Right, you are some geek sitting up in your one bedroomed appartment thinking of ways to get kicks out of life. Now u have captured my best mate and i wont stop until FSM is expossed as the shabby, bare walled, well conducted piece of rubbish that it is.
I mean a flying spaghetti monster? i think you need to see a pyshologist mate. you have serious problems.
by the way, have you stopped to consider the effects your little game will cause?
i think you have just split up me and my friend. oh yeh i wanna say thanks, thanks for ruining my life.
-rebecca
Here’s a short list of 30 contradictions in the Bible : http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/contra/short.html . There are links on the top left of that page to more contradictions (about 380 in total). And that’s after 20 centuries of ‘tidying up’ the original texts!
@Cindy
Dear Dear Cindy,
quote:”Both were probably put there with the intent for them to be followed always, but they probably didn’t realize that in the future it’d be harder to get sick from eating such things.”
Couldn’t God see the future and know that sanitation would be improved eventually? Surely he could have put a addendum or something along the lines of “Dietary requirements subject to change on the basis of future technological breakthroughs”.
Furthermore, according to the Christian theology of which you appear to be an adherent, these ‘dietary requirements’ were removed (along with the whole Mosaic Law) with the advent of the New Covenant - ie. around 30AD. However, we had to wait a futher 1900 years at least until sanitation/hygiene/technology made it possible to store meats such as pork in warmer climes. You will have to think again on that one.
In response to the rest of your post(s) firstly let me say I appreciate your efforts to remain reasonable: a good foundation for any discussion, as you know.
However, remember that reasoning must always follow in a linear fashion (very noodle like if you ask me). ie. There is a starting point and an ending point (which of course may lead to more starting points for NEW lines of reasoning). What we must avoid always is circular reasoning: where the conclusion of our reasoning process is also its basis.
e.g.
1. There is a God (Proposition).
2. He must have a purpose. (Assumption).
3. He must have spoken to us, to tell us his purpose. (Supposition based on 2).
…
N. God’s purpose is clearly presented in the bible (conclusion assumes the existence of God without demonstrating it).
Since we cannot ‘prove’ the existence of God (something you accept) it follows logically that we cannot say that the bible (or any other text) IS his word (we can’t prove that an unprovable thing has provably spoken). So no offence, but quoting scripture here is pointless.
You try to bridge the gap between the irrational fundamentalist position (the bible is completely and inerrantly true), and one that recognises the blatant problems by finding rational explanations which allow you to excuse those ‘difficulties’ in the text.
This is a predictable response to ‘cognitive dissonance’, experienced where the worldview (e.g. the bible) is not consonant with observable/experienceable reality. For some the reaction is to shut off and become aggressive when challenged (the typical fundamentalist reaction - who, incidently, would call your sort ‘liberals’ and ‘apostates’).
One thing the FSM helps to achieve is a break between the first two milestones of ID/YEC ‘logic’:
1. There is a God, the totality of creation testifies to that.
2. The genesis creation account is correct (all other ideas on the existence of life are incorrect) ‘God’ is the God of the Bible.
The Pastafarian argument is simply this: “Given the proposition that life arose by intelligent design, why is your intelligent designer any better than ours? Yours is a 3 in one godhead with a penchant for favouritism and smiting, ours is made of pasta and meatballs. Even ASSUMING the existence of God through the arguments of ID, it does not follow that said God is the Jehovah/Lord/Jesus/Holy Spirit of the Judeo-Christian system any more than it is a a Flying Spaghetti Monster.
I hope you can follow this (apols for the length).
RAmen
FSM: Welcome Him as your Lord and Savour.
I never said “my” God was better than yours. I apologize for making the assumption that your god was a mere illustration of the faults of mine. If anyone truly believes the world was created by pasta, by all means go ahead, but I was under the impression that this site wasn’t about an actual religion, but rather a satire of one. That would leave one to the assumption that since “my” god is actually believed by millions, it is probably more realistic. Of course, this is only an assumption since millions of people could believe that peanut butter is made from elephant toenails, and it doesn’t make it anymore true. And you have a good point with the dietary thing. It completely voids my arguement. I’m a little ashamed to have over-looked that. lol. Perhaps we are still held accountable to those rules, and ignorant fools who decided that shellfish was a pretty tasty dinner decided that they didn’t like that part of the Bible so they just excluded it. Don’t you hate when people do that? “This is the Holy Word, and I follow it to the T….well, I follow all the parts that I haven’t scratched out anyway.” lol. And then you’ve got Churches that add more in, like Josheph Smith when he created Mormonism, and then later in life converted to Muslim I believe. :). The world is full of hypocrites. Just look at Darwin, your founder of the Evolution Theory. On his death bed he claimed that it was all a hoax, simply an act of rebelion toward his father. Of course, that doesn’t make evolution less true, because Darwin may have just had a change of heart because of a fear of death. oh gosh… I’m rambling… hopefully you get my point. No belief is flawless, because I don’t think anyone has it completely right (yeah, not even me:p). Some may come close, but geeze, we’re just people, no one understands the meaning of life. Not until they die anyway. I guess that’s the only way to really know. :)
oh, sorry moochie, I scrolled over your post, and will now respond as breifly as possible. I suppose in your terms I would be considered more of a Christian Fundamentalist. I do believe evry word in the Bible to be God-given and true. I don’t consider three God’s in one to be a “footnote”. However, being that I believe it all, when Jesus came and said he was the Ultimate Sacrifice, and tat we no longer had to sacrifice for our sins, or die for them, it fufilled a lot of the OT rules. It didn’t erase them. It’d be like someone asking me to pick up their pen on the floor, and someone else coming and doing it for me. It stilled had to be done, I just didn’t have to do it. Anyways, that is why we don’t sacrifice, and stone people anymore. I am planning on going to that site. I’m not afraid to test my beliefs, because if I am blatantly proven to be wrong, then why believe it? If there is proof that it is false, why wouldn’t I want to save myself the trouble of spending a life according to something that doesn’t exist? lol. thanx for the link.
