flimsy moral standards? Lets see here.
If I were to shoot your wife, would you have a problem with that?
-michael martin
if i were to shoot your wife
Published by Bobby Henderson November 24th, 2006 in Hate Mail (and concerned criticism). 694 Comments
694 Responses to “if i were to shoot your wife”
Flimsy is not the same thing as non-existant, and if you shot my (hypothetical) wife what exactly would that say about your moral standards?
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The good ol’ “I’d be a homicidal maniac if it weren’t for gawd”-line of reasoning… Fortunately, the FSM gave most of us rationally minded folks the mental capacity to establish baseline moral standards that can stand on their own outside of our faith.
Shooting wives is wrong in most cases, irregardless of what the FSM thinks.
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My (also hypothetical) wife is protected by the flying spaghetti monster, so I would say nothing.
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My moral standards would say that if you shot my (hypothetical) wife, you’d be put in jail for a LOOOOOOONNG time.
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Flimsy morals don’t mean we don’t HAVE morals, which is obviosly your case since you even suggested such an awfull thing. Flimsy morals mean we like drinking, partying, mabye a little debochary on the side and breaking those stupid firework regulations.
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I’m underaged and sadly canot have a wife… :(. But hypothetically let’s say I do, if you shoot my wife, I’d shoot your wife. You insult my religion, I insult your religion.
Priests touch little boys!
RAmen
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The good Doktor gets his own thread. This should be interesting.
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Normally I try to be polite. But you are a sick freak. What type of person even suggests such a thing? If you are this violent in your beliefs, perhaps you ought to consider a tour of duty in the military? Whatever the case, don’t post on religous websites, even satrical ones.
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@ OOM- this WON’T be interesting. He’s an egotistic little spud who like copying and pasting.
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come on guys he just doesn’t understand the difference between flimsy and non existent. in christianity you only get black and white which is fitting as God is both flimsy and non existent
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@poster. Nice argument. I don’t have a wife. If you tried to shoot one of my loved ones (be they ex-girlfriends, my parents or my dog) I would quite happily try to stop you.
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Are you still taking the meds? Tell your doc. that you are having naughty thoughts – s/he
will increase your dose.
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I would appreciate you not shooting my wife. I need to go first so I can hit the beer volcano and swing by the stripper factory before she hooks up with me.
RAmen
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i love it how people say that without god they would be fucked. i think most of the people in the world who have god are already fucked. just look at the middle east and the south. not much peace with terrorists, racists, and ignorant dumbasses.
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If you were to shoot my wife I would be glad because that would signify that i actually managed to get a wife in the first place.
And also, she would be protected by a wall of holy noodly appendages so the bullet would do nothing anyway.
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Whats all this talk of wives anyway, who needs one? (or a husband for that matter) marriage is one of the god squad rituals it should make no difference to rational minds.
thats what my parrot says anyway
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Welcome back Doc. Got bored without us, eh? You must like this site, I wonder why.
If you were an atheist, you would have other (more rational) reasons for behaving the way you behave today (and thus NOT shooting anyone – unless you’re a complete psycho which I would not totally exclude). There are very profane reasons why people do what they do. The God illusion just saves them from having to think about their real reasons.
May you be touched by His Noodly Appendage.
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“If I were to shoot your wife”
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You’d go to your hell.
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Very, very quickly.
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“If I were to shoot your wife”
I’d tear out your left anterior descending artery.
Cheers.
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Yeah, issant murder one of those commandment thingies?
That was sarcasm, by the way I know for a fact it’s one.
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“If I were to shoot your wife, would you have a problem with that?”
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I would really love to see the original context of this statement. I’ve followed some of DMM’s posts, but they have been too numerous to read them all. I don’t recall this statement.
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Anyone have a link to the original post?
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I really just don’t get the Doc’s arguement here. He shoots my (hypothetical) wife and I’m morally at fault? WTF?
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Sorry for bringing Godwin into this, but that’s like saying, “Hitler killed a lot of Jews, that makes you a terrible person.”
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@OEJ
Go to ‘FSM Holiday Cards are here’. I think he’s trying to make some sort of arguement agaist us when I mentioned our flimsy moral standards.
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Thank-you, Just Guess.
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I see the original post now. Seems to me that DMM was making the point that our (FSM) moral standards are not so flimsy. In fact, we would have a problem with murder of a loved one.
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That point is certainly different than the one that we see when it is taken out of the context of the thread.
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I don’t think we do a service to ourselves by pulling this statement out of context and lambasting it. Especially when DMM has said so many other things that are ripe for discussion.
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OEJ
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@OEJ
I don’t quite understand. Even in the original context he still seems to come across as an a**hole to me.
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Anna – sarcasm – it is good, really.
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@Michael Martin – re shoot your wife. Hi there – you sound like a patriotic fellow.
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Women eh- sometimes you just have to give them a slap, eh? How dare they criticise you.
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You pathetic little man.
RAmen
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he just took the original “flimsy moral standards” comment a bit to seriously and, i think, tried to make some kind of point but got a bit confused along the way.
If your reading mr Martin, please clarify
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yup,he’s a crazy fundie alright. I guess that proves it.
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I already shot my wife…!
Jesus made me do it..!
