evolutionary pressures) and they will grow to outnumber their less-fit “brethren”. As these molecules manage to grow more and more complex (with the changing environment of Earth allowing new elements to combine into different compounds), eventually this leads to the assembling of proteins and then amino acids, the “building blocks of life”. From the protolife we have here, evolution as we understand it can start phasing in to take over the replication (since we now have genetic material to work with). I cannot stress enough, however, that this process is not random (I might go over that in more detail later; I’ve had 1 hour of sleep since Friday morning and I don’t know how wide my attention span is right now).
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“A giant explosion happens (never mind the fact that there must already be something in existence for something to explode)”
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Law of Conservation of Mass-Energy: matter and energy can neither be created or destroyed, they can only change forms. Just because the universe didn’t exist as we know it doesn’t mean that the matter wasn’t there. The only people claiming the “something from nothing” idea are theists. Science leans more towards the “it’s always been there” thing. If you can disprove this law, however, I imagine there’s a Nobel in it for you, since that will lead to (off the top of my head) unlimited energy, and answer to the trash problem, feeding the hungry, creation of anything one wants, etc. I don’t think even a Nobel would be worthy of such an accomplishment, actually.
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“Universe is made, ignoring the fact that galaxies spiral in un-uniform manners, and that the universe we live in remains a fairly constant tempature all across it
(the horizon problem)”
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Maybe I’m just being ignorant, but what do these have to do with keeping life from forming?
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“Some how, despite all odds, magic soup saves the day!”
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Again, your reference to it as “Magic Soup” continues to show your lack of understanding of the subject. Moving on…
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“Why in the hell would chaos produce all this shit? even given an “eternity†to accomplish all these aimless objectives, chaos never produces information…”
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Ok, I thought I’d have to come back to the chaos question. *gets drink of water before ranting* As I mentioned before, I cannot stress enough that the idea of evolution being in any way “random” is a lie propagated by those who either don’t understand the theory (and are making an honest mistake) and those who are actively fighting it (and intentionally and knowingly spreading lies). If anything, evolution is the antithesis of randomness; every environmental and genetic factor has a part to play in the process. The only element of randomness in the sense you’re thinking of (and this is where people get thrown off) are mutations, which are admittedly random. However, the only thing about them that’s random is their occurrence. Whether or not the mutation is passed on is based on how successful the organism is (often due to the mutation); less successful mutations will die out, and more successful ones will be passed on to future progeny and more of the species will have this advantageous difference; nothing random there. Either it works and stays, or it doesn’t and goes. Natural selection is a meticulous process of trial and error on a grand scale, and this process helps to increase the survival of both the organisms individually and as a species (as the traits are passed to more of the population).
/rant
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“Is this proof for the FSM? no, but it sure is hell isn’t proof for Magic Soup… ”
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No, this isn’t proof for the FSM; we have LOADS of proofs in other areas that don’t rely on a complete misunderstanding of the world we live in.
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On a completely random note, I think that on average, I have the longest single posts now, since this is my second gigantic post and I’m not yet what I’d consider a regular poster.
Dammit, Wench Beth had a TOTALLY better reply than me.
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*passes out*
Nice one Arthur! Very well written and concise.
And Hi there! Welcome aboard! I missed your other long post - care to tell me where to look?
@ Bob the Goth Kid - please, I thought Goth’s knew more about questioning the lies other people try to force on you? Still, I suppose there is always a few who are just in it for the cool black clothes and looking miserable.
Seriously, I know that Goth’s are too cool to study, but you really need to do a little bit of research before you spout crap at people.
I am a nurse, and believe me, human bodies are VERY random and chaotic! If God designed them he did a really crap job - a lot of them are a total frigging disaster!
I wouldn’t trust him to change a lightbulb!
Now, if, like us, you accept that life was formed after a heavy night at the beer volcano, and the FSM was a tad drunk and made a bit of a mess of it, it makes a lot more sense, and, unlike the judeo-christian God, our God is friendly, fun and non-judgemental - I know who I’d rather believe in.
RAmen.
@Arthur:
Nice rant.
@ Booty
Finally dug it up; thank FSM for a search feature on the browser (couldn’t remember where I posted it). It’s not as long as this one, but it still struck me as being longer than normal (which I commented on there as well). http://www.venganza.org/2007/01/31/army.htm#comments About 1/3 down the scrollbar on my computer
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@ The rest of you
Thank ye. *blushes*
Thanks Arthur!
