You’re going to hell for degrading god to a pile of noodles. Have fun burning for an eternity. -Erik Vavro
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An elaborate spoof on Intelligent Design, The Gospel of the Flying Spaghetti Monster is neither too elaborate nor too spoofy to succeed in nailing the fallacies of ID. It's even wackier than Jonathan Swift's suggestion that the Irish eat their children as a way to keep them from being a burden, and it may offend just as many people, but Henderson, described elsewhere as a 25-year-old "out-of-work physics major," puts satire to the same serious use that Swift did. Oh, yes, it is very funny. -- Scientific American
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bill, so much has been posted today that is kinda hard to find your thesis, do you mind reposting it?
maybe im not looking hard enough
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Bill. Negativo? Yes. I wouldn’t mind reading it in one go though. Post chasing can be a sod! If you can email it to me I’d love to read it in one lump :)
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actually, i dont think there is
maybe bobby should have some sort of password, althought that would kind discurage hate-mailers, and they are so much fun
does anyone mind if i try and post something as them? i wont try it w/o your permission
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Bill. Logging on. No! We have had problems with that. The regulars seem to know who is posting despite their name. If you’re in doubt about me then you can easily find out!
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you can kinda tell peoples style of writing. i dont really look at the names until some says @so and so and doesnt quote them and i dont get confused
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Boing. Time to hit the treacle mines!
Night folks
D
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I posted on topix.net I said
Has anyone seen evil stuff on http://www.venganza.org ? They are making fun of God there. Real blasphemy! Aren’t there laws?
Does that make me a bad guy?
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Just ask me.
I know everybody! Almost, kind of, sort of, well you know…
But it easy to read whos who.
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Did your theory of ethics/morality make sense?
I’ll have to look tomorrow, or have Alchemist forward it to me.
#14
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bill tomlinson Feb 2nd, 2007 at 9:32 pm
I posted on topix.net I said
Has anyone seen evil stuff on http://www.venganza.org ? They are making fun of God there. Real blasphemy! Aren’t there laws?
Does that make me a bad guy?
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hahaha, Yep! Your going to burn in hell for that!
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Alchemist Feb 2nd, 2007 at 9:30 pm
Boing. Time to hit the treacle mines!
Night folks
D
G’nite bro, I’ll be passing out right shorty here.
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Bill
i guess it technically does, but more because you believe in the FSM than for sending them here. we like fundies…once we rip them apart
give them a link directly to this thread…but not until the stuff about fundie baiting is buried in the middle somewhere
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Bill
no comments and its been up for over an hour? i guess the christians go to bed early
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@truebeliever and Spinoza
Thanks for asking, It gives me a chance to post with fewer typos and maybe be clearer, (I hope)
The way I like to approach almost every philosophical problem is from the point of view of Semantics. So if we want to explore ethics, we can ask the question “What do people mean to convey when they claim an action is wrong?” (or right or what does it mean to be a good person). I think there are 4 things there are four action principles they could be referring to in their claim
1) Act as if you were kind.
2) Act with integrity.
3) Act with respect.
4) Follow the laws of god.
I have yet to find a case where when someone has said something was right or wrong that it wasn’t tracable to one or more of these princples.
To know which principle(s) a person is referring to one may have to inquire a bit further.
Needless to say if the person means to refer to principle #4, it is not going to carry much weight with me unless they can break it down to one or more of the other three.
To expand a bit. “Act kindly” could apply to people but may extend to other life forms.
2) Act with integrity, means to keep your promises and commitments (maybe even to yourself), be honest (maybe even to yourself) Do not be without honor ! (Think Klingon)
3) Act with respect for others and other lifeforms and possibly even to inanimate things, like the Earth (especially if one considers the earth to be a living organism).
