You’re going to hell for degrading god to a pile of noodles. Have fun burning for an eternity. -Erik Vavro
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An elaborate spoof on Intelligent Design, The Gospel of the Flying Spaghetti Monster is neither too elaborate nor too spoofy to succeed in nailing the fallacies of ID. It's even wackier than Jonathan Swift's suggestion that the Irish eat their children as a way to keep them from being a burden, and it may offend just as many people, but Henderson, described elsewhere as a 25-year-old "out-of-work physics major," puts satire to the same serious use that Swift did. Oh, yes, it is very funny. -- Scientific American
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@Mad Davy
Migraines are nasty! I’ve had cluster headaches since I was 17. Frequency has dropped as I’ve got older, thankfully! They used to get so bad that I’d be banging my head against the wall and calling god every name under the sun! Even contemplated the final solution a few times. They don’t call them suicide headaches for nothing!
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It was these that really opened my eyes to the truth of christianity. I was told that they were a gift. That Paul used to suffer from similar. I was such a threat to Satan that god had allowed him to curse me as god knew I was strong enough to get through them!
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I said she was full of shit!
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@Alchemist
Yeah, I count myself lucky that I have meds which are effective for mine. The old man has a heart condition that won’t allow most of the migraine meds. I spoke with him last night. He seemed to be in descent spirits.
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I never can express how frustrating that tendancy of the religious is. They can use the lack of any boundaries in their mysticism (and let’s not kid ourselves, that’s what any supernatural belief is.) to rationalize anything. Your headaches make you like Paul, the fossils are there to test our faith, god is on the side of our military because we’re right (interestingly enough, in most wars both sides make this claim simultaneously), you can make up any shit that you want in any situation that you want. It’s the rejection of reality and the embracing of fantastic magical horse shit at its base. Pretty convenient.
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Yet another sinner who damns the sinning. What gives you the right to say we’re going to Hell? I believe that would be your god’s decision, and you’ll have no say.
Plus, we are not reducing God to noodles, we are glorifying him to noodles.
If there is a Hell, I think I’ll enjoy burning forever in it more than I’d enjoy spending an eternity with some of the Christians I know.
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Nothing seems to work on clusters. They gave me ergotamine at one point (not a smart move :)) but no joy. Low dose psilocybin (from magic mushrooms) seems to help but the government has reclassified ’shrooms as class A drugs now!
Like I say, not many these days. If they do become chronic, as can happen, I WILL end them. Permanently. They’re that bad!
The worst bit is you can’t drink alcohol when you’re in an active cycle. Brings them on!
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Yeah, the Paul comment would have resulted in facial reconstruction if the person hadn’t been female and my girlfriend – at the time :)
Give your dad my best!
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@Kristina
I said something similar to a fundie with whom I am friendly because he is a coworker of mine. I told him that one day I would like to retire to someplace warm and coastal. My wife is terrified of eathquakes (what a sissy), so southern California is out. I am not too crazy about most of the American Southeast (they’re stuck in the 1700’s politically). So I said maybe the Florida Keys. He said “You’d live around all of those gays?!” I told him that I damn sure would live there and in part because of the gays. They so offend the fundies that it keeps them the hell away! For that, I would throw a weekly “Thank you gay people” party!
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@Lolli
“There is no god.”
of course, but what’s your subjective probability that it is true? Let’s make the question positive, for simplicity sake. “What is the probability that a god exists who created the universe and will give some of us everlasting life?” No worldly fact get’s a zero or one hundred percent. (Tautologies get a 100% and contradictions get a 0% but they are not about the world, they are about language). So depending upon on our individual data bases, we can think of the probability that god exists as a function of those data bases, and the best probability as being identical to our most rational degree of belief given our background infomation.
So it follows that none of our rational degrees of belief in worldly things are zero or 1. I don’t believe that the god with the characteristics above is inconceivable, just highly unlikely. I would set the probability that such a god exists as very close to zero, but not identical to zero. My estimate is hard to make because I don’t know how many zeros belong in the number, but something like .000000000001 or 1 chance in an american trillion. Although it may be closer to a Brazilian.
Got a number?
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A whole Brazillian?!
Greetings Bill.
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Hi Bill. I’m going for my favourite number and say
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Are you gonna go “Bill and Ted” on me Alchemist?