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Davey Jones’ Hacker–Naw, he’d pray to Jesus and be perfectly ok. Nice little religion he’s got going on over there, sounds to me like the perfect excuse to go out and stab someone.
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re-Anna-issant murder one of those commandment thingies
Actually, and I hope that you dont take this the wrong way Anna, murder per se is not forbidden in the ten commandments if you look you’ll notice that god forbids us from killing.
This is different in that farmers kill plants and animals every day and everyone else aids them in it by eat all the dead things that they killed. Also currently our bodies, including that of Mikey the Psychopathic Fundy, are killing thousands of bacteria right now! According to the book those people (you know the ones) read breaking one commandment is equivalent to breaking all of them. This means in essence that everyone, Christians included, are constantly committing every possible “sin”. Annnd what that means, is that any time that the fundies critisise non-Christians for “sinning” they are being hippocrits(sp?). I know that that was common knowledge but I had an uncontrollable urge to critisise that bad, bad, infidel fundy person.
RAmen
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Considering that you’re presenting your own moral standards by giving an action you would perform, the point is kind of null wouldn’t you say?
Flimsy moral standards is more a way of saying we love hookers and what not.
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i think the good doc doesn’t seem to realize that christianity is just one religion out of many. he seems to forget that if his one religion is absolutely correct, then all the other religions would be false and would go to hell. that makes me think, is christianity that nice.
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also, just because he went to college doesn’t make him a brilliant person. he just uses that as an excuse to make him self seem more brilliant than what he isn’t. i wonder if creation science applies to buddism, hinduism, and all the other world religions. it wouldn’t be fair for just one religion to exclude other religions now would it.
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i hope that creation science, if it ever were to be taken seriously, would benefit his noodly appendage
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RAmen
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Mr Happypants – I think you’re mis-reading the commandment… supposadly a better translation would be read “do not kill other Jews” so you get to kill as many non-believers as you want. Nice moral guideline, eh?
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michael martin – His Noodleness spoke to me about morality a few nights ago after I had polished off eight beers and three plates of spaghetti and meatballs, and He told me that He’s generally cool with us doing as we please, as long as it doesn’t hurt anyone else. These are what are often referred to as “flimsy moral standards”. However, in the case shooting someone’s wife, this doesn’t fall under the case because it hurts the wife (as well as her husband) and interferes with her own freedom to continue to do things. However, if you wanted to go out and booze it up, you’re only hurting your own body, as long as you don’t get violent. Along those same lines, if you want to go make an idol of a fake god (the christian god, allah, buddah, etc), He isn’t going to get all bothered and strike you down like those other gods supposably will, but never seem to do very often because fake gods cant really strike anybody down.
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This whole line of reasoning can be applied to lots of other cases… for instance making little lies that don’t hurt anybody isn’t a problem, like “hi friend i like your new haircut” when the haircut is hiddeous, but “hi blind friend the street is clear you can cross it” when there’s a truck coming is right out.
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The Doc has already made it clear that he believes that the Christian god is the only god and that everyone who doesn’t believe in his god will spend eternity in hell. Plus, since Pergatory seems to be going by the wayside, this means that billions will go directly to hell without a respite and a glass of lemonade. I just feel sorry for all of the babies that die before accepting Jesus as their saviour. Hell will get mighty noisy with all the screaming, burning babies.
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@one oared marc
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wow, that is a scary thought. of course, the doc loves god more than all the babies so he probably won’t care. what a loving doctor.
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Bobby should send a copy of that e-mail to his boss,I don’t think they’d like being associated with someone who makes death threats against people.It’s bad press:(
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One thing I don’t understand is the attraction of Christianity. So this one guy goes around talking and acting like a hippie. That I’m cool with. But then he gets executed as a common criminal, and three days later he comes back as a zombie. Why would you worship a zombie? Is Xtianity actually a death cult in disguise? On top of that, they tell you thay you’re supposed to eat his flesh and drink his blood. It’s been 2000 years since he died. Aren’t they worried that stuff isn’t fresh anymore, and why would I want to eat zombie meat? Won’t that make me a zombie too? Oh wait…
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You’d be beating me to the punch, or shot, I guess. I’ve been kicking this very idea around for quite some time. She’s not even my wife yet, evil bitch. You bein’ a doc and all, don’t shoot her in the side to watch her suffer. Go ahead and get yer submachine gun and finish the low-down, triflin’ woman off.
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LMAO, ankla1.com, I should have listened to you instead of Jesus (or Doc) – you give much better instructions. Well.., I may get a second chance anyhow – I remarried!
BTW, I loved your ‘seis chorreao’ and heavy metal mix in Deceit. I never heard anything like it before. Good job..!
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Holy smokes! A kindred. This is neither the time nor place… we meet at dawn, just by that brand new pirate ship. Synchronize watches as the noodly-rogers rises. Then we step ahead to the steep trails en route to the beer volcanoes and stripper factories. As we ascend to meet his noodly greatness we turn back to glimpse the christians in their scattered existence, still alive, yet sinking in the realization that their seasons never change. They will in time rot in holes, just like all the other non-believers! Not us, matey! RAmen, bitches.