Much obliged. :)
*scurries off to have a look*
@Arthur
I second the previous responses to your post :) A big RAmen Arthur :) I’m off following Booty to the other one too.
Again RAmen
Welcome Arthur,
We will shortly commandeer a pirate fleet. The plan is to have a science vessel in it. Those on board will create biological weapons of mass destruction. For instance, we have a fast-progressing project to manipulate the DNA of a virus so that it will make people vomit whenever they eat even the smallest quantity of an unclean, unholy dish (like that most evil of menu inventions ever visited upon mankind by Satan: rice!). Care to join the science vessel?
@Arthur,
A small extra thought to convince you: one of everyones favourite wenches, Nikkiee, is on it too!
@DPG. I warned you about those mushrooms didn’t I! I distinctly remember saying “red with white warts! Not a good idea!”
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Ricin cake anyone :)
@Alchemist
Relax, I wasn’t trying to steal your wench when talking to Nikkiee!
@ DutchPastaGuy
Yeah, at the moment I’m in the process of changing majors from computer science to biology; all the lovely rants you’ve seen (and will see in the near future) are completely from reading I’ve done in my spare time with books I bought with my own money. There’s more job opportunities in compsci, but it’s just so boring now…
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Looking at becoming a bio professor, actually. It’s a long road there, but I’m already a decent teacher (American Red Cross training) and I think I’m pretty good at explaining complex scientific ideas in ways people can understand them.
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If someone wants a SERIOUSLY long read, my name should have a link to my Myspace page; one of my more recent blogs (”Ownage” or something) has 30+ pages of a biology/general atheism vs Creationism debate I had with a troll in the A&A group. If you’ve got like an hour to kill then go check it out.
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*goes to check the Blackbeard ship thing, since it’s local*
Correction: upon checking, the blog title is “Longest Blog Ever”. The working title was “Ownage”. :-D
@DPG - Good thing too! Otherwise it would be frying pans at dawn :)
@DPG - are you inviting Arthur to join our non-existant world domination conspiracy?
Cos , if you are I think he may have missed the hint!
If you aren’t, nevermind, as you were….
And while I am at it, can anyone tell me why alcohol is so bloody fattening? S’not fair!
@Alchemist
AHHHRG!! FSM have mercy on me, not the frying pans! I repent. I confess al my sins. Especially since you’ve probably become resistant to frying pan blows by now. Skulls evolve too, don’t they?
@Arthur
I may take time to read it, I’m not allergic to lengthy posts.
Computer skills can be enormously valuable in a fields like genetics, right? I do computational materials science and some of the people who take away the biggest slices of supercomputer time from me have been biologists.
@DPG Hahahahaha
“…Skulls evolve too, don’t they?…” Usually. Not too sure about the goo inside mine though =))
@Alchemist
“Not too sure about the goo inside mine though =))”
Put your trust in the FSM. He is the never-fading light that will guide you, even when all around you there is nothing but darkness. Never dispair, or let yourself be tempted into eating rice. No matter how hungry your soul is. When Satan tries to lure you with fried rice with spices or tasty sweeteners sprinkled on top, just say ‘Ha, I will not be tempted, for the FSM is my Saviour, and thanks to His great mercy, for He is mercifull indeed, my mind will always be filled with the richest spiritul menu, which is never overcooked or too salty’. It is pure bliss to be touched by His noodly appendages!
RAmen.
@Booty Mar 4th, 2007 at 2:17 am “I am a nurse, and believe me, human bodies are VERY random and chaotic! If God designed them he did a really crap job - a lot of them are a total frigging disaster! I wouldn’t trust him to change a lightbulb!”
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I LIKE this… The very first time I heard (actually read) about ID, was in an article in “Le Canard Enchaîné”, and the author’s traditional satirical conclusion was something in the line of: “If the actual U.S. president has also been designed by this Intelligent Designer, that gives a pretty poor idea of that Designer!” About to use the expression “ID” in an e-mail, I had this article very vaguely in mind. Looking it up brought me at Wikipedia, and there was (is) line about a “counter-theory”, something called Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster… Strange way to finally meet a bunch of nice, intelligent people, harrassed sometimes by a couple of loudmothed fundie-type café-reasoners… Didn’t know the word “Wench” before that… now it happens to slip into my daily conversation… hahahahaaaargh!
