I just found this article in the San Luis Obispo Tribune discussing whether or not a religion class should be allowed in school.
The Atascadero school board voted Tuesday night to reconsider a controversial resolution allowing students to attend a church class during school hours.
And then farther down …
Santa Margarita lawyer Michael Blank offered a different viewpoint. “There’s a lot of cults and sex out there that may be unattractive to this board,” he said.
He asked school board members how they would react if the “Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster,” a parody religion, wanted to offer a class for students.
I’m not sure which category we fall into. Probably cults.
My view is that religion classes should be allowed in school but that they shouldn’t be taught by any member of that particular religion. Unless we’re talking about Pastafarianism, in which case the teacher should be a devout Believer, dressed in Pirate Regalia.
Here’s the link
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@ Jonno, no not you wrong place, Doh!
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@ Iron Gill Kidd again, sorry for the additional on this but.
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Your knowledge is 100% and I stand corrected.
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The 22nd Amendment, limiting to two the number of terms a president may serve, was ratified on February 27, 1951.
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Does add to what I have said elsewhere; that American constituion while revered is not in the same vein as a religion as religious scripture is fixed and immutable, the US constitution has a mechanism and a willingness to change, ammend.
Not a surprise giving those who created it were closer to science than they were to religion, and science is always open to considering new evidence and replacing old thinking with new.
No religion has this ability.
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I’m fully aware the US constitution can be changed but I still think there is a danger is revering (is that a word?) any document. Supreme court judges from speaking to many Americans seem to come across as priests?.
I think it comes down to the different way Brits and Americans see the formation of liberal democracies. In my opinion they were formed by evolution over 1000’s of years with no single person/event dominating its creation while Americans think in terms of freedom coming from revolution.
I personally think American society formed in exactly the same way slowly.
Sorry for generalising but sometimes its needed to discuss large topics
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@ Privateer—”No religion has this ability.”
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You mean, except Pastafarianism, of course. ;)
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RAmen
MJK
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@ Jonno Revering
Admiring and respecting and yes it is a word
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Never apologise for debate, it’s exactly what this site needs to be here for.
It’s often said the two subjects you must never bring up in the pub are religion or politics.
Maybe it’s just that even with broadband you won’t get a bottle in the face or a chair wrapped around your head but his place seems to be a haven for it.
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Agree about the American short term view of history, they have a yound society and in someways it is still finding it’s feet. They did have the advantage of starting with a clean sheet of paper, and those below John Hancock tried to avoid the flaws of the “old world”, but as you say evolution intervenes.
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Lets face it one of the most revered national symbols in America, the statue of Liberty, that most American of ladies; whisper it, she’s actually French.
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@ Captain Mad John Kidd “No religion has this ability.â€
Too true
Noodles can be prepared in a multitude of different ways and with an infinite variety of sauces.
Such is the wisdom that experimentation is not only accepted it is encouraged
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Thus we are blessed.
RAmen
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@ Jonno
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The judge presiding over the Kitzmiller vs. Dover trial, a Christian, was able to discern that ID was in fact creationism, not science, and therefore not fit to be taught in the science classroom, so I might have to disagree with you on that one.
That said, as an ex-pat Brit living in the States, your second comment about the formation of liberal democracies is spot on. Unfortunately, most Americans I know are apathetic towards politics and could give a toss. American society is like a teenager, still trying to discover it’s identity, but would rather go back to bed than go to class. But that’s just my experience.
RAmen
MJK
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@ Captain MJK
American society is like a teenager..like it!
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They are however the most vehemently patriotic nation, so you be careful out there.
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And are you suffering from insomnia?
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@Jonno
Yes I do realise that you were apologising for the generalisation and not the debate.
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If you go there first and have steam come out of your ears, take some timeout
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Chill, let the waves of calm wash over you.
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Failing that count up to 10, then you can let rip, I’m a big boy I can take it
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@Privateer- That rule about the two things you should not bring up also applies to school. Last election you could hear yelling matches every day.
@Iron Gill Kid- AH! I am so jealous! I’ll be short for that election by 6 months. Sooooo. Frusterating. Specially since I actually really want either Hillary or Obama for prez.
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This is why I love this site! Actual debate – intellectual and well-thought.
@ Privateer: “It would be better if every ballot had an extra option “None of the Aboveâ€, then the day would dawn “when none of the above†got more votes than the other candidates.” This is a really great idea. I can only hope that one day it happens. Haven’t kept up much with British politics in the last 20 years, but I can tell you that here in the US we are constantly choosing the least of the evils.