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@Penny, i dont think he was making a death threat, just trying to make a point (even if it was a moronic one)
@Zok, i dont think budhists beleive that budda is a god and they certainly don’t beleive that he strikes anyone down, there actually quite a peacefull, open minded bunch. Budhism is the only mainstream religion that has never had a war, they preach respect, peace and understanding, they do not condone violence of any sort against any species and are generally quite chilled out. While i do respect their moral standing i see no reason for the religious overtones. However i do not think they deserve to be lambasted in the same way as theistic religions, as Just guess pointed out to me (and i entirely agreed), they are something quite different.
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@OEJ, I believe you are right. DMM was just trying to be pleasant — and to goad us into the “moral absolutes” argument. Hehehe.
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If we were to pick a DMM quote that really is despicable, I would pick the following:
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“We are to judge fairly. There’s nothing wrong at all with judging people as according to an accurate well read Exegesis. All I can say is that if they believe in Jesus Christ, they’re going to heaven. If they don’t, they’re not. What I can not do is say that you are wrong because you’re stupid…or something lame like that. But as far as judging, where does the Bible state that we not judge people?”
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Thanks OOM, for the recap, i too agree with OEJ. Having read the quote above however, i do see that it is entirely unreasonable not to beleive in Jesus, after all he is the son of God and if you dont beleive in him, after all the evidence, then you bring the consequences on yourself. I also thought it was nice of the good doctor not to call us stupid, althoughe i do feel rather foolish after considering his reasoning. All these years of ignorance and sin….i deserve to go to HELL!.
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Serves her right for gathering sticks on the sabbath.
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“Serves her right for gathering sticks on the sabbath.”
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Yes, God does not look kindly upon those who gather fagots.
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for those who might not know, a fagot is a bundle of sticks.
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Ah yes, I remember the long cold winters when my grandmother would say, “Toss another fagot on the fire.”
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If you were to shoot my hypothetical wife I would have to ask you “What the hell man?” Seriously what does that have to do with my moral standerds besides showing if it’s against my morals to beat a mentaly retarted maniac who just killed my wife to death with his own pelivs.
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ahem…
Fagot, a noun, is defined as a ‘bundle’ of items. It is not just limited to grandma’s sticks; it can also include congressmen, and fundies.
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So we can burn congressmen and fundies now? [Cartman voice]sweet…[/Cartman voice]
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Chaos, are you familiar with the word, pun?
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I’ve gathered a few sticks in my time. But, I guess we’ll burn in hell.
“Photographers snip snap
Take your time she’s only burning
This kind of experience
Is necessary for her learning
If you’ll be my flotsam
I could be half the man I used to
They said you were hot stuff
And that’s what baby’s been reduced to…”
Brian Eno
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@Just Guess
[QUOTE]So we can burn congressmen and fundies now? sweet…[/QUOTE]
No..!
Who would then be left to annoy me and molest my children?
@Mad John Kidd
[QUOTE]Chaos, are you familiar with the word, pun?[/QUOTE]
I intended for my comment to be understood as rhetorical humor. I must admit, it was also meant to piss off right-wing fundamentalists.
Arrr!
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dokta martin:
6. I’d Really Rather You Didn’t Build Multimillion-Dollar Churches/Temples/Mosques/Shrines To My Noodly Goodness When The Money Could Be Better Spent (Take Your Pick):
i) Ending Poverty
ii) Curing Diseases
iii) Living In Peace, Loving With Passion, And Lowering The Cost Of Cable
I Might be a Complex-Carbohydrate Omniscient Being, But I Enjoy The Simple Things In Life. I Ought To Know. I AM the Creator.
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Please compare our morals to those of the YECs and IDiots. who spend billions on their propaganda machine. Including, but not limited to, a multi-million dollar YEC museum (with 6000 thousand year old dinosaurs I might add??), as well as paying people like you to use your massive ego and arrogance to try and beat peaceful Pastafarians into submission to your whacko beliefs.
RAmen
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@Wench Nikkiee
There’s a reason why fundies don’t spend money on purely altruistic goals. They believe that non-Christians don’t deserve things like respect, kindness, and charity. Any money they do spend on will always somehow also advance their selfish goals.
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For a breakdown of how fundies actually think, visit this site.
http://exfundie.blogspot.com/2004/11/how-fundamentalists-think-introduction.html
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It’s a blog of a former fundie, and he paints a very disturbing picture.
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Starting new churches is a great way to make moey, if you’re in to all that schemeing misleading people thing. Many make tons of money from thier parishinors. Of course, most are honest and spend it to help the people of thier church, but the ones who don’t are a disgrace to thier religion.
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Neofelis – you are correct about budhism, it doesn’t really deserve to be grouped in with those other religions
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Buddhism is awesome!
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If you guys fancy a laughe you should check out the creation museum web site, its fantastic. A quote from the (intelligent?) designer Patrick Marsh when asked about hominin fossils “there are no such things. Humans are basically as you see them today. These skeletons that they’ve found, whats the word?…..they could have been deformed, diseased or something. I’ve seen people like that running round the streets of New York.” Oh and apparently dinosaurs “became” dragons, which explains the whole mass extinction thing. Interesting choice of words that, seems to me that you could inter change “became” with “evolved into”, but maybe these processes only effect mythical creatures.
