57 Responses to “fsmdeco.JPG”
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21 - December 28th, 2006 at - Peter Popoff Says:
Wench Nikky Dec 28th, 2006 at 9:38 pm
Still no good! Last try:
http://richarddawkins.net/cat1_Reason,cat2_Political
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Excellent link Cole, er’ I mean Nikkiee.
I just bookmarked it. Too much for me to get through tonite.
Ramen -
22 - December 28th, 2006 at - Johnny Corvette Says:
Dawkins Website is always interesting.
I don’t really buy historical events such as the Crusades being driven by mans belief in a loving creator. It was governments, politics and organized religion entwined. Were there even such things as atheists in the time of the Crusades? So I understand when a theist responds with Hitler, Stalin, Mao, etc. It follows the same argument and both are off. People like to pretend that the sectarian violence in Iraq is religious. No it is politics, power and organized religion entwined. It’s which group gets to control the commodity (oil) and the government (people). It may not have been a war for oil originally but, it sure is now.
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23 - December 28th, 2006 at - Peter Popoff Says:
Wench Nikky Dec 28th, 2006 at 10:09 pm
Also, one of the biggest atrocities going on at present in the name of religious dogma, is the anti-comdom campaign in AIDS rife areas of developing countries. Many women in these places don’t even have the choice of consensual sex (â€abstainence solutionâ€) that is agressively pushed by missionaries from the religious right. Abstainence only preaching has been not only a dismal failure, but has seen rising numbers of AIDS cases where it has been implemented. The abstinence only growd and the governments that support them get quite a big chunk of the funding from Mr Bush.
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Oh Nikkiee, don’t get me started on the atrocities, that GW, has brought fourth.
That bastard has ruined my middle class economy, and smeared the name of my Country, and, well please don’t get me started on the asshole of the century.
Man, I hate that guy! -
24 - December 28th, 2006 at - Mad John Kidd Says:
@ Nikky
Wow, I read Sam’s article when it came up a few days ago, but the comments have really take off. I agree with Peter, it’s going to take awhile to get through all the Dec 27th-28th posts. Especially that DAR guy.
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25 - December 28th, 2006 at - Wench Nikky Says:
@Johnny Corvette
“It was governments, politics and organized religion entwined.”
Yep, you said it! It’s always about control of power. (which pretty much equates to control of rescources… people or otherwise.) If some can persuade people, by some means, to go along with their politics, great for them. If not, just force them by exiling/executing your detractors, as history has shown.
RAmen@Wench Nikky Dec 28th, 2006 at 10:09 pm
“anti-comdom” ??
hmm…what is a comdom? I’m pretty sure I meant condom there. -
26 - December 28th, 2006 at - Wench Nikky Says:
@Mad John Kidd
“but the comments have really take off. ………… Especially that DAR guy.”Yeah, he was a god send (so to speak :) to the discussion. I stayed out, but am still following along. I don’t much get into the atheist/theist dogma fight, but always take an interest when historical events are held up to support one or the other.
There is always that insinuated imorality/morality behind it.
Following it was becoming time consuming for me too. I’ll check back on it a bit later. -
27 - December 28th, 2006 at - Johnny Corvette Says:
Yes using religion or nationalism or Marxism or Hutu-ism or stupid-ism or any other –ism that can be used to whip up a crowed will pretty much work. Religious-ism is just the easiest.
Also, just to note the USA promotes ABC of HIV prevention (C is for condom) and has for some time in Africa and elsewhere with a lot of success. http://www.usaid.gov/our_work/global_health/aids/TechAreas/prevention/condomfactsheet.html
I am not behind the Catholic church’s stance on this at all - http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4081276.stm
However, I don’t expect the church to govern either. I don’t believe a religious organization should be forced to make a political stand that would be against it doctrine.
If the church has a strong voice in Africa (it does) with many adherents then why don’t these adherents listen to the fidelity and abstinence sermon. And what makes anyone think they would listen to a condom sermon? A big problem in Africa is in the countries where culturally sex is taboo and taking (literally) many wives is common.
Additionally, the USA gives a lot of money to just about everyone- governments, churches, NGO, etc. This is true when Bush is not the president too.
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28 - December 28th, 2006 at - Johnny Corvette Says:
BTW – I liked Sam Harris’ 10 myths article but it strikes me he is back pedaling just a tad. In “The end of faith†and “Letter ..†and several of his articles are pretty accusatory of religion being the wellspring of all modern violence or some such thing. He doesn’t seem to like when atheists are accused of something similar.
