From Americans United:
Falwell’s Flub: Jerry-Rigged Policy Opens Door For Pagan Proselytizing In Virginia Public School
A group of Pagans in Albemarle County, Va., was recently given permission to advertise their multi-cultural holiday program to public school children – and they have the Rev. Jerry Falwell to thank for it.
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An elaborate spoof on Intelligent Design, The Gospel of the Flying Spaghetti Monster is neither too elaborate nor too spoofy to succeed in nailing the fallacies of ID. It's even wackier than Jonathan Swift's suggestion that the Irish eat their children as a way to keep them from being a burden, and it may offend just as many people, but Henderson, described elsewhere as a 25-year-old "out-of-work physics major," puts satire to the same serious use that Swift did. Oh, yes, it is very funny. -- Scientific American
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“Falwell opened the backpack forum, and the Pagans were determined to secure equal time.â€
Thanks Jerry Falwell and Liberty Counsel. :)
I’m sure the Noodley One will drop by Albemarle County, Va., at His first possible convenience.
RAmen
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I hope Virginia will now see the light and convert to Pastafarianism. Then again, that’s a pipe dream… !
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I liked the last line: freedom of religion means freedom for all religions, even the ones you don’t like. But that is something no fundie is ever going to understand. Because for them it is NOT about freedom of religion but of pushing and celebrating THEIR religion, They should have the freedom, not those others.
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Hahahahahahahahahaha!
That one bit them in the arse didn’t it?
Serves them right. I hope they enjoy their freedom of religion.
Home schooling? Why not put them in a monastery now and have done with it?
Why won’t Christians let their children grow up and think?
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To Booty
If the children get the right to think they may see the holes in religions and maybe they become atheist O_o Oh the horror of letting children deside there own beliefs without getting their parents belief shoved down there throat.
Apologises for the awful spelling and grammatical failures, You see I am not att all good at spelling :P
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Yep, Richard Dawkins often lamented the brainwashing parents are allowed to do on their children. As a depressing link, let me repeat the url to an article about home schooling in the US, where parents teach their own children and are allowed to fill their minds with just about any form of BS. I got this one from an earlier thread:
http://www.newscientist.com/channel/opinion/mg19225776.100-homeschooling-special-preach-your-children-well.html
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Things can only get worse. Or maybe they already are – Park Rangers are not allowed to comment on the age of the Grand Canyon so creationists aren’t peeved.
http://www.peer.org/news/news_id.php?row_id=801
In an not too unrelated item, certain cities in Utah will celebrate New Years Eve on Saturday so they can all make it to the 3-hour block of Sunday meetings.
I desperately need to get off this planet..
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To ContAltDel… RAmen to that! (”I desperately need to get off this planet…”) I’ll go with you. Do you know of any flying pirate ships headed for Mars (or wherever) that have room for more swabbies?
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And is it really true about the park rangers in the Grand Canyon??!! If so, that is disgusting beyond belief.
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ContAltDel. We have a few extreme protestant villages here in the Netherlands. Now one of them (staphorst) has decided it will be illegal to light any fireworks on sunday, because it would interfere with the sunday-rest… Not that anyone NOT of their particular version of christianity would ever consider living there, but really.
I’m curious, if it’s true, if those rangers can actually say that with a straight face! If so, they should be considered for an oscar for best performance.
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Well, you can sign a petition to get the decision changed, and I for one wouldn’t be surprised.
What a good idea – we could have the FSM Oscar ceremony – but with pasta for the meal obviously.
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@ EgoN Halvax (I bet I spelled it wrong!)
Well, yes, I know – it was a sort of “Why, oh why, oh why?” kind of question – exasperated rhetorical I think I shall call it!
I have 2 small kids – 6 and 4 and I despair of the schools sometimes – in a way we are lucky cos we are in the UK, and they dilute the crap considerably, but they are both now wandering round holding their hands “in prayer” and whispering into them “talking to god” – they have no idea what god is really – a strange version of santa claus I think from what they say – but it is so hard to know what to say at their young age – both sets of grandparents are very religious, so while they are still around I don’t really want to say it is crap, just for their sakes, but I find them being taught to pray like that disconcerting to say the least, maybe we will tell them what we think when they stop believing in santa and the tooth fairy! Still, they both already know vaguely about the flying spaghetti monster, so we are onto a winner there!