@ DPG
I know how to use a computer pretty well; the courses I’m taking are aimed at programming computers, not using them. It wouldn’t help me use them any better really, except in knowing how the computer work (and it wouldn’t be a very noticeable improvement).
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Why is the conspiracy only non-existent? :-D
Alchemist and Wench Nikkiee, are you guys dating? Sorry to be nosy but it’s a small ship and I WANNA KNOW!
‘The banana an athiests nightmare!’
Please view : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aiZYyN6Yp68
I feel that this is absolute evidence of the existance of ‘His Noodlyness’ and his creation of everything and a banana. Eventhough the speakers seem to believe in their ignorance that it is some lesser known heathen deity was responsible. I think it is our moral duty to call around to their house about teatime and tell them the good news.
Yarrr to ye all
@ Wench Beth & Arthur
Apart from content - I feel I must praise your tone! You’re meeting Bob the Goth with the same respect I would like too see from fundies, atheist, pastafarians, regular squarepants et al. Do unto others etc.. wich relates to next paragraph.
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@ Wench Nikkiee, Batman & Avatar
I’m not up there with Arthur yet when it comes to knowledge of biology and pedagogic skills - but I have a thought regarding atheist messing up old ladies and their blue hair. I didn’t think survival of the fittest related to just one singular individual - but to groups and species. Hitting an old lady will not promote the fittest - only if we take care of each other humans will we survive as species in the long run. The atheist standpoint means also that we need to take care of our complete enviroment - for the fittest to survive they better make sure they’re not depleting their resources, polluting air and water, killing of important elements in the biological system.
Survival of the fittest therefore means - take care of the young because they can serve your species later on - and be nice to the old lady because she can give you candy on halloween.
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S
Intelligent Design vs. Evloution
Why must they fight?
I believe in both.
God guided Evolution.
or maybe the FSM did.
I dunno.
RAmen.
@nowis
“Apart from content - I feel I must praise your tone! You’re meeting Bob the Goth with the same respect I would like too see from fundies, atheist, pastafarians, regular squarepants et al.”
Yeah, when discussing such matters with people who just seem genuinely confused on the issues (especially with the name Goth KID) then I try to keep my sarcasm down to a 4:1 ratio of fact to mockery. If the issue is pressed too much and they take it too far, however, those ratios might start to slip closer to the 2:1 ratio.
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“I’m not up there with Arthur yet when it comes to knowledge of biology and pedagogic skills”
*blush* Aw, thanks!
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There are a few points with your survival of the fittest part that sound contradictory, but I’ll try to explain them as best I can (they do mesh together at the end, so bear with me).
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“but I have a thought regarding atheist messing up old ladies and their blue hair. I didn’t think survival of the fittest related to just one singular individual - but to groups and species.”
In regards to the survival of the fittest referring to individuals and populations, it’s both; the individual organisms will survive varying lengths of time and reproduce a different number of times depending on their level of fitness to their environment (for those who missed it, “fitness” doesn’t mean “strength” here, since it seems pretty clear that the mentally advanced humans took over the world instead of, say, gorillas and bears). However, when a fit individual survives longer than the lesser fit among the population, those more capable genes are passed down to more progeny (animals who live longer have more kids) and eventually that spreads throughout the population. So natural selection applies to both.
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“Hitting an old lady will not promote the fittest - only if we take care of each other humans will we survive as species in the long run.”
Not only will not hitting an old lady fail to promote the fitness of a population, but even spending extra resources and time to help her can benefit a group of people. If you have x number of organisms in a group who are fighting fit, and one old lady, it would seem that the chain is only as strong as the weakest link; the old lady might not be able to contribute much to hunting or gathering, may have problems helping around the campsite of early humans, needs someone to get food for her (by virtue of being unable to get it herself), and may even need assistance in escaping if something goes wrong at the camp. All these extra resources being given to a single individual would seem bad for the group. However, she still can provide help for the group; the simplest example is that of caring for the young in the group. Now instead of individual father and mother sets watching over their kids and tying up that many more resources (since they can’t babysit and hunt/forage/defend/etc.), you have one group member watching over the children of a whole group, allowing more group members to take part in more obviously “useful” activities (like those mentioned before). Other examples abound, but I’m already getting a long-post rep so I’ll move on.