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Half a post! That was actually quite dramatic, didn’t like my less than sign, html be damned!
less than 1 in 6×10^23. Possible, just ask the homoeopaths, but improbable. Most like a placebo effect :)
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@Alchemist
It doesn’t like less than or greater than signs. It thinks of them as html markers. But it was a good effect. That number looks familiar. Maybe you meant 1 in 6.023 x 10^23?
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I like 1 in a Brazillian, because if the chances of God’s existance are .000000000001 as per Bill’s clalculation I can then say:
The chances of God existing for everyone else as a percentage can be expressed as .000000000001, whereas for a Brazillion it is 1 in a Brazillian which is expressed 1.0! 1.0, that means god is some Brazillian dude probably wandering around central america somewhere. Let’s go find him and kick his ass for all of the disease, and famine, and war, and for gnats, and mentos commercials!
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Hi Bill. Yup, that’s the one. In an earlier postfest I jumped into the probability and big numbers one. Can’t remember where it was. You’ve probably seen it.
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It was about the probability of all of this being accidental, that it couldn’t have been an accident as the odds were just too damned huge.
I calculated the age of the earth in seconds to be about 1.4 x 10^17s (4.54 Ga for earth)
So there are more atoms in 12 g of C than the age of the earth in seconds.
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DPG added that that’s just the earth, what about all the other billions of planets. All those atoms, all those interactions every picosecond.
The odds of life seem pretty likely then.
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I think that there is an inverse relationship between God exists and life was spontaneous.
Just my take on it.
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@Alchemist
I believe 6.023x 10^23 was avogadro’s number. Number of atoms in a mole or something like that. I’ve really forgotten. But a chemist like yourself, or alchemist, anyway probably knows
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I didn’t know that there would be math questions.
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Kristina, RAmen.
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Does anyone have a phone book for Brazil? I desire retribution for having been subjected to Mentos commercial. Also, should I look in the yellow pages or white?
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Afternoon (or morning) Marc. You enjoy the football? No serious after effects I hope :)
Man this thread’s going to hit the big 1000 soon. It’s taking for ever (?) to refresh!
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Mad Davy Read…
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Why is Bush and Bush alone responsible for the state of our schools and economy today?
OK, I hate long posts, so I’ll try to avoid that.
When W took office in a rigged election, we had a surplus of government money.
We were facing a global economy that threatened to crush us, if we didn’t act on it.
What did Bush do? Well, instead of putting money into our education system, so we could compete in this new economy.
He sat on his thumbs, made some asinine comments about “no child being left behind”.
He had the secretary of education, rewrite-testing requirements.
Handed those requirements down to the States, and informed them if students didn’t meet the new testing standards, that federal funding would be cut. Instead of using that surplus of funds we had to help the schools, he put the blame on the schools! Way to go W!
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9/11 hit, so he was off the hook for awhile. Understandably. We Americans love a good war, his ratings went up! He even suckered us into a war with Iraq. This was the beginning of the deficit we now have.
When people noticed the deficit, he started pointing a finger at Social Security. Can anybody say ” Reganomics “?
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Ok, back to the question. If W had put money into our education system, our children would be better equipped to deal with this New World economy. As it stands today, Ford Motor Company, has put up everything it owns, to survive three more years. Toyota is now one of the “big three” auto makers. And while our Stock market is enjoying record numbers. Our “Middle” working class (the backbone of this country) is all but bankrupt. And our children are not being taught anything to help change this…
This is why I can blame W and W alone for the state of our economy and education.
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bill tomlinson Feb 5th, 2007 at 10:52 am
@Lolli
“There is no god.â€
of course, but what’s your subjective probability that it is true?.
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100% Sorry I had to skip all your numbers and such.
But, you can rest assured, there is no god 100%.
However if someone wants to believe in one, and not try to push it on me…
I’ll say for them, 100% there IS a god.
Ramen
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I’d talk about necrophilia here, but it’s dead boring.
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Probability of a God like creator existing. Maybe 50%. Probability of the Christian God existing, zero. He would tolerate this.
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W isn’t solely responsible for the issues mentioned above. There are lots of people who haven’t done the required duty. They are just as responsible….
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Corrections, Christian _like_, would_n’t_ tolerate.
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How long before I’m branded a terrorist for my previous post?