@ CMJK: “Americans I know are apathetic towards politics and could give a toss. American society is like a teenager, still trying to discover it’s identity, but would rather go back to bed than go to class.” As a society, we are very lazy. We have some really accompished individuals, but overall your point is very valid.
@ everyone – about the American short term view of history – I once heard that the difference between the Americans and the British is that Americans think 100 years is a long time and the British think 100 miles is a long way!
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@Privateer—Actually, that’d be interesting. It’d send a message that people were fed up with politics as is, if nothing else. To be honest, I think the way American gov’ is set up IS a pretty good system; obviously no where near perfect, but like you said, there’s the chance to change it to make it better.
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@Dread Wench L’TUAE—Ahh, that sucks! I’m really glad I have a chance to vote in an election this important. Right now I’d say that if the election was tomorrow I’d vote for Obama, but I really don’t know as much about him as I’d like. Not a fan of Hilary, but that’s a whole ‘nother debate, haha.
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@CMJK- that teenager line was dead on! And rather true. *cough*….
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People generally don’t vote when they are wait for it ‘happy’.
If people have jobs, plasma tv’s and feel safe they generally won’t bother voting, when they are afraid, hungry and only have old CRT TV’s they get involved in politics.
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@ Jonno People don’t vote if they are happy.
Another generalisation?
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It may have more to do with upbringing, I blame the parents.
My wife always votes, every chance. Not that she’s unhappy although living with me she has every right to be! She follows her parental lead.
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I have only ever voted once, and that was on a referendum to return politics as a way forward and remove the vacuum which was being filled by terrorist violence.
Sadly since then the polititians elected to carryout this work have proven themselves unworthy bordering on criminally useless.
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So I would say a good many people vote because of parental encouragement.
Others will only vote if there is an issue that they feel strongly about.
The selection of one egotistical ass-hole over another may not provide enough impetus to get these “disenchanteds” into the polling booth.
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I shall try to rephrase people dont vote if the are happy
‘Electoral turnout tend to be lower when there is a lack of controversial issues’. US had a record turnout in their last elections I suspect due to fear, fear of terror, fear of god, fear of the opposition’
I still think the the first way I said it is more to the point :)
By the way you Privateer you werent in a chat room last night run by the rational response squad last night as I assume you are Irish/British and remind me of someone I spoke to there?
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@Jonno
I am as you rightly describe a British pasport holder who was brought up in Northern Ireland and no I was not in a chat room last night. But we Norn Irn people all tend to be of a similar cut, fairly serious with a strongly sarcastic sense of humour and most people can’t tell when one slips into the other.
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While I am painfully cynical about politics and in particular polititians that is probably as a result of living through period of terrorist unrest. Where some polititians did more to fan the flames than quench them (in fairness not all, but the liberal voices have since been quietened).
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The Good Friday Agreement poll in NI proved your point perfectly, it was the biggest percentage turn out in any national polling event anywhere. When presented with an issue they really cared about even apathetic cynics like me made the effort.
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Having witnessed close hand other regimes, I believe what is discussed here is proof that democracy is as close to a perfect system of government any of us are ever likely to see. Greeks eh good ideas, funny alphabet.
At least we are free to openly air our opinions, without fear of persecution or even death.
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It is the personalities that involve themselves with the political system that so often leave me cold.
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Another problem with getting people to vote in the US (I don’t know how things are written up in other countries – Privateer, maybe you have insight here) is that the referendums or “questions” are so carefully phrased to be confusing. The real effect of the “question” is obfuscated under layers of double-speak. It’s hard to unwind it all…and given that people are basically lazy, it’s easy for them to give up.
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@ Rowdy Wench
We have even bigger problems after the event, if there is even a hint of ambiguity in the wording one party or another will put their interpretation on it and another month of debate begins again with nothing done.
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Funny thing though; when the politicos meet to try to find agreement, it always takes place in a 5 star hotel in some far flung destination, usually with a good golf course.
Why can’t they just use one of the numerous empty government office buildings locally.
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@ Privateer – It seems that politicians are alike no matter where they are from. Ours are always yelling at each other over some spending debacle, but all of them are guilty of greed. Sometimes I’m glad when they get nothing done, considering how awful some of the legislation is for the country.
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@ Rowdt Wench
I’ve just had a e-mail from 10 Downing Street, thanking me for my partition in an on-line petition etc etc
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Read between the lines as a true cynic must and the overriding impression is..