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“The atheist standpoint means also that we need to take care of our complete enviroment - for the fittest to survive they better make sure they’re not depleting their resources, polluting air and water, killing of important elements in the biological system.”
I feel the need to point out that what you’re talking about is a humanist standpoint; as hard as it is to separate sometimes (since a lot of the ideas are tied together), those don’t really fall under the “atheist standpoint”, which in its entirety consists of “I have no belief in deities”. Humanistic morals and values are those derived from human-based sources and generally take the mindset of “humans are the cause of most of our problems, so it stands to reasons that humans are the solution to them as well”, as opposed to “God will help us through this!”. Look to thyself in times of need on a planetary scale. Also (on a personal note), the environmental movement can be taken too far sometimes; part of the reason we’ve so completely conquered the globe on the macro organismic scale (micro organisms still kick our asses on a regular basis) is our ability to affect our surroundings so completely; the ability to change your environment to suit your needs instead of the other way around is pretty unique in the animal kingdom. I agree that steps need to be taken to preserve the environment and fix what damage we’ve caused it, but extremists of any mindset cause more problems than they solve; this extends to environmentalists just as much as the fundamental religious types.
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/rant again
@Arthur
De nada - you’re just enforcing my early impression. I also like to dish out sarcasm to the left and right - but almost never on the internet where it’s easier to misinterpret.
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I don’t think my head is as filled with contradictions as my last post - it’s more the case of “I better be working than giving a complete review of my mind on Venganza”. When it comes to survival of the fittest - individuals, groups, species - of course they’re all in there - I just didn’t bother to extemporate. When it comes to the misconception of “strength” being “fitness” - I belive that it is far to widespread. If more people understood that distinction I think ID would have a harder time getting it’s message through.
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The granny example of being “fit” is one of my favorite examples - not many other species have as many generations living at the same time as humans. The nursing granny can free other resources benefitting the group. Human “fitness” is of course mainly positioned in our brain..
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You’re completely right - I muddled up atheism and humanism there a bit. Thank you for understanding why. I took the route via atheism to evolution to survival of the fittest to humanism - so it’s not a direct jump though. Most atheist believe in ” survival of the fittest” - and in order to survive one important factor is to take better care of our enviroment. As you say, some “enviromentalists” go to far - becoming a sort of “fundie” if I may say so. Taking care of the enviroment is not living in caves eating nuts - it’s making use of progress, technology, knowledge etc to make things work.
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When it comes to humanism and moral I will have to come back to you later - I just started reading some research regarding moral as a product of evolution/survival of the fittest. Many say that moral is a learned trait in a social context, but now some studies are proving.. well, what I belive we just discussed in the “hitting old lady”-scenario above…
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S
@nowis
“When it comes to humanism and moral I will have to come back to you later - I just started reading some research regarding moral as a product of evolution/survival of the fittest. Many say that moral is a learned trait in a social context, but now some studies are proving.. well, what I belive we just discussed in the “hitting old ladyâ€-scenario above…”
I don’t think these are even recent studies; it’s a pretty well accepted idea these days that societies undergo a similar natural selection to their individual members; a tribe of people that works together in times of need will do better than a tribe of people who work only with themselves. Stealing from one another causes lack of trust within groups and will lead to problems working together in the future, and may lead to violence within the group. I think the things like that are called “memes”; individuals pass genes through the species, and societies pass memes among themselves. Besides that they work on the same principles; successful memes lead to successful cultures that thrive more and spread further, while unsuccessful memes lead to unsuccessful cultures that die out more quickly. Dawkins has some great stuff on memes if you’re interested. Morality is a direct result of evolution, just not quite in the way one is used to thinking about it. The idea that morals can only come from God is why atheists have such a bad reputation in matters of ethics, despite that on average we have better morals than those who claim Christianity.
@ Arthur
Yeah, I don’t think it’s a new theory - it’s just some newer research. But I haven’t read much about morals or memes in regards to natural selection here on venganza earlier - I thought that it would have been a valid answer to those fundies who claim only god dishes out moral. That and then the classic map showing how more crime is commited in countries with religious leadership.
we’ve been round this argument before. i still fail to see how a believer who has their moral code imposed on them under threat of dire consequences can possibly cliam to have better morals than a pastafarian who follows a moral code because they’ve thought about it and decided it’s better to be that way…
Few things.