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@bill tomlinson Feb 5th, 2007 at 11:44 am
“@Alchemist
I believe 6.023x 10^23 was avogadro’s number. Number of atoms in a mole or something like that. I’ve really forgotten. But a chemist like yourself, or alchemist, anyway probably knows”
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Na, don’t be silly. mole’s have way more atoms than that. Even baby ones.
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Afternoon Lolli, Evening Teddy.
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I’m going to keep out of the US politics one Lolli. I don’t know enough about it. I’m still praying to a god I don’t believe exists that Blair will be arrested over the cash for honours thing! I think he should have been arrested over the *coff coff* ’suicide’ of Dr. David Kelly!
That one really did smell like 5 or SIS!
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Teddy Feb 5th, 2007 at 12:09 pm
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W isn’t solely responsible for the issues mentioned above. There are lots of people who haven’t done the required duty. They are just as responsible….
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Thats right Teddy, don’t blame the Captain for the ship crashing the rocks.
I’m sure the cook was just as responsible, I’ll even bet you’re a republican.
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Hahaha. Those bloody Diggers get everywhere. Cue the Chumbawamba :)
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@Lolli. ;) You really missed the point of that statement. Maybe one of the others might explain what I _may_ have meant, but I will deny everything. I trust no government.
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@Alchemist.
RAmen, and if nothing else, they handed him the rope.
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I’m a paranoid Penguin.
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That is essentially my view on the issue too. I also mentioed the unfunded mandate, crappy reagenomic policy, and the cornholing of the middle class.
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I see what you’re saying about it is Bush’s doing that our educational system is a mess given the surplus he had handed to him and the decisions that he made. I just differ in that I don’t let the rest of the GOP (Grand Oil Party) off of the hook.
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You sort of revealed some evidence to that effect when you said reagenomics. This evisceration of the middle class has been a result of bad conservative fiscal policy since Reagen. Granted, we are now onto economics and off of education when I say that, but everything that he has done to education and to the middle class he was done with the backing of the republicans in congress. Republicans who, by the way, held a majority for 12 years in congress. W is the most recent and worst example of what’s wrong with these schmucks, but the GOP has weilded the power in our government for too long to not now take the blame for the ills our country currently experiences. They got to have their way for a sustained period of time. It went poorly…. very poorly.
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Teddy. Just because you’re paranoid doesn’t mean they’re NOT out to get you :)
Blair could give Thatcher a run for her money in the egotistical megalomaniac with the finger on the button race!
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Have you seen his eyes when someone disagrees with him?
I keep expecting him to say something like “out, unclean spirit, out I say! I command you to leave this body, in Jesus name! Get thee to gehenna, never to return!”
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Don’t much like him :)
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Mad Davy Read, and Teddy.
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I understand what both of you mean, when you say the GOP is also responsible.
Where I disagree with that, is we elect a leader. I expect that leader to lead.
Think of me as a realist, but if I don’t run my business my business fails.
If I were to blame everybody in my employee for my business failing.
Well then, I’d be a pretty piss poor leader.
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@ Lolli
I can definately understand your point with regard to The Louse in the House. There is no doubt in my mind that he will be remembered as the worst president in the history of our nation. The thing is, aside from the veto pen and the commander-in-cheif powers, the true power in this nation resides in the congress.
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Mad Davy Read Feb 5th, 2007 at 12:58 pm
@ Lolli
I can definately understand your point with regard to The Louse in the House. There is no doubt in my mind that he will be remembered as the worst president in the history of our nation. The thing is, aside from the veto pen and the commander-in-cheif powers, the true power in this nation resides in the congress.
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Ok, I want to put this to rest and go fundie fighting…
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I just want to add, you are completely correct!
The veto and Commanader in Cheif powers are essentially his only two tools.
That seems be be what everybody believes.
What people seem to miss is he is in a position to persuade congress to agree him. FDR, JFK, AND WJC. Were excellent examples of what the power of persuasion can achieve.
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@Lolli
100%? I don’t think that can be a reasonable, nor could 100% be right for your opponent, for the following reasons. To say that a belief is 100% is to say that no possible subjective experience could reasonably change that number. So imagine the following experience. You’re crossing the street one day and all of a sudden you look up, see a big truck coming at you. You don’t seem to be able to get out of the way and the next thing you remember is that you seem to be in front of a large gate. You walk through the gate and start having sensory experiences that are quite different from the ones you usually have. You immediately believe that you are having some sort of hallucination, but it stays. You seem to be talking to old friends that you remember have died and such things.