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Well, if you were to shoot my wife, hypothetically or otherwise.
I would hunt you down and you would suffer!
Not so much hypothetically, as you would hurt in real time….
MMMKay?
Best what I can say, don’t shoot my wife!
It would not be in your best interest.
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@Neofelis
Wait a minute, dragons? This guy seriously used dragons as a way to explain away the extinction of the dinosaurs? Do you think he can explain what happened to all the leprecauns and unicorns too?
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I don’t have flimsy morals, in fact have no morals at all. The reason I don’t go about shooting people’s wives is simply because I don’t want to, it would be a stupid and pointless thing to do, plus I would go to jail or get killed by the husband. I don’t need morals, I have a brain.
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yeh, and you know the old problem about Noah’s sons not being able to find wives, well apparently they shagged their sisters, which was ok back then because the bible hadnt been written yet so they had no moral compass. Makes ya wonder about all those poor bastards that drowned, how the hell were they supposed to know that they were doing anything wrong. The Lord works in mysterious ways.
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Herr Doktor just doesn’t have the bollocks to admit that while evolution can account for the flimsy morals of some individuals it is also responsible for a human mind capable of creating things like the Golden Rule. You know, where you should treat someone as you would have them treat you?
RAmen
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Wait the golden rule can’t be ethics, cause I thought all ethics had to come from religion. Sure its been adopted into the major religions, but apparently it came first.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethic_of_reciprocity#History
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“There is something feeble and little contemptible about a man who cannot face the perils of life without the help of comfortable myths. Almost inevitably some part of him is aware that they are myths and that he beleives them only because they are comforting. But he dares not face this thought! moreover, since he is aware, however dimly, that his opinions are not rational, he becomes furious when they are disputed.”
-Bertrand Russell,
Human Society in Ethics and Politics (1954)
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Jesus, this is fucked up. What sort of sick freak poposes that he shoot Bobby’s hypothetical wife, and then tries to pretend that he has better morals than any of us? This would be a laughable joke if it weren’t so pathetic and sad. This e-mail is clearly a cry for help, and sombody should really get this poor bastard back on his meds or into a psychiatrist’s office, because he is obviously deluded and/or off the deep end. A post like this makes you wonder how many non hypothetical people he’s killed, or if he’s some sort of manic depressive looking for an outlet. Simply put, this scares me. I hope this fool doesn’t live in Minnesota…
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@Werefox Alchemist
You should probably check out the rest of his numerous and massive posts on the “strawman” and “evolution is a fraud” threads Perhaps when you’ve got a bit of spare time. The quote comes out of one of those, but his posts are sick enough!
RAmen
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damnit bobby henderson, i doubt you’ll even read this but i dont know how else to reach you, will you reply to my emails already?!?!?!?!! id send something but you MOVED.
did i really mean that little to you? gosh…
just, reply, ok?
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But seriously,
Can i get the FSM to help change Santa back? He was green before Coke decided to make Sami Klaus their number one marketing guy. This has to be wrong. FSM mustn’t be down with folk lore becoming marketing indoctrination. I’d be happy to put him in a green pirate suit? Any takers? Also, i have flimsy moral standards, i ogle women, i don’t mind it when i abuse my own body and if it weren’t for pre-marital i’d be getting no sex at all. What possible reason could anyone have for using murder as an debate tool? What a weiner…….
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As today’s Sunday, do you think any of the various religious nutters might be praying for the total destruction of the FSM? Maybe by say a bolt of lightening or some such.
I do pray so, as it would surely indicate we are being taken seriously.
On the other hand, perhaps those that consider themselves to be more compasionate and caring, could ask for us to recieve a revelation or two,- I’ve always wanted one of those.
Alternatively, a clear sign might do the trick, like the earth standing still, or even better, an angel or somesuch appearing over the Vatican, or local Baptist Church.
That would be the easy way to whip all those bloody skeptiks into line.
In any case, no doubt God and his mythical gang will be getting plenty of praises – especially as apparently he loves all that sort of thing and can’t get enough to satisfy him.
But in return, nobody ever gets as much as nice ‘thankyou’.
Now that’s not asking for so very much is it?
RAmen.
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@Neofelis, thanks for the great apropos quote.
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I don’t think they are praying for the FSM’s destruction. More likely they are praying for our lost souls not to be condemned to an eternity in hell for not falling in goose-step line with their spiritual views. They are also fast at work indoctrinating as many children as they can to perpetuate their beliefs far into future. This is why this unbelievable myth has survived for 2000 years and practically controls the U.S. Get ‘em while they’re young.
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I fully agree that most likely the bulk of them are probably on their knees praying earnestly for our lost souls, and also of course for the souls of all those others who are not considered part of their particular outfit.
My post was partly to try and perhaps provoke some response from those such as Michael Martin, who presumably are continuing to read the posts.