Needless to say sometimes these principles will come in conflict in specific situations. When in conflict, the choice we make will determine what kind of a person we are, heavy on caring, light on integrety, or vice-versa. Some may be kind with little integrity. Some may be full of integrity with little kindness
To consider these at first, a person probably needs to forget for a bit about how they are connected to emotions like guilt and shame. “Guilt” I take as the expectation of punishment, with the background belief that on some level, punishment is what you deserve. “Shame” I take as what you get when you don’t live up to your own ideal.
I would not want to claim that because language works a certain way that that gives society and the keepers of language the power to tell us what we must do to avoid guilt and shame.
The motivation for wanting to be a good person, (good person: someone who follows as much as possible the first 3 principles), is that we want to be the kind of person that we would want to be around.
It would be a difficult life if you were the kind of person that you would hate, or would hate to be associated with. That would mean you would hate yourself. Of course it requires a bit of honesty with onceself to figure out where one might fit in all this, and one could lie to oneself but probably not without a lot of ‘cognitive dissonance’ and not without knowing one was lying.
I would want to be the kind of person that has an acceptable balance between those three principle. That way I can be the kind of person I respect.
Anyway, that’s my idea of what morality is and ‘why be moral?’. I’m hoping it proves useful to someone out there.
This is a better post than my original to Spinoza
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P.S. But the post still has strange sentence problems and typos.
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The fundie sight I posted to, posts happen every hour or so. Could be a long delay. Don’t give up hope. They might fall in in a day or so.
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yeah, it makes sense
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@truebeliever
thanks for feedback Criticism’s ok though
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Latest thoughts;
I’ve been thinking about Negativo and the possibility of development. As a minor type of philosophical consideration, he/she does seem interesting at first glance, but he/she seems to be a one note character. “Negative existence”.
Upon my reflection the FSM is well developed and captures a rich enough sense of parody that makesit clear that we don’t need a new parody character. If Negativo had come first then he may have been quite sufficient, and maybe FSM wouldn’t have added much, but then again without the FSM maybe Negativo would not have been born.
I still want to pursue the idea to see if it’s richer that I thought, but don’t hold your breath for an astounding advance.
:-)
I’ll still try to put up an idea’s (yours and mine) page tomorrow.
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I was on a thread and now cannot find it. Is it gone or just hard to find?
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It may have been bumped off to the archives.
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or his noodliness has hidden it. he does that sometimes just for kicks…
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@My Friend…
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It is so sad. Australia lost :’(
Still, I suppose if we hadn’t done it, there would have been no excitement leading up to the cup. Now, NZ and the poms are equal points, so there is a real incentive to fight for the last match before the finals.
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It’s tragic that it happened, but it’s for the best. Although not too happy bout Symonds pulling that muscle or whatnot.
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@bill tomlinson Feb 3rd, 2007 at 12:45 am
“I was on a thread and now cannot find it. Is it gone or just hard to find?”
It is still there probably just got overposted by another thread.
Do you remember the name of the thread? Have you got a history list (pages visited) on your browser?
I noticed a few of your posts on this recently
http://www.venganza.org/2007/01/11/religion-positive-overall.htm#comment-48221
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Boy Alchemist and Lolli were going for it last night! Hope both your heads are OK this morning!
If you are hotelling round here Alchemist you’ll be sure to let me know won’t you?
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@bill tomlinson Feb 2nd, 2007 at 5:08 pm
@Teddy
“…But have you ever had a dream where you knew it was a dream at the time. Would you count that as reality?
I think you are saying that the experience is real, and it is, but that’s different from question about whether the things you experience are a direct representation of reality or whether they are illusions.”
Another way you get close to your position would be to use the confirmability principle of logical empiricism. If there is no empirical way to get an answer to a question, then the question is meaningless. Thus you might say that whether this is reality or not is not even a real question.”
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Nope, don’t think I’ve had that dream. I’ve had it before where I was on the cusp of sleep, started dreaming, didn’t like it.. And, I twisted the dream to my liking. After a few seconds I realised what I had done and woke up, couldn’t exist between the two ‘realities’.