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Yes we hear you but why would we listen, we are going to do it anyway but as we allowed you to petition you probably feel better about the whole system and the tax increase that will be winging your way.
But don’t worry your political leaders will be OK we can afford to get our ill-gotten gains into a nice tax haven; that’s why we held onto Gibraltar (Gibraltar being our financial equivelant of the Caymans)
Please do not reply to this e-mail as you will only be ignored, again!
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As I said before I am a hopeless cynic
I think Jonno wants to believe in the system, suspect that may make him a hopeful cynic.
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@All
I actually believe in a strong elected goverment (with some controls mainly on the speed of change) I am in no way a fan of referendums, politics by focus group or petition.
If you don’t like a goverment you sack it at a election but within reason between those times they should have a free reign. Not that’s not perfect, yes there is a chance you won’t get another election but that danger is far less than running a country via tabloid (foreign owned media)
Blair’s goverment was obviously anti-car when he was elected (and in this I support him but if others don’t there is a chance to get rid of him in 2 years time).
The system stinks (it gives stupid religious people the vote :), but I would rather have stupid people voting than have the state decided who was intelligent :)
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@ Privateer – Kind of makes you feel like they are saying “Now run along you silly little voter, and leave us alone”. Urgh…annoying that they are so egotistical. I am married to a true cynic (and actually, a hopeless one too, really), so your arguments look similar to his!
I’m out for a few days…got responsibilities to take care of – dammit! Actually, I will have the opportunity to “influence” the minds of a group of teenaged girls…mwahahaha!
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Hi Rowdy Wench,
I haven’t talked to you much here.
But I’ve read your Comments, and would like to invite you to a yahoo group we have, I think there’s about 18 of us regulars in it, if interested, email me at….
notchemung@gmail.com.
And I will send you an invite.
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@ Peter – Had a few minutes to check back. I am honored by your invitation. I have written down your e-mail address because by the time I get back it will be hard to find your post! I don’t know how much time I could devote to a separate group, but would like to participate as much as possible. I’ll be in touch in a few days. Thanks!
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The voting thing is very true, many Americans don’t care what goes on at a national level as long as they’ve got thier own niche nicely place. I guess that’s one problem sometimes with living in so large a country, local areas get thier stuff done and then isolate themselves.
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Yeah…I think a lot of the problem with voting here in the US is the utter apathy of people. As long as they get theirs…But also, from what I understand once people are registered they tend to vote–there are just a lot of people not registered for whatever reason…new to the country, too lazy to bother, whatever. I think democracy is the best shot at gov’ we’ve got, but it’d be nice if more people bothered to get involved in it!
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@ Rowdy Wench
I know this may be a little too late but;
did you notice that Peter Popoff’s invite came very soon after your mention of influencing teenage girls.
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hmm, didn’t know it was that sort of forum ( only kiddding PeterP )
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@Jonno Blair and anti-car
I would support him too if I thought their was intent to offer a sensible alternative.
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Visit other European countries and see how their public transport works compared to ours. We need a proper cohesive and sensible public transport network.
Believe me I have tested it, from airport to my house 25 minutes by car, public transport 2 hours and 3 seperate journeys. I was cream crackered and still had a 15 minutes walk from the train station.
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Unfortunately the Blair govt has not evolved it has devolved into its lowest common denominator, the tax man. They will talk environment and congestion, in the end they will cure the countries ills by taxing the car almost off the road.
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With the highest fuel tax bills in Europe already every mile is heavily enough taxed as it is.
Strange that for a “socialist” govt they will remove the freedom that personal transport gives to the individual, the roads should be nice and quiet for the wealthy who can still afford to use them
And the government ministers won’t need a special lane like they have in Moscow
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Privateer Feb 23rd, 2007 at 9:24 am
@ Rowdy Wench
I know this may be a little too late but;
did you notice that Peter Popoff’s invite came very soon after your mention of influencing teenage girls.
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hmm, didn’t know it was that sort of forum ( only kiddding PeterP )
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Excuse me?
Who were you before you changed your name?
I stand on my own merit here.
Like someone said, it’s all in the threads here.
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@Privateer
Aren’t any easy answers to transportation issues . I actually think it goes further (no pun) than how do I go from A to Z, it involves why I am at A and why I need to go to Z.
Continental Europeans tend to live in smaller houses usually flats and hence can live a lot nearer to work.. For example people actually live in Paris as opposed to just the surburbs in London
Public transport is virtually impossibe to sustain outside cities but they may be an argument for not living in the countryside (obviously not a pleasant concept to many).