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it’s funny how christianity is a religion based on though not kill when it is perfectly fine for them to pray for the death of the FSM (if they do). i guess the christian love only applies to christians. i guess to them, it’s ok to kill homosexuals and scientists because of the lovely words of the bible. yippy
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Interesting… Is anyone else aware of the meeting between William Jennings Bryan and Tolstoy? Bryan as I understand was a fundementalist and Tolstoy a non-mystical christian (no woo-woo). Bryan was trying to pin down Tolstoy on his non-resistance to evil and asked what Tolstoy would do if he saw his daughter being raped and Tolstoy refused to discuss it as a hypothetical question, though doubting whether it was ever possible that a woman would be raped in front of her father. He would think differently after the twentieth century!
As to flimsy moral standards; doesn’t that mean that they’re flexible? In other words not tied to simplistic absolutes that could cause more than they’re meant to prevent.
And re gathering sticks on the Sabbath I have to do housework on Sundays because my parents are too old; but then as a non-christian I will be subjected to eternal and infinite torture by their loving and merciful god anyway.
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Oh, I just noticed that the button is marked “submit”. Does that mean I convert to Islam? Whoops, here I go again!
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@No one of any interest
May I suggest you purchase an Hebrew to gather those sticks for you on Sunday, as it won’t be his Sabath. Possibly you may be able to get one quite cheaply.
Shouldn’t be any problem boring a hole in his ear after six years, as I’m sure he will grow to love you.
Ref:
Exodus 21:2-6. “2. If thou buy an Hebrew servant, six years he shall serve: and in
the seventh he shall go out free for nothing… 5. And if the servant shall plainly say, I love my master, my wife, and my children; I will not go out free: 6. Then his master shall bring him unto the judges; he shall also bring him to the door, or unto the door post; and his master shall bore his ear through with an aul; and he shall serve him for ever.”
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@Wench Nikkiee-
I looked at his other stuff. My thesis still stands: He’s a psycho. And he doesn’t get the premise of FSMism.
RAmen.
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I notice the Herr Doktor has not shown up to explain what he meant by that statement. Do you think there is a reason for that?
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@werefox alchemist
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this is just out of nowhere, but i love your comments that you post. they are very provacative. may you touched by his noodly appendage.
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the big doc brags about how he goes to yale, so he doesn’t live in minnesota. however, that doesn’t make him brilliant. there are lots of people who can go to an ivy league school because they did well in high school, that doesn’t mean they are set forth for the real world. however, ivy league does have smart people
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Ken Miller is one of the best examples. he’s also an example of a christian with common sense.
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I find posts like this truly disturbing. What these fundys seem to be saying is ‘If I wasn’t a fundy I would commit all sorts of violent crimes, and my religion is the only thing that keeps me from doing that.’
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I find posts like this truly disturbing. What these fundys seem to be saying is ‘If I wasn’t a fundy I would commit all sorts of violent crimes, and my religion is the only thing that keeps me from doing that.’
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What scares me is that I believe them. THEY would be worse without their religion, and they are truly terrible even with it. The prisons are filled with christ believers who were christ believers when they committed their crimes. Most child molesters seem to be devout christians. I don’t think very many people on this board would beat their children or throw them out in the street, or would find the most needy 13 year old girls in their congregation and fuck them, or cry for money to do ‘the lord’s work’ and buy luxury cars with it, but I saw christians do that. Christians need a book or rules that tells them not to rape children because otherwise they wouldn’t know that child-rape is wrong. They are moral cripples.
My last step in losing my christian faith was the realization that the christians I knew were significantly less moral people than the non-christians. Christians need to get a fucking clue and realize that nobody looks to them as examples of morality. In fact, decent people would find it impossible to be as indecent as a christian. We’re naturally better than them.
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There is a video on YouTube with Richard Dawkins. He states something that is perfectly relevant to this discussion. One should not have any respect for people who do do bad things because God will send him to Hell. The people who should be respected are those that choose to do good/nice things for other people without being coerced by a selfish fear of retribution.
Sorry if this has been mentioned further up, but I do not have the time to read all comments today.
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-Fr. Corpus Callosum,If you were christian then you should know that it is an extreamly supressive(?) religion.When people are repeatedly forbidden(in a way not unlike brain washing)to express their thoughts and feelings,for fear of sinning and going to hell,it will eventually come out in other ways.The bible tells you that even thinking nasty thoughts is enough to damn you,so what do you do? You squash it down in a little dark corner of your soul till it can be contained no more and takes on a sick and demented life of it’s own;ie murders,child molesters,wife beaters,pollytitheads,ect,ect……
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My (hypothetical) wife would be going to our flismy moraly weak heaven complete with stripper factory and beer volcano.
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“The bible tells you that even thinking nasty thoughts is enough to damn you,so what do you do? You squash it down in a little dark corner of your soul till it can be contained no more and takes on a sick and demented life of it’s own;ie murders,child molesters,wife beaters,pollytitheads,ect,ect……”
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i never thought of it quite like that, but you are certainly right. it’s the same sort of correlation at work here as between homophobia and repressed homosexuality. those who speak out loudest against “sin” are the ones who are desperately ashamed of their own baser urges.
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@Fr. Corpus Callosum
“I find posts like this truly disturbing. What these fundys seem to be saying is ‘If I wasn’t a fundy I would commit all sorts of violent crimes, and my religion is the only thing that keeps me from doing that.’”
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I so agree with you there. This admission been made by so many of them on this board.
This is why they find it so hard aknowledge that non- believers can have morals without jeebus worship, because they don’t!