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Grand Canyon?…. PARK rangers?!!……no AGE??!!.WHAT?!
Breath, girl, breath, there’s still hope.
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Booty,
I can sympathize, Matey. My two kids are nearly 5 and 2, and have already been exposed to a mild version of Christianity. I really don’t worry too much, because I know when they are old enough to rationally consider these cosmic questions, reason will be one of their intellectual tools. Of course my family, my wife’s family, and my wife herself all consider themselves Christians. To her credit, she agrees that there should never be such a thing as a “Christian child”, and she has no inclination to proselytize anyone, especially me. With a strong wind at my back she might one day be touched by His Noodly Appendage. At least I know my
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Sorry, my 2 year old submitted my post before I was finished with it. Scurvey little dog. Anyway, as I was saying, at least I know my kids will never be brainwashed, but it is very likely His Noodliness will one day show them the way to a beer-soaked, stripper filled eternity.
RAmen.
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Its good to see that the idea of religious freedom is getting noticed. Some Wiccans do scare me though, they bring all that magic crap with them and mess up everyone around them.
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As a Virginian, I love to see the progress of my home.
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@ContAltDel: Thats fucked up about the park rangers. Can they at least put in the word “estimated”?
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We need more fartwells and gw bushies.
Enough of these types, and mankind will wake up!
Who am I kidding? Their types have always been around, and it only seems to worsen.
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@Peter Popoff: “Their types” hit their peek in the 1950s and added the “Under God” to our Pledge of Allegiance. Lets hope that they don’t gain that much power again.
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@ Branded Cow
I’m not so sure they peeked in the fifties though.
We are just now learning, for instance… that old faithful is less then 2,000 years old.
Ramen
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Since putting a pirate fish sticker on my car my life has completely turned around. First, I’ve been unemployed for seven years – having retired from a position of importance in a very large semi-conductor company where I architected silicon processors. Upon putting the fish sticker on my car, the very next day I was offered a part-time fill-in position as a janitor at our local health club. I of course accepted and am making $8 an hour when one of the other janitors calls in sick. Next, I sold my old motorcycle helmet exactly two days after placing the sticker on my car. Last – but very important – the shrinkage of my penickular member – apparently the result of our house being filled with atomic clocks made in China – has stopped. This sticker is changing my life, I appear to have been touched by his Noodly Appendage.
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Welcome Pope dude!
May you be forever touched. And may your good luck continue!
Ramen
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Welcome Mr. BigisDickus! I certainly hope that the janitorial gig works into full-time for you. Swab that sweat! Congratulations on the shrinkage problem resolution as well. Bigis Dickus is kind of a must for proper sword fighting. Try buying some of those greeting cards. I bet those will bring you all sorts of luck.
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It is SepAration. This is really bothering me because I am a smug left-wing assclown spelling Nazi.
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You are truely blessed, Mr. BigisDickus, that in compensation for all that happening His Noodleyness has spared you from christianity
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um go druids? …. I mean YEA!!!! GO DRUIDS. Take that you pine tree stealing ignorant freaks. I alwayse find it awesome when freedom of religion blows up in conservative fundamentalist faces. “what you mean they get rights too….?†Little do they know freedom of religion means all religions, druids and fsm included.
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ya gotta love the druids.
@Branded Cow- why do Wiccans scare you? I like them. They’re very polite, and they don’t try to convert you. i also think thier beliefs are very interesting.
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Bobby, I realize that you guys may be out celebrating New Year’s Eve, but I’ve decided that if the spelling of “separation” isn’t correct by midnight, it’s a sign that Freddie Cat should come to live with you. Don’t worry; she’ll teach Nico to love Roomba.
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Re-Oared Marc–I’m right with you on the spelling/punctuation/grammar Nazism. Of course you’ve read “Eats, Shoots & Leaves” by Lynne Truss (and I truly wish I knew how to do italics or underlining in this program, knowing as I do that quotation marks are not to be used for a book title!). LOVE that book, as will even those who aren’t made miserable by others’ lack of fanaticism regarding language usage!
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Oh I’m hopeless, I didn’t even notice the spelling. I blame debating too many fanatics lately. I no longer have and decent comprehension of correct spelling or grammar.