Aye I sees the argument as gittin’ ever more polarized I do. I best be sharpenin’ me cutlass for the great battle ahead. Arrgh.
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29 - December 28th, 2006 at - Wench Nikky Says:
What is the atheist dogma though? I’m a non beleiver in any religion, other than the FSM, and would be considered an atheist by a xtian. Does it then follow, that I myself must follow some sort of athiest creed/dogma?
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30 - December 28th, 2006 at - Wench Nikky Says:
It appears that there is some well supported evidence provided that Hitler, was in fact, not an atheist, nor following any atheist creed. He was a nationalist following a nationalist creed.
Stalin was a communist following a communist creed, ect ect. So just what is this atheist code of conduct/immorality that all those considered, by the theists, to be atheists adhere to? To find this out is the reason I follow those discussions. However, I’m uninformed as to the atheist system of “belief” at present. -
31 - December 28th, 2006 at - Johnny Corvette Says:
The dogma that people of faith are wrong?
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32 - December 28th, 2006 at - Peter Popoff Says:
Wow! Folks, I’ve been trying, subtly, to convert people on a www. forum.
It’s not going so well, talk about ignorance! Geez! -
33 - December 28th, 2006 at - Johnny Corvette Says:
I am not sure Nikky - but I would not consider Nazism or Stalinism of Maoism religious.
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34 - December 28th, 2006 at - Wench Nikky Says:
So this underlies the atrocities of leaders such as Hitler and Stalin? They committed those in the name of getting rid of any people of faith?
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35 - December 28th, 2006 at - Johnny Corvette Says:
I have to admit many atheist I speak with seem to sound just like Marxists.
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36 - December 28th, 2006 at - Peter Popoff Says:
Johnny Corvette Dec 28th, 2006 at 11:33 pm
The dogma that people of faith are wrong?
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That does not fall into the description of “dogma”
Maybe the description of opinion?
At least in the reference you are using here. -
37 - December 28th, 2006 at - Mad John Kidd Says:
I like our prophet Bobby’s idea that Pastafarians reject dogma. In fact the Gospel says that, “Our rejection of dogma is so strong that we leave open the possiblity that there is no FSM at all. All we ask is proof of His nonexistence.” But I’m sure you already know that.
My point is that who cares what category “they” lump us into, as long as we can remain open-minded about our beliefs of any sort, then dogma really never enters into the mix. I think “they” often confuse arrogance with dogma. Arrogance is more on a personal level, while dogma is about overriding principals. Scientists can often seem to fall into these traps just as easily as the fundies because scientists are professional nit-pickers. Obviously the difference is that accuracy is at stake, not lost souls.
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38 - December 28th, 2006 at - Wench Nikky Says:
@Johnny Corvette
“but I would not consider Nazism or Stalinism of Maoism religious.”
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This is what I was suggesting in my last post. It may not have been up when you posted.
(I’m kinda rushing my posts as I have to take off)However, the common theist argument, which I have come across many times, usually refers to the atheism (and by relation…an atheist creed) of those leaders (not the movement) in refererence to atheistic immorality, rather than their overall power agendas. This is what I have been getting at.
Many citizens of those regimes didn’t have a choice as to whether they were part of these regimes. Some well known higher ranks of Hitlers inner circle (so to speak) were openly religious.
The theists appear to be very careful about these issues when arguing the nazi atrocities can be attributed to an atheist mindset.
I’ll have to pick this up later. Behind schedule on some other stuff.
RAmen -
39 - December 28th, 2006 at - Mad John Kidd Says:
Nikky—”So this underlies the atrocities of leaders such as Hitler and Stalin? They committed those in the name of getting rid of any people of faith?”
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Not sure about Stalin, but Hitler was in fact a devout Catholic. Atheism does not explain his actions in the least. Megalomania does. But he was always working under the assumption that his was doing god’s will. This explains his persecution of the Jews.
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40 - December 28th, 2006 at - Johnny Corvette Says:
So what we are saying is that if proof of a divine god emerges - such as a piece of toast with the image of Jesus on it. Then we will all be on bended knee? I am guessing even with some stronger evidence like rivers of fire or some such thing we (me included ) would not believe in God. That seems to be dogmatic.