RAmen
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Homo narrans,if your still there,I’ve put in another chapter to my story on the lame thread if your interested.
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Wait, like, right now? I just read that, let me check….
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no,sorry,I think you’ve already read it Anna.
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If you were to shoot my wife…… I would grant you 72 VIRGINS!, I would also let you butt fuck my most prized camal!
For my wife(s) are mearly vessels to use to create more male camal fucking, self exploding beings. If you were to shoot my wife(s) I would forever hold you close to my heart! And reserve a place for you in heaven!
I would prefer you slit their fucking throats, but shooting will be acceptable to me!
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@jesus christ-
Yeah, that’s me. I actually do that on purpose, the theory being that there’s so much provocative Republican fundy shit out there that it’s time the rest of us get to be ridiculously offensive as well. I’m actually a relatively pleasant person in real life, but for some reason the internet provides irresistable temptation to be an ass.
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The question of morality is a tough one, especially for the fundamentalists who can’t seem to think outside of a book or on their own two feet. What if your wife was an evil super-villian about to kill everyone in the greater Green Bay area? And what if the only way to stop her was to shoot her in the hand so she couldn’t press the button on her doomsday device? In such an instance a flimsy or flexible moral standard would allow for in the situation, it would be right to shoot your wife for the greater good.
The problem I struggle with is the common fundamentalists points of pro-life (protect that which is not alive), pro-capital punishment (eye for eye justice), and pro-invasion of oil rich countries (kill the pagans and let God sort them out). Its enough to make a geologist wish for nothing less than a volcano which spills the great mineral beerite…
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Hey, Fellow Noodle Worshippers- was the original question posed as a discussion point for that guilty bastard, OJ’s, wretchedly-titled new book? Maybe?
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Hey who said I never meant harm. We japanese were fully behind hirohito slaughtering them infidels. read my history.
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don’t you mean”we japanese buddshits”.
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i thought Japan was originally Taoist, not Buddhist? i may be wrong. either way, Japan is the most secular nation in the world today, and has been for quite a long time. i think their notions of imperialism died after WWII, however, much like Germany.
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lots of dopes in japan as in oz. you still ain’t read the history
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@Homo Narrans-
Actually, Japan was Shintoist until WWII. Taoism’s China.
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lots of dopes means lots of religions means no FSM. Poor benighteds.
IN PASTA WE TRUST
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Richard Dawkins is my God!
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@Cat
Oh the ironies, worshipping a man who does not believe in gods.
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I like irony:) i think He would too:)
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i don’t think Dawkins would appreciate being called a God…somehow, i doubt that would sit well with him at all. he could be the Patron Saint of Rationality, though.
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–chapter 5 is done.
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Dawkins says somewhere (i can’t find the exact quote)in “A Devil’s Chaplain” that the chinese said they would build a temple for him when he dies, he was almost tempted just for the irony.
@Cat, meow
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//Actually, Japan was Shintoist until WWII.
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It’s still Shinto. And Buddhist. They coexist quite cozily, since neither of them insists on an exclusive relationship.
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OMG WTF…WTF IS THIS F*CKING SH*T? THIS IS F*CKING RETARDED, GO F*CK A BLOODLY SHARK YOU MOTHER F*CKING PSYCO N*GGA’S, GO F*CK YOURSEVES…YOU CUM BLOWING DRY CUNT LICKING PIRATE F*CKING, TOFU FETUS ANAL RAPING WHORES….
Enough said?
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Here in our glorious United Kingdom ( That’s England to Americans ).
Our beloved ( Christian ) leader Mr. Tony Blair, is hell bent on acquiring a new arsenal of Weapons Of Mass Destruction for the purpose of incinerating civilians.
I call on His Holiness the F.S.M. to grasp Mr Tony around his neck with His Noodly Appendages and drown the b*stard in the Holy Beer Volcanoes…….errr….hold on,
that might sour the Holy Beer…………back to the drawing board.
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Dear Yesh, What an eloquent contribution to the debate, arrrr.
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wow…when this site has friends like Yesh, who needs enemies?
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btw, in full agreement with you there, Tagliatellius. our country should adopt america’s 8-year maximum for political leadership.
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@Yesh…
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You are not very good at this are you? You left FAGGOT. Get it right!
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You left out the word FAGGOT is what I meant.
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@Yesh – erm. The caps lock is on the left side of your keyboard. I suspect it was accidentally turned on when you wrote your diatribe.
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I like the bit about being tofu fetus anal raping whores. I have no idea what it means but it sounds good.
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I very much doubt it is possible for me to fuck a shark. I can’t swim that well.
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Cum blowing dry cunt licking…..aww. now you’re just getting silly!
Oh little Petey, you at bible college as well? For shame on you with your nasty mouth. Do you speak to your mother like that? What would your elders and betters think of you if they could hear you now?
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RAmen my child
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Dear Tagliatellius, I fully agree with your proposal to punish Prime Minister Blair. May I also recomend that whatever punishment he receives may also be applied to President George W. Bush of the USA.
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@Sir William
You are a more generous man than I. Personally I would like to see President Dubbya go out in a glorious blaze of irony.