RAmen
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Nikky–here’s what I’ve noticed about spelling, and when I was getting my degree in education I argued it with several professors. While there are many SMART people who CAN’T spell, there don’t seem to be any dumb people who can. I know kazillions of really intelligent people who can’t spell (still love you, Bobby!), and I really don’t think there’s a way to teach them how. You can teach them to use Spell Check and dictionaries and editors, but that’s about it. Correct spelling’s an inborn thing, and probably genetic. (There doesn’t seem to be an evolutionary preference for good spellers, though.) Fortunately or not, those of us who give a damn about it are in the minority! Martha
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@Cari’s mom (aka the mother-out-law)
“While there are many SMART people who CAN’T spell, there don’t seem to be any dumb people who can.”
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Hi Cari’s mom. :)
I’d agree, as that has been my observation as well.
I find it kind of hard to believe now, but through school I was always near the top for spelling. I often won spelling competitions in primary school and just seemed to have an instinct for it. The deterioration may also be due to my studies biological fields, which use a lot of Latin terminology, some of which still send my mind blank. I have a few half decent excuses up my sleeve now.
Hope you had a great Holiday, and are seeing in the New Year in a fitting fashion.
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Thinking deeper on that, maybe it’s one of those ‘left brain/right brain’ things.
Maybe ’sciency’ type people use one side (non-spelling/grammar side) and creative types use the other. Maybe.
Then, there are those that don’t have much of a brain to use either side.
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On the spelling thing – I have always been pretty good at spelling, but rubbish at maths, my other half is the other way around – we compliment each other nicely – I am his official spell checker and he does my adding up for me! I am fairly convinced you either get maths or spelling abilities, but rarely both. I do like correct spelling, but I know so many people who can’t do it that I learn to put up with a certain amount or mistakes, but I fully concur with Cari’s mom’s point.
Obviously in this setting typos have a lot to answer for as well – things you would never misspell if using a pen and paper come out horribly mangled.
I am not sure I have a point – it is 9:15 on New Years Morning here! But it is interesting to discuss.
Have a good new year all – here’s hoping we get a pirate ship :)
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Arrr. Another year dawns. I got Richard Dawkins book for Christmas and now here I am… There’s so much I wish I didn’t know! What will happen to these kids? If I remember my school years, not much of it will sink in anyway. The smart ones will sort it out and the dumb ones won’t. Happy New Yaaaaarrrr :)
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It’s strange, at school I only just scraped a C at GCSE english, but since leaving my spelling and punctuation have improved markedly. I blame crap teaching.
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@Beastly Rich – Hahaha. Me too (I was one of the last to take O’Levels). In my first year at uni. one of the lecturers said that pretty soon a degree would have to be four years instead of three. The first year would be to bring us up to an acceptable standard in maths and English. That was nearly 20 years ago! I wonder what he’d say now?
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Happy New Year everyone! I hope 2007 brings you all good things!
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Well, i know four languages and scraps of a few more, and I have trouble spelling in all of them. When I really don’t know how to spell a word I often select another one. I allways got (relatively) poor grades for languages, I’d get a 9 for texts (scores from 0-10,10 is all correct 6=just passed) but a 3 for writing. I know I probably make a fair number of errors on these pages, but well, I’ll post anyway!
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I’m with Booty on this one. HaHaHaHaHa.
If you open the door to nonsense who knows what will come through it.
I think the CoFSM should find a parent at that school willing to stage a FSM event and then finance it at its flyers.
I’d rather give money to that than buying a boat.
Particularly if the boat isn’t very big.
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Ah, the irony. Imagine that, freedom of religion applies to more then one religion. Shocking, truely.
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And spelling is my enemy. I can’t spell for crap…
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gill….”And spelling is my enemy. I can’t spell for crap…”
Hahaha – don’t worry about it. I’ve got a spell checker working in the background. You should see the drivel before I right click on the masses of red. It’s still drivel afterwards mind, just better spelled drivel :)
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@L’TUAE_42 Dec 31st, 2006 at 1:37 pm: I have had a couple bad experiences with emotionially unstable Wiccans preforming magical rights and shit like that. However I do agree with you that Pagans are very good about not pressing their religion on you. I guess there are weird people among every group and I just experienced the worst in Wicca too many times.
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@ Branded Cow, Hi how about them whacky christians?
Oh my… the things they do!