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I’d say they are neither a direct representation of reality nor an illusion. They are merely thoughts. You’re brain latching on to something and playing with it. UT obsessiveness can give awesome dreams BTW. You must know everything you dream before hand, the dreams come from you, not from outside. So, they are _based_ on real knowledge, but can help you realise something you had forgotten. It’s the same as sitting down and pondering all this. Our thoughts, to us, are real.
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Theory of morality. Good logic, and I like it. Not brilliantly written from a readers perspective, needs some more defined paragraphs and a longer post to be more clear on some of the later points me feels. Don’t think you would truly win on readability, I couldn’t. Also, is it morally correct to do something to help yourself, or is it only moral to help others at sacrifice to oneself, etc.
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Negativo, when I first read this post I felt it was greatly missing some logic. It has something, but we’d need a dedicated thread + beers to work through it and refine the logic and remove the flaws. It could certainly go somewhere. Ever considered setting up a discussion on your site?
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For the Record (despite you not asking :( ) I’m in the UK.
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Hey, thanks a lot, guys. Because of your wanton ways, I have been blaspheming already this morning, and it’s not even 8:00 am yet. (EST USA – Northern New England). It’s going to be a long weekend.
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“…But have you ever had a dream where you knew it was a dream at the time. Would you count that as reality?”
Lucid dreaming. I’ve had lucid dreams and sometimes it’s taken me up to two days to shake the strong feeling of reality about them.
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Hi Booty. Shhh, don’t talk too loud ;) Sure will btw. Could you cope with a 37y/o teenager though!
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New flash! H5N1 has been confirmed in poultry in England.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/suffolk/6327193.stm
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If it gets into pigs I’m going to dust of my respirator and Tyvex. Cytokine storms don’t really float my boat :)
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What would Gaia do?
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Marc. The cricket’s being held down under (ooh er missus!) It’s England V Scotland for the Calcutta Cup today (Rugby Union). So I’ll either be rampaging through the threads trying to start arguments or very nice to people.
Hahaha – only joking!
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(about being nice) mwhahaha!
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Well, lets hope they handle it infinitely better than they handled foot and mouth.
So, we have 100 infected sheep. Lets slaughter them on the farm then carry the dripping carcasses across the country spreading F&M everywhere. Wouldn’t mind, but if they hit it sooner it wouldn’t have spread the same. Still, typical ‘deny there is a problem’ always seems the way.
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For once I think public hysteria is a good thing. You can’t hide much.
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Gaia? She’d kill off the weak to strengthen the whole. Or not, if you’re a fundie.
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g’morning alchemist….i’m tiptoeing here..can you see?
Dunno how to make the font smaller though!
I am supposed to be going to the park with the boys, but they are glued to the box (Yay! – makes a change – they usually refuse to watch it – weird kids!) Must go out soon though and feel guilty about enjoying the weather.
Of course I can cope with another boy – I have 3 already – one more won’t make a difference! Besides, I’m a nurse, so I know how to make people behave ;)
I am hoping to have a drink or two tonight myself – ah roll on bedtime!
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Bird Flu – oh joy, another thing for the general public to panic about – don’t bother worrying about the important stuff though eh?
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Hi Teddy and Booty. Bird flu yar! I think it’s another one like global warming, drugs, religion etc. Two diametrically opposed groups who won’t sit down and discuss it in a civil, open minded way.
I don’t think H5N1 is anything to panic about yet. It’s called Avian flu for a reason. That said, the 1918 pandemic was also a HxNx variant. We actually got away with it quite lightly then as group immunity had been increased by a milder version doing the rounds earlier.
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I won’t bog down the thread by getting into antigenic shift etc. Did you ever see a Horizon programme, few years ago, about the end of the world? Meteor strikes, strangelets and pandemics were in there (others too but I can’t remember them!)
It was a case of “not if this will happen, but when!”