The FSM is not a version of intelligent design, its ‘unintelligent’ or ‘very drunk’ design. As the FSM while all knowing and all powerful is rarely sober, and yes the FSM can drink enough that someone all powerful can get drunk
On Evolution
1) Beginning of life, this is not actually covered by evolution which has a starting point of basic life. There are theories on how life begins but they are not related to evolution as such. There is overwhelming evidence of evolution /noodle interaction life itself is still up for discussion
2) Pretty similar with the origins of the universe. Most versions of the big bang fail to be able to discuss the early nano-seconds of the universe. You can call it ‘god’, I prefer more work on quantum theory and relativity
Writing from Paris, missing London
Jon
@ Arthur,
Instead of becoming a biology professer, did you ever consider becoming a teacher? A good teacher, who makes the subject easy to understand can make all the difference to young minds which could otherwise be drawn to the ID hypothesis by the comforting security blanket of religion.
Teachers are one of the most valuable resources on the planet. They change lives, literally. They should all be given raises… as long as they agree to include the teachings of the FSM in their religion classes and add His Noodly Name to the Pledge of Allegiance.
Good teachers are a valuable resourse, bad and condesending ones can make you hate the subject, I had a brilliant biology teacher and always paid her attention, but even though I was good at english, that teacher was such a condesending bitch it was the only class I ever skipped (it was impossible to leave my school during the day without walking by the principles window so we had to just go hide),
in the leaving cert. my best subject was biology and worst was english, surrise surprise
I’ve never been so offended in my life. How dare they say that the FSM is merely a satirical response to intelligent design.
THE FSM DOES EXIST AND IS RESPONSIBLE FOR LIFE!!!!!!
They’re christians and don’t know any better, they’ve been lied to their whole lives, poor things
Ah, i love you guys, im gonna start posting here. FSM forever, RAmen.
@Banjo
Welcome to the Church of the FSM. As a new convert, may you be touched by his noodly appendages.
RAmen
Hi, I’m a new pastafarian, i have just been pastafied,
let’s all of us join my brothers in spreading the truth.
whoever has done this, is a freakin genius.
Welcome to you too Pastafarian. Indeed, spread the word to all your friends!
Is anything new in Pastafarian land? Was out last night, can’t tell what all I missed.
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=)
Check it, im not going to claim the “FSM” as my god or anything, but the concept is genius and i do agree that the pastafarian beliefe is just as valid as any other based on the true absence of a better explanation, so respect to its profit and any followers, there is no way to discredit what you say and I think “The Man” hates you just as much as they do any other minority, maybe more…
@Tagliatellius, i am a black belt in origami too!
I summon paper minions that kill whoever I wish!
may his noodly appendages touch your heart
raMEN
you guys are the dumbist fuckers on the goddamn planet, r u smoking crack, if i saw a giant plate of spagetti, id fucking eat it u dumb basterds, WHAT THE HELL IS UR PROBLEM, i mean come on, u worship spagetti, ur lucky i dont come over to all of ur houses and kick all of ur asses, u spaggiti lovin faggots, i mean, mormons are smarter than u, and i hate mormons, i hope u get bombed by osama bin laden, and i hope u “pastafarians” all get cancer, ur all stupid, gay, mammas boys, who probably whack off three times an hour u fuck tards.
love, ur moms lover
p.s. ur all gay!!!!!
Hi your moms asshole.
By jove I think you might be my moms asshole, same thing anyway.
The only thing that comes out is shit.
Good job! your moms asshole!
Ramen
but shit isnt what goes into her ass my dick does bitch
Why do ID supporters argue the the world is too complex to have happened by chance? Isn’t equally as likely as some great all-powerful being appearing from nothing? You might as well say that the intelligent designer had an intelligent designer…..
Nice cartoon.
P.S. @your moms asshole
No wonder your name is asshole…
Spagatelli, that is what ID is, it’s false, but people who follow religion don’t usually change their beliefs. ID is religion and therefore is illegal, thanks to my favorite amendment of my favorite document the first amendment to the constitution and the establishment clause. To all religion, and pseudo science practicers or creationists disguised, suck my constitutionally protected secular balls.
-J.T.S.