Ramen
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One more comment on spelling, and then I’ll stop (mostly because I know it bores the crap out of most people!). I pretty much have NO right brain–no artistic abilities, couldn’t navigate my way out of a paper bag, etc.–but spelling, grammar, math come easily. The only reason I bother Bobby about things like sepAration is because he’s responsible for the site, so HE HAS A DUTY, DAMMIT! In fact, I think that some of our earliest correspondence (after I told him he had to meet my daughters and fall in love with one of them) was of the bossy-editorial type. He was very sweet about it~~and fixed the problems! Martha p.s. I don’t care about the boat, because I doubt the mother-out-law will get to go on any voyages!
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I have a terrible confession to make……I get very seasick. Seriously, if I stay in the bath too long I start going green around the edges – do you think this will ruin my chances of getting into pastafarian heaven? and if I get to go on the pirate ship can we sail somewhere really calm with plenty of antisickness tablets?
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lol, my friends I seriously think we’ve gotten way off track and I’d like to bring up a point about the original topic of this thread…that of separation between church and state.
What’s happening here in the U.S. is frightening to me and I’d like to find out from like-minded individuals what we can and will do about it. We’re (as a nation) teaching our children ignorance and bigotry while other developed countries begin to pull ahead of us in education and innovation. Suggestions?
BTW, I recently wrote to my representative in congress regarding VA’s proposed constitutional ban on gay marriage. I asked her if it was an appropriate issue for her to be spending time on, rather than our education system, healthcare, econonmy, oil dependence, global warming, white house corruption, the fucking war in the middle east that we started….you know issues that actually matter to our country. Her response to me, in an official letter with her very-official looking signature stamp was: “The constitution provides for freedom of religion, not from religion.” In other words, America’s fucked.
These are the exact words of Rep. Jo Anne Davis, an elected official. Does anyone besides me see a problem with that statement?
What disappoints me about atheists (myself included) is that we’re so dedicated to our principals freedom of speech, live and let live etc…, that we’re not nearly as politically mobile as our right-wing counterparts. That’s why fundamentalism is gaining so much ground. We have a “believe whatever you want attitude,” while their’s is “believe what you want, we’ll just get people elected who will tell your kids what they’re allowed to believe.” It’s embarrassing that openly admitting you’re an atheist will almost certainly end your political career, despite your credentials. I would love to run for public office someday, but is it possible in this America?
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Booty Jan 1st, 2007 at 3:30 pm
I have a terrible confession to make……I get very seasick. Seriously, if I stay in the bath too long I start going green around the edges – do you think this will ruin my chances of getting into pastafarian heaven? and if I get to go on the pirate ship can we sail somewhere really calm with plenty of antisickness tablets?
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First time I went deep water fishing, on the great lake Erie, on a cabin cruiser.
I got sicker then hell! Spent a couple of hours heaving off the deck. Serious!
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I’ve been on a few boats since. But after that first time, I’ve never gotten sick again.
I say, tough it out! You’ll get used to it.
Ramen
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theAntibush Jan 1st, 2007 at 4:45 pm
lol, my friends I seriously think we’ve gotten way off track and I’d like to bring up a point about the original topic of this thread…that of separation between church and state.
What’s happening here in the U.S. is frightening to me and I’d like to find out from like-minded individuals what we can and will do about it. We’re (as a nation) teaching our children ignorance and bigotry while other developed countries begin to pull ahead of us in education and innovation. Suggestions?
BTW, I recently wrote to my representative in congress regarding VA’s proposed constitutional ban on gay marriage. I asked her if it was an appropriate issue for her to be spending time on, rather than our education system, healthcare, econonmy, oil dependence, global warming, white house corruption, the fucking war in the middle east that we started….you know issues that actually matter to our country. Her response to me, in an official letter with her very-official looking signature stamp was: “The constitution provides for freedom of religion, not from religion.†In other words, America’s fucked.
These are the exact words of Rep. Jo Anne Davis, an elected official. Does anyone besides me see a problem with that statement?
What disappoints me about atheists (myself included) is that we’re so dedicated to our principals freedom of speech, live and let live etc…, that we’re not nearly as politically mobile as our right-wing counterparts. That’s why fundamentalism is gaining so much ground. We have a “believe whatever you want attitude,†while their’s is “believe what you want, we’ll just get people elected who will tell your kids what they’re allowed to believe.†It’s embarrassing that openly admitting you’re an atheist will almost certainly end your political career, despite your credentials. I would love to run for public office someday, but is it possible in this America?