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If you were to shoot my wife, my mother-in-law would nag you to death.
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@Yesh, “Enough said?”
Oh no! Please go on! There is never enough shark fucking and tofu fetus anal raping. Have you tried oar anal raping? It is all the rage, and that is rage with a capital R. Once you go to prison, and I am sure you will get there eventually, you’ll learn all about anal raping. Bottoms up!
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One Oared Marc – we shouldn’t excite him. It must have taken his/her mummy and daddy hours to get him settled tonight. If s/he has an accident again they’ll blame us (hahaha)
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OOps – assumed the numpty was male.
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mwahahaha…..@ “one oared marc” and the “bottoms up!” line….
in response to the spaghetti-questioning lilly-livered flimsical doctor…..
my (hypothetical) wife would not be shot. the pasta-based deity that she (obviously, for i will marry no other than an eye-patched beauty, ramen) worships will send down his noodlyness in great storms of sauce, and smite the weapon from your hands…..for the pastafarians shall rise up against the land-lubbers, and send them all to the beer volcano, so that they may repent in their noodly sins in the eternal stripper-factory that is the afterlife.
hypocrisy? moi? i’ll shoot your wife to the jiggalo-factory in the sky, for being a non-believer.
obviously doctor doom here isn’t aware that his noodlyness doesn’t just weep his saucey tears for the salvation of mankind, he also gave his very starch so that we may live.
ramen.
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To the correspondants above :
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Buddhism is theistic – the followers of the religion do not question their “God” because they feel that human language is inadequate to describe God and so simply do not bother to talk via negativa (saying what God is not e.g. God is not finite). This to me seems quite ignorant yet for whoever made up this ideology, well done, you’ve made a good one there [sarcasm]. Another interesting point is that they also believe in a theory similar to “The One” theory that is used in The Matrix when picking their next Dalli Lama i.e. (as far as i can remember) a “learned” child is picked to choose the next Lama. This child is supposedly learned because it has been deep in spiritual thinking since it was young.
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Buddhists have had wars – the 19th century (1800s) Japanese imperialist warlords were Buddhists. Have a read or browse of Brian Victoria’s book “Zen at War”.
Also look at this link:
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http://jmm.aaa.net.au/articles/15293.htm
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Some of these cases may be extremists, however, I still feel they can prove that Buddhists aren’t so peaceful after all.
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Final thought on Buddhism. There appears to be a common misconception, seeming to be mainly among Americans (I may be mistaken, please correct me if I have misjudged this trend) that Buddha (generally Sidhatha Gautama) is the Buddhist God. There have actually been 28 Buddhas and they have been seen as enlightened ones.
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If you want to question religious morality a good book to look at is “The God Delusion” by Richard Dawkins.
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This website supports the noodly pushing down theory (alternative to gravity theory). – http://www.hipponoodles.com
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Finally, some of my information may need verifying and might need adapting, however, it appears to be generally solid. If anybody wants to drop me a line my Yahoo! id is shinobi2689
RAmen
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My question is, would I have to pay you to do it?
(FSM forgive me)
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-brad,’they feel that human language is inadequate to describe God and so simply do not bother to talk…’ Sounds like a good excuse for not returning his calls to me. I think I’ll try that on my sister.
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brad:
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haha.
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If you live by the rules of Stewie,then you know that this entire thread is pointless.-”The life of the wife is ended by the knife.”
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hi michael martin, i need to borrow your gun, how can I contact you?
eat more pasta, it’s good for your heart.
pastamania
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Anyone else noticed there is a hell of a lot of vitriole coming this way, but all the Pastafarians do is correct the spelling and laugh it off, while a mere, ‘i’m not too sure about your bible thing’ leads to the wanton rape of tofu foetuses by shark-fucking whores. Peace be with you also, my child.
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Argh.., I be asked by a landlubber picaroon as to the founding of FSM. Shiver me timbers, mates! What saith ye? 2005?
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I think 2005 was the time FSM openly came out of the closet (see Open Letter) so to speak, but I think the religion has actually been around since…since..well I’m not really sure, but I believe the dinosaurs were still around or maybe just after the beginning of mammal radiation?
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mike martin was deprived of the early teachings of the prophet “chef boyardee” in his childhood, hence the bitterness of his soul
let us pray
sauce and parmesan upon HIM
RAmen
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@Wench Nikkiee
mammal radiation saith ye?
Where ye from?
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Australia
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@ Wench Nikkiee Australia.
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See I could tell right away you weren’t from New Jersey,
No, Jersey accent. Thank FSM !
RAmen
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If you were to shoot my wife I’d be very upset, because it would deny me the chance to make money from a book called, I dunno, how about: “If I did it,” after killing her myself.
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Ah Christian Morallity, such a wonerful idea. I must do the right thing otherwise God will punish me. But if the leader of my particular variety of Christianity, anybody got any idea how many versions there are now?), asks me to I can kill anyone and everyone that doesn’t agree with me.
I think I’ll stick to my own personal morallity that says do the right thing because it’s the right thing to do, not because you’re scared of being punished.
We should remember that the basis of Christian morallity is the Ten Commandments, which were supposedly written by Moses, a murderer and genocide. This oh so believable person is, as I remember, responsible for their rediculous creation story which was cobbled together from numerous other older polythiastic myths.