I’m sorry, Cindy. I thought you were further along the path of honest re-evaluation of your religion than you actually are. If you genuinely embrace open-minded and critical rationalism, then you have a rocky ride ahead. Many have been in your position. Sadly, the vast majority find questioning their faith is too uncomfortable, and they slip back into whatever snug little theological nest they’ve constructed. Any subsequent attempts to prompt them into ‘doubting’ results in the all-too-common reaction of hands over the ears and a steady La-la-la-la-go-away-la-la. I really, really hope, having opened your heart to us, that this debasing, intellectual sclerosis is not your fate.
>
Your response to SpaghettiSawUs is, I’m afraid to say, rather poorly made. You’ve missed the point of his/her post, and then compounded the error by repeating one of the classic religious hoaxes (Darwin’s death-bed conversion). Sorry, but even Young Earth Creationists are embarrassed that this lie still surfaces from time to time. A detailed consideration, by fundamentalist scholars, is here:
http://www.answersingenesis.org/creation/v18/i1/darwin_recant.asp . Whoever told you about Darwin probably also suggested that Einstein was strongly religious and that Hitler was an atheist. Probably best to avoid these, as they’re not true.
>
I’m afraid I will never be able to get my head around the idea of a triple god, who kills part of himself, but only temporarily, and that this somehow makes future human sins ok. No point beating around the bush .. if you can believe that kind of twisted nonsense, and not blush with embarrassment, then there’s little hope.
>
Anyway, I hope you keep writing. I urge you to read more around these subjects and look forward to our next encounter.
Actually, having mentioned Darwin, Einstein and Hitler, here’s a list of arguments that Young Earth Creationists suggest believers should avoid using when attempting to prove god’s existence: http://www.answersingenesis.org/home/area/faq/dont_use.asp
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Sorry if this bursts any bubbles. However, if you spend any time on the Answers in Genesis site, you’ll learn some new arguments. If you have any scientific learning in your background, some of their ideas will appeal to you. Feel free to bring any such ideas to the table. Hopefully we’ll be able to offer alternative explanations, based on real science. This won’t be the same as a gentle discussion with your friends .. only start down this course if you know you’re robust enough to deal with the implications.
>
ps. ALL mentions of FSM, even if apparently earnest, are made with tongue in cheek. The idea behind FSM is serious enough, though. Go back over SpaghettiSawUs’ post with that in mind .. look at his/her use of language .. you’ll get it.
-Right, you are some geek sitting up in your one bedroomed appartment thinking of ways to get kicks out of life. Now u have captured my best mate and i wont stop until FSM is expossed as the shabby, bare walled, well conducted piece of rubbish that it is.
Ouch? Luckily FSM’ism isn’t based around indoctrinating people, they join it of their own free will, if anything your friend escaped you :P Besides it’s a free country… someone can believe whatever they want.
-I mean a flying spaghetti monster? i think you need to see a pyshologist mate. you have serious problems.
Why are you addressing only one person when you’re trying to insult thousands..? :P maybe you should actually read about FSM’ism.
by the way, have you stopped to consider the effects your little game will cause?
Jihad between those of the linguini and the ramen..? Wait no FSM’ism doesn’t breed fanaticism =)
i think you have just split up me and my friend. oh yeh i wanna say thanks, thanks for ruining my life.
Shouldn’t you be talking to your friend, giving up your ideological fascist stance and letting him/her believe whatever they want? If anything you split you and your friend up. Unfortunately I can’t go find the author of the bible and blame the crusades on him =P Maybe you already know this which is why you’re just trying to lay blame on something rather than trying to get back with your friend. Facing reality is scary eh.
-jeff
“you’re a complete idiot”
.
.
Why is it you can’t find any partial idiots?
Ahoy SCJ,
.
Maybe “partial idiot” is a misnomer.