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I think, for the first time in this countrys history, an atheist has a chance at holding an office in politics.
We currently have a morom and a muslim, in office. Ten years ago, that would have been unheard of.
Thank GW and this last administration for making such a mockery of their own christian base.
Mainstream America, right now, today! Is looking for anything besides the christian horse shit.
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I say give it a shot! Run for office, if you run with the FSM as or only true belief, you’ll get my vote, for sure!
Ramen
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Alchemist- “It’s still drivel afterwards mind, just better spelled drivel :)” Well that makes all the difference! Honestly, without spell check I’d be screwed…the saddest part about that is my college major is hopefully gonna be creative writing. Don’t even ask me how that’s gonna work out, haha.
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I think it’s certainly EASIER for an athiest to get elected in America today; Jews and Muslims and so on seem to have broken–for the most part–that Protistant Christian Only mold, so I’d LIKE to think it’d work the same way for an athiest. Then again my world experience is rather limited as of yet, so I could be off.
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Peter – serious comment to a serious post.
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The UK has a fundamentalist Muslim situation. These men (usually the men, if a female muslim speaks out then she is often an english convert). They want nothing less than the conservative christians in your country want. Religious law.
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Burn the heretical books, make it a crime to say what you believe (if it’s not an acceptable belief, of course)
I have nothing against Muslims or Christians (I used to be one) but why, oh why, must they seek to impose their beliefs upon us? I’m a veggie – I don’t go around instructing people I don’t know not to eat meat!
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@theAntibush
I don’t live in the US, but I have a few links that may be of intertest to you. First is the Secular Coalition for America,
http://www.secular.org/
They employ a lobbyist who gives interviews, visits senators offices to represent the secular veiwpoint, organise against bad legislation etc. They also made the headlines by drawing up a ’secular scorecard’, ranking members of Congress by key 10 votes on issues like gay marriage etc. As expected, vote Democrat if you want a secular country, although it wasn’t fully black and white. In fact, in the last midterms, the secular coalition lost some moderate Republican allies. And the Democrats sometimes take a more religious tone to get more votes. Still, overall it was good to see the Democrats take control of Congress.
You mentioned atheists getting elected. Interestingly, the Secular coalition offered a prize for the person who would spot the highest-ranking elected official willing to acknowledge being non-theistic. The result will be announced soon.
You also mentioned ‘freedom of religion, not from religion’. Would your representative be surprised if she visited the Freedom from Religion foundation website, see
http://ffrf.org/
They have filed numerous lawsuits in situations where the secular nature of the US government was being violated, e. g. over the establishment of Bush’ faith-based initiative. See their press releases and media coverage sections for more info.
So you could do something by donating a bit to either of these organisations. They do the work for you, you can sit back and relax as you watch your donation being put to good use. It keeps my consience happy. Please come and join us.
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@theAntibush
I don’t live in the US, but I have a few links that may be of intertest to you. First is the Secular Coalition for America, http://www.secular.org
They employ a lobbyist who gives interviews, visits senators offices to represent the secular veiwpoint, organise against bad legislation etc. They also made the headlines by drawing up a ’secular scorecard’, ranking members of Congress by key 10 votes on issues like gay marriage etc. As expected, vote Democrat if you want a secular country, although it wasn’t fully black and white. In fact, in the last midterms, the secular coalition lost some moderate Republican allies. And the Democrats sometimes take a more religious tone to get more votes. Still, overall it was good to see the Democrats take control of Congress.
You mentioned atheists getting elected. Interestingly, the Secular coalition offered a prize for the person who would spot the highest-ranking elected official willing to acknowledge being non-theistic. The result will be announced soon.
You also mentioned ‘freedom of religion, not from religion’. Would your representative be surprised if she visited the Freedom from Religion foundation website, see ffrf.org
They have filed numerous lawsuits in situations where the secular nature of the US government was being violated, e. g. over the establishment of Bush’ faith-based initiative. See their press releases and media coverage sections for more info.
So you could do something by donating a bit to either of these organisations. They do the work for you, you can sit back and relax as you watch your donation being put to good use. It keeps my consience happy. Please come and join us.
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