You’re going to hell for degrading god to a pile of noodles. Have fun burning for an eternity. -Erik Vavro
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An elaborate spoof on Intelligent Design, The Gospel of the Flying Spaghetti Monster is neither too elaborate nor too spoofy to succeed in nailing the fallacies of ID. It's even wackier than Jonathan Swift's suggestion that the Irish eat their children as a way to keep them from being a burden, and it may offend just as many people, but Henderson, described elsewhere as a 25-year-old "out-of-work physics major," puts satire to the same serious use that Swift did. Oh, yes, it is very funny. -- Scientific American
Maybe that is why I got pissed off, Batman - he kind of freaks me out too!
@Bill
Well, fear of dying, and what happens after, are two of the big things that draw people to religion. I mean, if you think about it, when we uncover the monuments and buildings of ancient cultures (think the Mayan ruins in Peru), what is left of these cultures? Their names are almost all forgotten, we have to make guesses regarding their culture, and their belief systems have been forgotten or abandoned.
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So, each bone we dig up, and every monument we uncover, is simply an illustration of how fleeting our power (or influence, if you prefer) is on Earth. And we all know there is nothing we can do to change that. So, people look instead to an afterlife, where they will continue to influence things, as a way to find lasting meaning in their lives. If we are all going to live forever in paradise, then at least we know that everything we are and everything we believe will still have a place after our bodies are gone.
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Does this make sense? I am trying to say something, but at the same time I am trying to get work done, so I don’t know how cohesive my arguements are going to be at this time.
@Batman
It’s interesting to note that people seem to want an afterlife, even though they don’t have any idea what it might be like, besides that they will be happy all the time. They might be shoveling manure 24 hrs a day with a special implant that makes them happy nomatter what they are doing and that would be enough to strive for. They don’t know if there’s beer, sex, strippers (no, probably not strippers), television, golf, body building or art.
All the Islamists know is that there are virgins, gender not specified. Maybe big, ugly, hairy virgins. The kind you might meet in prison. But as long as they have the god/happiness-implant, they will be happy and it is worth striving for.
Happy buggering guys.
@All - starting to think Raf is one of us!
@Alchemist
If he were one of us wouldn’t he be cleverer?
Re Raf
He seems fairly adept at cut and paste.
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Or some one does it for him, if so just as well I still think he does everything else for himself.
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Sorry it’s my theme for the day; probably some Freudian meaning in there, and not too far below the surface either
@Bill
ha ha ha ha ha…
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What percentage of people in prison do you think are virgins? For some reason, I really hope someone does a study on that one day… don’t know what value it would have, but still. Maybe I’m too curious for my own good…
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@Alchemist
AARGH!! (That’s the sound my goat makes when it’s upset) Who do you think it is? WHY? Why do I never know these things…
@DutchPastaGuy Feb 24th, 2007 at 2:10 pm ” “ He died for you too, nederlandstalige pastawreter!â€. Not bad! ‘wreter’ should be spelled ‘vreter’, but other than that you’re doing well. Still, I don’t think RDPK and JB will agree to make you part of the Dutch sub-conspiracy. What do you think, RDPK and JB? I vote against.”
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I even hadn’t noticed this Raf character had put in something that looked like Dutch, because I barely read his posts Tthey look too much like boring cut & paste work, without anything REAL, compared to the posts of the regulars, joking included. This lack of personal input should rule him out for our Dutch-Flemish Sub-Conspiracy (how do you like the capitals?
@Privateer: “Wonder what they would find in Raf’s basement. Need to be something cause there’s nothing going on in the attic?”
If you need me, I am in the living room!
@Bill: Well, Bill, He has never changed. That is what I meant to say, with ‘He is’ and ‘He has always been the same (God)’. You may think He has changed into a Father, but if you had read the bible, you now that it is written that Jesus has been always with the Father.
I quote the first chapter of the gospel of John, verse 1 to 14: (mind that Jesus is the Word of God)
“1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not. (comprehended: or, did not admit, or, receive)
6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.
7 The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.
8 He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.
9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.
10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: (power: or, the right, or, privilege)
13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.”
This proves that the Narrator of this book believes that Jesus was the Creator of all things, He is God. Compare verse 1 with verse 14.
As I have told you before, Jesus has always been the Son of God. In Jesaja (old testament) chapter 9, He is calling Jesus the Father. (mind that the son will be called the everlasting Father and might God)
“6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.”
So, now you can be shure about it. According to the scriptures in the bible Jesus is the Creator of all things, Saviour of the world, the King of Peace (as He is also called several times in the bible).
Also, now you know that I believe God Himself has suffered for my sake and also your sake. Jesus, Who was God, became a human being and was crusified. Because He loved us so much He would die for us, and He did for three days. Gladly, because it wouldn’t be possible to be served by Him if He stayed dead, now would we?