Impossible you say. But it’s not by this description, for I’m using language like ‘it seems to be’ and ’sensory experience’, I’m not putting judgements on what those experiences are explained by. It could be a dream. It could be an hallucination. It could be you’ve gone crazy. All those are possible explanations for the experiences you SEEM to be having. This seeming experience is a possible sequence of what you seem to be experiencing, as long as I don’t say things like, ‘then you see something that appears to be a round square’.
Back to the story. Of course you don’t believe that you are in heaven or have an afterlife but are hard pressed to explain your experience. It doesn’t seem like a dream and yet weird things are happening. You lolli-gag around for a while doing nothing but take it all in. After what seems to be a couple of years you figure, even though its a hallucination, maybe you should do something to mark the time because you’re getting bored with the hallucination, so you take up the harpsichord.
You’ve seen Groundhog day and maybe you saw Picard take on a whole new life in ‘the inner light’, so you figure the way they did. Might as well take up an instrument. Now, this seeming sensory experience goes on for what seems to be hundreds of years. Does this experience change your probability that there is a heaven and that god may exist from 0 to something else? I would think a reasonable person would have to re-evaluate that probability. I don’t know if Picard ever 100% believed he was in a different life, but he had to consider the liklihood that maybe ‘Picard’ was a dream or a trick of the mind. That would be reasonable.
But if your probability can change from 100% then it wasn’t really 100% maybe just darn close.
Can you then come reasonably to believe that you are in heaven and believe it 100%? Even after amazing seemingly unexplainable experiences in ordinary terms, I don’t think it’s even reasonable then ever to conclude that something in the world is 100% or 0% because you can always imagine a possible experience which would change those numbers and 100% and 0% can’t be changed.
I know how you hate long posts. Sorry
RAmen
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@Lolli
I agree with that. That’s the point though. Look at how inarticulate this chimp of a president is! Yet he was still able to persuade congress?! They were more interested in political expedience than they were in the good of the nation. Oh well, enough of this subject. They lost the majority in both chambers and the twit of all twits is out soon.
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Did everyone see the contageous fumblitus outbreak that was yesterday’s superbowl? That must be some sort of record.
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@Lolli & MadDavy
You’ve probably seen http://www.bushorchimp.com/
but just in case.
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bill tomlinson, Ok Bill.
I’m afraid thats all just a little to deep for me.
I just can’t wrap my mind around all those “ifs”.
I just look at things in the now, with a little in my savings account for emergencies.
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@Bill Tomlinson
A bit back you said you’d like to see The root of all evil and Dawkins on the Colbert report. I saw the root of all evil on YouTube and The Colbert report on CNN.The CNN stuff is often posted on YouTube too. Lately they have been cracking down on copyrighted video, but you may want to check anyway.
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Mad Davy Read Feb 5th, 2007 at 1:23 pm
@Lolli
I agree with that. That’s the point though. Look at how inarticulate this chimp of a president is! Yet he was still able to persuade congress?! They were more interested in political expedience than they were in the good of the nation. Oh well, enough of this subject. They lost the majority in both chambers and the twit of all twits is out soon.
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Did everyone see the contageous fumblitus outbreak that was yesterday’s superbowl? That must be some sort of record.
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Fair enough, I see your point, congress was not persuaded by this monkey.
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Yes I did watch the game, mind you I had a beer in each hand.
I think the rain, really played a part in it.
That first kick off return was a classic though.
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@Lolli
:-(
Too bad. I don’t think I have any beliefs that aren’t multi-conditional.
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Thanks for the reminder DPG!
A bit ago I posted that Matt Ridley was keynote speaker at this year’s Darwin Day Lecture held by the British Humanist Assoc. To be Chaired by Prof Dawkins.
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Nick the Missionary expressed some interest in seeing the video, if there was one.
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I’ve spoken to Jemma Hooper at the BHA. She hopes that the lecture will be recorded and made available. It might be too late though, for this year. We need a film maker. Next years if a definite though.
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If anyone reading this is a filmmaker, and able to get to London, then PLEASE contact the BHA.
http://www.humanism.org.uk/site/cms/
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Thanks. Hijack over!
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Hi you, everybody!
This thread is taking waaay to long to load!
I say we move to a new thread to polute.
“pictaps dancing” only has 21 posts at the moment.
What say we go destroy that one?
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I’m game! Might drag my post along too!