Perhaps “Incomplete Idiot” or better yet,
“Idiot in Training” should be the accepted term.
.
Danke…. and RAmen.
It’s nice to see people talking intelectually about the Bible, instead of just reading it t each other. One of my friends’ (don’t get mad at me, I didn’t say this) favorite fantasy adventure books is the Bible. I believe that, like all religion, science, etc., it has truth and theory in it. I do not deny that a man named Jesus lived. I do not deny he was trusted and loved by many people. I do, however, question (not deny) that he was a Miracle person, that he was desended of God, and so forth etcetera.
Could perhaps Raz or someone else say why they believe God decided to go in for this creation thing in the first place?
As a perfect being or whatever, he/she could not possibly have any needs, and must surely not require or want anything else. Why go to all the trouble of designing a great big universe?
And to serve what purpose?
Interested to have your ideas.
my friend told me the other day that he has proof against god and my other friend told him that is impossible… the two of them are 15 years of age…and handled this better than you and your friend… the first one told him his proof and the other one denied it and said but did not fuss or scream about it and when he rejected the idea my “god believing” friend was not upset… you should grow up!
-Blake M. Freedman “Faithful Pastafarian”
oh yea…i would also like to point out Raz’s quote “Unfortunately I can’t go find the author of the bible and blame the crusades on him” This would be very hard because an idealist would look for the man who wrote the bible arround the time frame from Christ’s death to about 50 C.E. but a person who knows better would know they would find them 300 years later in the years 300-350 C.E. Why would he wait so long to write this? May some of the stories been mixed up allong the way? And is it possible that the Egyptians (who worshiped Anubis, the dog guy) influenced this? Maybe when translating Egyptian they spelt Dog wrong…maybe somthing more like God… so you guys might acctually be worshoping a Dog… now does that make you insane…NO and neither does worshiping a flying spaghetti monster.
Aar! I be sayin’ this in yer landlubbin’ language, so read on.
wow, take a chill pill. I for one am not Pastafarian, although I’m standing up for you guys, and I’ve been thinking about it, so it’s a possibility that I will become Pastafarian.
Anyways, this parody religion may appear to be rubbish to you, but when you really think about it, it’s just as plausible and probable as Catholic, Christian, Jewish (and any other religion’s) beliefs. It’s not actually hurting anyone anyhow.
Besides, MOST of us need to see a psychologist, no matter who we are. We just don’t realize it. I know I should probably see one, and so should… hang on lemme count…. pretty much all of my friends, so maybe you should check your head too before you point the finger, saying that people need to see a psychologist.
You also really should just let your friend believe whatever the @#!%# he/she wants to believe.(I’ve edited myself for content here.) Just cause you think that Pastafarianism is a load of rubbish doesn’t mean you have to have a fit and lose a friend over it. If you’re gonna let a friend go that easily, see my last paragraph.
As for a game… *blinks* Do you know what a game is? Seriously, look it up. A game is like… Monopoly. or Endless Online. The Flying Spaghetti Monster is obviously not a game to your friend, so maybe you should just smoke some weed or something to calm down. Seriously, whatever you need to do to calm down and not freak out about meaningless crap, do it. Now…. Then maybe your friend will be nice to you again. And you ruined your own life by flipping out by the way.
Oh yeah. that God? Pasta? What has more letters? guy makes a very good point. Worshiping spaghetti does not make you insane, flipping about the TINY little things in life(beliefs for example) does.
A word of advice to others who send in hate mail… your name goes up on the site. You will be hated afterwards.
So anyways, rebecca, have fun with the calmingdownness. And remember, put on some soothing music. *smiles*
Rodger the cabin boy may be on to something. Perhaps Rebecca’s friend is a midget and WAS locked up in a cage! And Rebecca, misunderstanding Bobby’s assertion that he does NOT approve of such treatment, blamed Bobby! Just one more of life’s little misunderstandings.
Midgets in cages… oh crap!
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Got to go! Forgot to do something!
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OEJ
A-HA! So it wasn’t Bobby. OEJ, how could you? was it a kinky thing or what? I won’t tell,…I promise.
mate?
After reading Rebecca’s message I thought I would try and bedroom my apartment. It turned out to be a lot more difficult than I expected. I came home after acquiring various supplies from the shops and try as I did, I just couldn’t bedroom my apartment.
Does anyone have any advice on how my apartment can be “bedroomed”?
“I mean a flying spaghetti monster?”
Rebecca, I think it’s a little unfair to ask us if you mean a flying spaghetti monster.
DO you mean a flying spaghetti monster? I don’t know, unfortunately I can’t help you with that question, but maybe someone else can, a psyhologist perhaps?
Well, I’m sure your belief system is a well educated guess like your spelling and you don’t discriminate against others like you discriminate against capital letters and punctuation.
@Penne
“A-HA! So it wasn’t Bobby. OEJ, how could you? was it a kinky thing or what?……”
Penne, I too was intrigued by OEJ’s post. Please explain OEJ????