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On that rather depressing note I shall retire to the off-license. The Rugby’s on in an hour or so. Can’t watch Union without a few tins of old auntie Stella! hahaha
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“It’s called Avian flu for a reason. That said, the 1918 pandemic was also a HxNx variant.”
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yeah, the rate of viral evolution means that just because it prefers one host today, that won’t stop it infecting you in a month’s time.
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unless you’re a fundie, and don’t believe evolution exists. it would be nice if bird flu could thin their ranks a bit. at least they shouldn’t worry too much about dying.
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@Teddy
Thanks for the critique, especially about the theory of morality. I want to work on it because it’s important to me. I think I might have been trying to give the summary so as not to make the post way too long. I’m going to work on it today and see if I can clean it up and make it clearer and more readable. Maybe you can take a look at it. Also, I’ll see if I can get a posting place from my school.
#0
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@Bill, anytime. I love to criticise ;)
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Most of that just needs more completion and more rounding. And, like I say, readability.
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@Alchemist
Quite agree that we don’t need panic. Unfortunately they didn’t panic about F&M, at first – they did nothing.
Of course, once it spread it went into a wild random murder of anything on 4 legs. Animals had to stay in water logged fields, or be moved from somewhere where their legs didn’t rot and get killed by rifle.
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At least with panic at the start there is _some_ chance of rational reasoning coming in.
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@Booty, three kids and a nurse! Which first? I assume the kids. Pretty sure being a nurse would put me off bringing anything into this world…
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Bill, I am on the East Coast of the U.S. in the People’s Republic of New Columbia.
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LOL Teddy! I only have 2 official kids (boys) the other is 43 and just acts like one at times ;) I did the nurse bit first – well, the kids bit was all biological urges- all those hormones rushing around I couldn’t help myself – honest gov!
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Booty. Have you ever seen. The joy of boys?
http://thepeacetrain.org/PeaceGallery/album02
Very funny photo’s. Especially the one with the young lad looking down the girls top. I pissed myself with that :)
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Hi Everyone,
I’ve spliced together all the posts about Negativo, and I have to say that the idea doesn’t seem very interesting to me on a second read. Maybe it’s my mood this morning or maybe it’s because most jokes aren’t that funny the second time you hear them. I’ve got it at http://homepage.mac.com/billtomlinson/Negativo.html If you check it out, let me know what you think
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bill, i am very sorry that i was mean to you when you first came. you are a nice person and have a good idea. it should be a sub-church of FSM, like we belive in FSM and try hard not to believe in negativo
i just made it sound like a support group (at least in my head)
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:( no quotes from me on there
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i dont mean to say you just had one good idea, but that negativo is a good idea
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im gonna stop now
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Captain Mad John Kidd Jan 30th, 2007 at 12:32 am
That said, I do admire the creativity of little billy. I would only hope that he will gather the determination to strengthen his beliefs and develop his speculation into a flat out theory. Any new idea is open to ridicule, as we ourselves have discovered and is recorded across pages of hate mail, so it is a bit a a Pavlovian response. But if he cannot survive our satirical assaults then he would stand no chance against the god-botherers. Perhaps a valuable lesson learned. Maybe we can make a true Pastafarian out of him yet.
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you did survive our assaults and may be able to stand up to christians (actually, should be easier since they cant really grasp the concept the way we can)
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bill tomlinson Jan 29th, 2007 at 7:45 pm
I don’t know how you guys could get this soo wrong. There is no Flying Spaghetti Monster.
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bill tomlinson
Feb 1st, 2007 at 4:03 pm
Also Captain,
I do see the superiority of FSM.
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it only took 3 days to convert you. That is probably some sort of record for a nonbeliever to become a believer
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@Bill – I’ve got it. Thanks to….
“Jingles Jan 29th, 2007 at 8:18 pm
I’m eating vegemite!
Btw if you can have negative gods, can you also have imaginary (mathematecally speaking) gods?
And then, who wouyld be greater? God, -God, or iGod?”