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This is just my personal belief, but…
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I think that Agnosticism and Atheism are just as religious as other faiths. I will explain my reasoning for this belief with 3 points:
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1. THEY ARE BOTH BASED ON BELIEFS, RATHER THAN FACTS, although they both believe that their beliefs are actual fact. Scientific evidence is a little better than blind faith, but if you think about it, most religions start from logical reasoning. “Hey… if the sun moves across the sky, something must be pulling it. It’s most likely something pretty powerful, if it can move something that big and fiery. So it’s probably the chariot of some kind of god. Since I don’t know his name, I’ll choose… Apollo. Yeah, that sounds about right.”
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Yes, there are a good few “probably”s and “most likely”s in that speech, but that’s true of science as well. Most of what we think up in science is just speculation and conjecture. There’s no solid proof that the world isn’t just a Matrix-esque illusion, or that fundamental laws like gravity are just tricks of the light. Quantum physics is the closest we’ve come to striking home, and even that is a little shaky.
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2. THEY ARE BOTH FIRMLY CONVINCED THAT THEIR IDEAS ARE CORRECT, and no amount of persuasion will shake their resolve. They consider their ideas to be fact, and not idea or opinion.
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3. THEY ARE BOTH WILLING TO DEFEND THEIR BELIEFS WITH VERBAL OR PHYSICAL ATTACKS. As much as I love His Noodliness, this site is a perfect example of said verbal attacks. As a whole, I think this site is a bit too light-hearted to be considered an attack (and I like the general theme of open-mindedness) but some of the more devout atheists on the blog aren’t so light-hearted with their posts. This is not to say that all religious people are of this manner; just the opposite. I believe religion (and yes, I am still considering atheism a religion) is a generally positive force in the world, but every good thing has a dark side.
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Generally, I think that the only way to escape belief is to have an open mind about everything; of course, that idea is, itself, a belief. Perhaps humans need a belief system to stay sane.
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@ Varthonai
THEY ARE BOTH BASED ON BELIEFS, RATHER THAN FACTS
What is a fact? I think it might be what is commonly believed to be true.It’s not just what is true but those things that are agreed (by everyone?) to be true. To say it’s true means it corresponds to reality, but none of us are in position to declare what that is.
In that sense maybe the distinction between these more sophisticated beliefs and the others is that some beliefs are based on what is justified and some are based on beliefs that make one more comfortable.
If you walked in from outside, without a stake in the matter (an alien from somewhere else, maybe), which beliefs would you want to have?
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@Varthonai
Tis true…the Pastafarians defend their faith with some very nasty words…can be hurtful…(sob)
@Billy (Bones) Tomlinson
“What is a fact? I think it might be what is commonly believed to be true”.
Excuse me Mr Tomlinson but does this mean that when it was commonly believed that the Earth was flat it really was??? Wow!…
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Thumper Feb 5th, 2007 at 11:47 pm
@Varthonai
Tis true…the Pastafarians defend their faith with some very nasty words…can be hurtful…(sob)
@Billy (Bones) Tomlinson
“What is a fact? I think it might be what is commonly believed to be trueâ€.
Excuse me Mr Tomlinson but does this mean that when it was commonly believed that the Earth was flat it really was??? Wow!…
STOP STEALING MY IDEA! Thumper, I respect your ideas, and even find them interesting, but please don’t resort to plagiarism.
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But to clear everything up, I’ll stick by what I said in the “Religion: Positive or Not” thread; there is very little we know for certain, and therefore we shouldn’t presume to make any conclusions about the world that are 100% solid.
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@Varthonai
Oops…this thread is possessed by the devil and too difficult to read…was accidental.
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Thumper Feb 6th, 2007 at 12:33 am
@Varthonai
Oops…this thread is possessed by the devil and too difficult to read…was accidental.
I see. It would be just like Lucifer to get up from his job playing piano in nightclubs to plague me… Well, alright then. It’s ok, Thumper.
You’re very thoughtful and insightful, Thumper, and I wish you’d challenge more of my ideas. I am honored by your presence, in friendship or in… foe-dom. Is that a word? It should be.
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I thought being a christian was all about respecting and loving each other so why be so nasty`God’ will now send you to `hell’ for being unrespectful,shame on you man,shame on you.
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No beer volcano or stripper factory for him.
As a side no f*#k you
Aw screw the #%@#% crap fuck you
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