The reason why I mention dead so often is because I couldn’t be mentioning it enough. I want you to realise more that dead is sickening our lives. You just can imagine the paling face of a mother that is gravily griefed by the deceasing of her child. The hatred that comes out when someone else is to blame for another ones death is just an example of the severe problems we have in this world. By seeing the images of war you want to get sick sometimes. The deseases that are tormenting so many people all over the globe… it is shocking.
So when so much misery is in this world, you should in fact be glad dying in the end. Who wants to suffer an old age, being nursed and wiped in the bottom or suffer from deseases or other misfortunes? Many people even are having the desire to die, just to get rid of the misery. But if they would be listening to Gods voice they would be redeemed, eased by the Hope of a Perfect World, coming after this world. It is the only good motivation to hang on and keep on fighting the good fight, since the Hope is depending on a Promise that cannot be broken: “the gift of eternal life in all its fullness to all mankindâ€. For who believes this, it is not mere faith, it is fact as well!
I was miserable before, because I had it with this world and even more I had it with myself, always being a jerk, lying, being lazy, smoking and drinking, not eating and moaning all day long, treating the people around me badly. I wanted to die.
So at some certain point, almost 3 years ago I said to God: “God, I have never really being addressing you like this, because I was never shure whether you existed or not. So If you do really exist, you are responsible for all this: me and this whole world. There is nothing I can do to change the way I am or the way the world is, because I found us being sick and twisted. Please, I am begging You, KILL ME! Because I don’t want to live a life that is full of misery and hardship. And even when I would be having everything I ever dreamed of, but there was someone dying out of poverty on the other side of this globe, then I don’t want this life also. So please give me a heart-attack for my heart is broken already.
And then He said to me in a calm voice: “I don’t want you to die.”
I didn’t realise what this meant, but after some moments reasoning I came to the following conclusion: “If God does not exist then there is no use in living this life, since life on earth does not fit to the description of proper life. But if there is use in living, there is a God, and that means that He has a sollution to fix this world-problem, since I only can imagine that a God is loving His creatures so much that He would make them happy. Also I couldn’t imagine God to be powerless in order to fix whatever harsh problem there is. “So God exists and He loves me so that He will fix this problem and it will all be in His hands”, I started thinking. Later on I read the gospel for the first time in my life with the “outmost” attention (is this better, or should I use ‘upmost’ again? sorry for me speaking dutch most of the time).
My eyes widened and I could see salvation when I read that Gods mercy is the GIFT of eternal life, YOU CANNOT EARN IT ! “This must be trueâ€, I was thinking…
So I reverted myself and got baptized and became a citizen of the Kingdom of God to live for an eternity in Peace for Justice through the Love of God. Amen. (So it is the truth)
Okay, to answer your question about being born in countries with christian roots:
In this countries the real message of God is even more disguised. Nowadays, the countries where hindouism has been the main tradition, more people are saved as in the ‘so-called’ christian countries. The pope and bush are corrupt, as well as many streams in christian ‘wicked’ traditions.
No, really, I believe that God has put us all at the right spot, at the right time, so none of Gods children (who would choose for Jesus eventually) would have gone lost.
Salvation goes like the wind. You don’t know from where it’s coming or where it is going. But if it happens to you, you are blessed for an eternity. I praise Jesus, Holy is His Name!
@Raf
Another waste of many words. I notice you’re still not answering the question about the great variety of religions in the world. And about how the particular faith that someone adheres to is usually a just geographic coincidence. And that a geographic coincidence is not a very good basis to live your life by. Have you ever done any thinking about that? Why don’t you believe wat Sikhs, Hindus, Taoists, Shintoists believe? Are you saying that their religions are all wrong and yours alone is right? If so, what makes yours so superior?
Suppose we have N religions that are so different that they are to be considered incompatible. At least N - 1 of them must be wrong. And how much likelyhood does that leave for the last one to be correct?
Try and think about these issues a bit instead of posting your loads of mindless long quotes. You really are one of the best examples of how religion is for those who don’t think a lot.
Raf, That was beautiful!
Ramen
@Raf
I don’t understand this part. You say “And then He said to me in a calm voice: “I don’t want you to die.â€
I didn’t realise what this meant, but after some moments reasoning I came to the following conclusion: “If God does not exist then there is no use in living this life, since life on earth does not fit to the description of proper life But if there is use in living, there is a God,”
My question: Why would you need a proof that God exists for yourself if he just talked to you?
And if you knew it was God talking to you and not an alien or a time traveller or a body snatcher or an alternate dimensional being getting into your head for a while and playing with you, then what are the identifying characteristics. How will you know tomorrow if God is talking to you or whether it is someone playing tricks on you, or you playing tricks on yourself. I’d like to know so that I know when it’s God talking to me and not just a figment.
Let’s not focus on your experience for a second, let’s think about mine. I’ve heard voices with no one around. How do I know if that was God or a ghost or just geese or a memory coming back to haunt me? Can you tell me when I can trust that it is really God talking to me? If I think it’s God, does that mean it is God?