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Of course, it’s so fraggin obvious. God’s ARE complex non-corporal entities. The most common form of energy that we know of is EM. It’s a sinusoidal wave right! What is sine?
sine(X) = (e^(jX)-e^(-jX))/j2
cosine(X) = (e^(jX)+e^(-jX))/2
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For every frequency there is a positive and negative component (therefore, in the frequency domain, negative frequencies exist)
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X is the frequency component.
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Now try this on a calculator, cos(X)+cos(-X), you’ll get 2cos(X).
Now try THIS on a calculator, sin(X)+sin(-X), you’ll get zero.
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How do we know that Gods are sine and not cosine, well, they are COMPLEX, check the equations, sine looks a lot more complex to me. So, when both forms of God exist the answer to the question is always zero (we all know what the question is too).
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God should never have uttered ‘Let there be light’. For in creating this energy he found the negative counter part and gave us a sine…
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@teddy
That has to go on my site. Well done. Thanks for the mathematical foundation. Obviously an iGod is complex but if he loses just one component, FSM forbid, he might become imaginary. Then he would fit right in with the mainstream dieties?
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@TrueBeliever
“it only took 3 days to convert you. That is probably some sort of record for a nonbeliever to become a believer”
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I don’t think bill was a true, true non-believer to start with. Just a little uncertain maybe?
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@Bill, please use jGod, I am concerned Apple will sue for the use of iGod, them claiming iPhone is fair despite Cisco owning the rights and all, given how hypocritical they are do you think they are fundies?
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The Holy Trinity
3 = 1
3 = 1 + 1 + 1
1 + 1 + 1 = 1
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Now, if 1 + 1 = 1, then 1 + 1 + 1 could also equal 1.
say x = 1 and y = 1.
x = y
xx = yx
xx – yy = yx – yy
(x+y)(x-y) = y(x-y)
(x+y) = y
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so 1 + 1 = 1.
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Ah, not so good. Looks like their God really does exist.
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Oh, wait a minute. I’ve just divided by (x – y), AKA (1 – 1), AKA 0.
We all know that you can’t divide by zero. Some argue that 1/0 = infinity, it doesn’t, but lets say it does. God is infinite, and by the very definition of infinite It is absolutely everything. Ergo we are nothing. Well, I’m here. I think you lot are there. So either I’m God, or there is no God. I can’t be God, I wouldn’t have made the world like this. That means you must exist. Well, there goes the theory that you are all a figment of my imagination.
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1/0 actually ceases to exist. You just plain shouldn’t do it. So, God ceases to exist.
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Anyone interested: as x tends towards (->) 0, 1/x -> infinity. In this case zero and infinity are just concepts, the event does not occur, there is always a smaller and larger number to consider.
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http://ccrma.stanford.edu/~jos/mdft/Positive_Negative_Frequencies.html
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I’m assuming God isn’t one bit binary. We could always ask the Guys at God hates fags and all (so stop smoking).
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Whoo. Too mathematical for me!
Inane joke time.
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Man has surgery to correct his impotence. They implant elephant stem cells into his todger.
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A few weeks after the procedure he’s at the cinema with his girlfriend.
During the film he gets an uncontrollable sensation in his crotch. The only way he can stop it is by undoing his fly.
When he does this his cock snakes out, over the seats and nicks a peanut from the person in front.
His girlfriend says “my god, that was amazing! Can you do it again?”
“Yes” he says “but I don’t know how many more buns I can fit up my arse!”
Boom Boom!
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I John 1:5-10 – This is the message which we have heard from Him (God) and declare to you, that God is light and in Him is no darkness at all.
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Even the Bible claims there are negative Gods (well, at least one).
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I wonder what colour light. Shall have to ask the next fundie I meat (erm meet, honest typo, I’m not really going to slaughter him).
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Inane jokes rock!!
How ’bout the difference between a priest and acne?
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Acne waits until little boys are 13!
oooh that’s one aweful joke.
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