Blair socialist , does anyone in the country think that, has he used the word the last 20 years :)
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The US needs a much better public transportation system than it has, not just in cities, but mostly from the main suburbs to the major cities. Most people in the suburbs work somewhere else, and THEY ALL DRIVE. Seriously, my state is starting to sprout concrete everywhere.
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Did you guys know the creator of “Titanic” just produced a movie about finding Jesus’s body. The movie claims that they have found Jesus’s body in a tomb next to his wife Mary Magdoline and his son Judas. It’s the Divinci Code all over again. I looked at the evidence on this site and personally found it a bit ahhh…… askew? Anyway, it’s at very least worth looking into, and seeing as we as Pastafarians are on a level playing field with Christians, we can use anything as evidence. In other words, we have the right to go around claiming to everyone that Jesus had a son, without really looking into it. And who knows? It could be true. Here’s the site:
http://dsc.discovery.com/convergence/tomb/tomb.html
and the movie airs on Discovery Channel on March 4. Anyone have an opinion on the validity of the claim? Personally I think what they found is a coincidence, although I am at least willing to give the movie a try. Sorry for having nothing to do with anything by the way.
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My skeptical side says it’s horseshit.
My FSM side says horeshit is my middle name.
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Pastafarians :Bowl of tasty pasta Fact!
Christians : Hole in the ground Fact!
I know which one excites me more (give you the clue it involves grog and wenches)
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I wonder, if Cameron had found a plate of ancient spaghetti in the tomb, would he publicize it? Nahhhhhh not likely…too “controversial”.
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On Feb 20, the Atascadero Unified School District’s School Board voted unanimously to rescind the resolution to allow students to leave study hall to attend religious instruction (http://www.sanluisobispo.com/mld/sanluisobispo/news/local/16746137.htm). I heard that the resolution only passed because the board members were told, erroneously, that they would be sued if they didn’t pass it. Contrary to the article’s implication that it was public feedback that brought the issue back to the board, the board itself insisted on debate and another vote once the members did their own research. They’ve also put a procedure in place to prevent further on-the-spot votes that would not allow them to be prepared. (I love the part of the article about the sophomore, who gave a spirited speech while dressed as a pirate!)
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Just a little something I picked up over at Dawkins this morning :)
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This Modern World: You can’t trust science! Is the Earth sphericated or flaticular?
http://www.workingforchange.com/comic.cfm?itemid=22047
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And you’ve just got to love this:
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Academy denies claims from job candidate
A teacher applying for a senior job at a Teesside school claims he was confronted by “religious intolerance” at his interview.
“They were asking for a missionary, not a teacher,” said Dr Valentine, himself a Methodist lay preacher.â€
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http://www.gazettelive.co.uk/news/news/tm_headline=academy-denies-claims-from-job-candidate%26method=full%26objectid=18729637%26siteid=109975-name_page.html
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hehehehehe :)
RAmen
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Ahoy me hearties, nice to see me very own Teesside making the pages here. Comes to somethign when a preacher accuses a school board of religious intolerance and zealotry! i’ll be biking about there monday, there may just have to be a fsm poster on the school sign.. yaarrrrr me hearties.
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And Nikkiee, forgive the personal question whereabouts you from then? thought the Gazette had a circulation of 12 and 2 of them seem to get delivered to my house!
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Spider
I’m an Aussie. ….from the Sunshine State of Queensland :)
Picked that story up over at the Dawkins site on my morning rounds.
RAmen
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“My view is that religion classes should be allowed in school but that they shouldn’t be taught by any member of that particular religion. Unless we’re talking about Pastafarianism, in which case the teacher should be a devout Believer, dressed in Pirate Regalia.”
This has worried me for a while. We all know that you need no specific attire to Witness as a Christian. However, His Noodlyness has decreed that it is disrespectful to preach the Gospel of his Noodly Ways to the masses without wearing full pirate regalia.
Now this is not easy. A ruched shirt and half-length trousers are portable by the simple expedient of wearing them. A tricorn hat is large and bulky, and may be cause for adverse comment if worn on the London Underground. Taking a cutlass anywhere in public is a definite non-starter in these suspicious days, let alone a brace of pistols!
So what, then would suffice as “full Pirate regalia” – do we really need the tricorn hat, or can we manage with a simple eye-patch and a kerchief tied round the head? How can we ensure that we can preach the gospel of the FSM in public, without disrespect, using only easily portable materials that do not get us arrested?
Yours,
Devout Heathen
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spagetti monster lol
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interesno pochitat’ o krisise
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