@RAF
First of all, I owe you an apology. I was reading through your post (the whole long thing) and I was actually laughing, and I was going to write a scathingly sarcastic post, mocking your grammar and spelling errors. Not even to make a point, but simply because I was sick of being preached to. And then you said “should I use upmost or outmost, excuse me for speaking Dutch most of the time.” It made me think that maybe, instead of assuming that you grew up speaking the language and should know better, that there are people of MANY nationalities on this site and they should all be respected.
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If you really want to know, the word is utmost. Not up, and not out.
One other think, if you are “gravily griefed”, it sounds like you are sad because your gravy (meat sauce) has congealed. You want to use gravely, as in “that is a very grave situation”… and grieved, as in “I grieved for the families who lost their loved ones as a result of religious terrorism.”
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That isn’t sarcasm, I am sorry for meaning to mock your English, rather than considering it may not be your first language. That was rude and intolerant of me.
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That being said, shut up already. I am willing to agree that you really believe in your experience, if you are willing to agree that I have the right to believe in my own experiences. Can we leave it at that?
@RAF
HA HA HA HA…
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One other thing, not think… see, even I cock it up all the time.
@Batman & anyone else
I once read an article by an atheist who went out with a priest and the priest remarked that you are an atheist but don’t seem to be angry like the others I have met. He didn’t address that but it is an interesting question, especially since I have some of this anger towards organized religion. Why are atheists angry at religion
So what are the possibilities as I list them now:
1) We hate being preached to, without asking for a preaching. Why is that?
Is it because of the arrogance that they claim they know and we don’t and yet they have no evidence we don’t?
2) We have been scarred by religion in the past.
3) We had to stuggle to get out of the grips of religion and it was painful.
4) Religion made us feel guilty (maybe even still) and now we have to deal with that all over again.
5) We imagine an unsuspecting innocent falling into the web of deceit, spun by those who want to convert and believe it’s wrong.
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Anyone want to add to this? or subtract?
@Bill
I dislike organised religion too, but that is not my strongest dislike. My most fundamental objection is that religion discourages thinking (in such forms as inquisitiveness or critical questioning) and promotes having faith instead. If there is anything holding us back, then that is it.
@Bill
For me, as an atheist, I get mad when people are close minded. I see religion in two ways.
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First, I see how it can affect an individual. It can give hope where there is none. It can inspire a person to great charity and acts of great love and compassion. It can provide companionship and a sense of purpose where there was lonliness and a feeling of emptiness. If these people want to DISCUSS with me, rather than preach, about their beliefs, I am more than happy to listen, providing they do the same. For individuals who would use the “word of god” an excuse to hate, or judge, or spread anger and suffering, I have no time, because they are preaching from the soapbox, and I truly believe that individual fanatics can be dangerous, causing harm not just to themselves but to others, and I get mad when when I see people being harmed or made to feel small.
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Second, how religion affects people on a global scale, or even on a community scale. If the church is a group of people who “practice what they preach” by focusing, again, on the general good, then I have no problem with them. I might think their beliefs are wrong, but if false beliefs lead to genuine charity and acts of giving towards others, then who am I to judge? When groups are promoting hate, and killing (doctor killings, gay discrimination) and generally being harmful to the general good, then again, I have no time for them.
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Basically, it pisses me off when someone with no compassion, who has no thought beyond his own welfare and beliefs, presumes to tell me that I am not entitled to my beliefs. If I am willing to listen to someone, and hear what they have to say, then I expect that consideration in return. As long as the dialogue is open, I have no problem with it.
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Sorry, don’t know if that was what you were asking.
Raf- Oh God. Get it through your head: no one is actually reading your posts all the way through. Be satisfied with your faith, but as the rest of us want no part in it, stop wasting your breath!
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Random comment– Went to a Christian wedding today…one of my teachers…it was a pretty service (nice and short XD) but one of the songs was all about how wonderful it’ll be to die and be with Jesus. It just kinda weirded me out to sing–well, stand politely instead of singing in my case!–a song that was basically ‘yay death!’ at a wedding. Is such a looking-foward-to of dying….normal, exactly?
@Iron gill Kidd
If you believe the fairy tales then yes, every big truck speeding down the road is a possibility to jump the queue and go straight to paradise. I believe you have to make it look like an accident, as suicide is frowned upon. So ‘hope to be hit from behind by a heavy Mercedes’ is the logic of the day.
@DPG
ha ha ha ha… “Hit From Behind By a Heavy Mercedes”? If you changed it a wee bit to “Hit From Behind By a Pickup Truck of Love”, you would have the title for the next hit country song. (Calgary=Cowtown, which makes for lots of country-western jokes)
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@Iron gill Kid
That is kind of creepy. I’ve been to weddings, and don’t remember any songs like that. Maybe I wasn’t paying attention…