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Good point Jon about the leaders Jon. Perfect examples of this can be found in the bible as you say with Moses. Other examples can be seen in the Crusades and also if you look at the conflict between Protestants and Catholics, exemplified in Ireland. More contemporary examples of this could be Strauss and his influence on the New Right and more importantly the Christian fundamentalists in America e.g. Pastor Ted Haggard. Another example is Sayed Kobt and his influence on Islamic extremism and Ayman Al Zawahiri.
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http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=-5042711310749426183&q=fundamentalism.
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chapter 5 ??
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that video link is worrying stuff, brad. the notion that individualism is evil and must be kept in check…when the myth of religion (or militant nationalism) spreads, power falls into the hands of the very people who should not have it.
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power always spreads to those who shouldn’t have it – that’s the human condition. sociopaths are primed to make it to the top while those of us who want to meditate wank
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now I get it. chapter 5 is penne’s story. spare me, I thort it was a pirate coipy of dawkins. arrr
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Yet the fundis always site our supposed individualistic “survival of the fittest” attitude as the basis of the worlds lack of morality.
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you are very right about Moses, hell, that guy nearly killed his own son, good thing that if it happened now his son would call 999 and Moses would be in a looney asylum…
I think these fundimentalists should be exposed in a film where they are terrorists, instead of the fundi muslims as it so often is now, then mabye people could compare these sects and expose them for what they really are, idiots led by fear mongerors…
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If you want nasty evil people in the bible then you need look no further than the founder of it all, Abraham. No heres a man who hears voices that tell him to take his son to the top of a mountain, tie him to an alter stone and scarifice him, then at the last minute he spots a goat, changes his mind and kills the goat.
If Abraham was alive today he would be locked up in a mental institute for life. Probably with the fundis screaming for him to be executed as well.
Another example of the bibles idea of a good man is Lott, the last good man in Sodom and Gahmorrah. This wonderful and good man who was the only person to be allowed to take his family out before it was destroyed got both of his daughters pregnant and then whined and claimed that he had been tricked and forced into it. Sounds just like the sort of things you hear from modern peadophiles.
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Freud would have a field day. In fact he actually did. He found that religious people had a very similar traits to his patients that he’d classified as insane. Says a lot really.
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Some times a wack-job is just a wack-job.
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@brad, Penne, and all the other pastafarian lads and wenches.
Words of wisdom, freinds.
let us continue on towards the great volcano of malted refreshments, and show the world just how nuts it really is.
FSM be with us!
RAmen
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While we’re on evil people in the bible, thebricktestament.com illustrates it all nicely. My personal favourite is the Old Testament > The Law.
Neofelis – Meow. Meow. Meow meow meow. Meow.
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@Cat
When you speak catish, please translate for the non-linguists on board. Of course I know what you said; what an elegant and simple solution to finding a unified theory of physics. Brilliant!!
“Humanity may actually redeem itself when they stop waiting for a higher power to do it for them.” -me
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@ Mista Gnocchi
That would be so cool!
But I won’t hold my breath waiting…..
Ramen
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michael martin and yesh (thomas according to his infantile website http://www.e-thug.net) are cowards.
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what is it with people (sheeple) like them? they post an incidiary remark and run. do they believe they have made an intelligent or insightful observation or cutting remark that will actually influence the regulars of this site?
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they rarely, if ever, defend themselves or follow up with responses to the replies to their posts. although, admittedly they do provide entertainment and start some rather interesting conversation…
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immature brain-washed cowards.
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arrrrr
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* Starts holding breath *
Ok humanity, redeem yourself!
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How would does you shooting my wife have anything to do with my moral standards? In fact where is my wife, and how come I have not met her? If you tell me I could be getting laid regularly and I am not, then I will be very sad. Oh wait, you said “wife”. I forgot: girlfriend=sex, wife=no sex. Can’t argue with math, and as you can see by the “=” symbols in my previous sentence, I was using math.
By the way, your logic is about as sound as your religious beliefs, assuming that you follow any religion other than the FSM gospel.
RAmen
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My previous post had an error in the first sentence. it should read “How does you shooting my wife…”. I’m anal.
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I think we’re all missing the point here. We’ve been hypothesizing so much here, how do we know the wife is still alive? Was a ransom note even delivered?
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I think I’ll wait until the smoke clears and see what the kidnappers’ demands are. He may be a pirate, and I’m down with that if that’s the case. Pirates are methodical killers. They don’t flip out like ninjas and start slicing away. If a pirate kills you, he has good reason.
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Remember, if a pirate is involved, look the other way. We need more of them to decrease the temperature of the planet and get those tree-huggers off our asses.
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RAmen
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Now why did ya ‘ave ta drag my arse inta this?
I’m jest trin’ ta save da reindeer’s an’ shit?
An’ da bunnie wabbits!
And da toads!
Ramen
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@Tree ass hugger
Do trees have asses? Kinky no?
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Proof once again that Christians are violent beings.
Glad I’m a Pastafarian…
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Ah, so I am not the only Gnocci out there anymore. Truly, a pasta with potatoes is something to universaly desire. I actually got to make some by hand during a trip to Italy (land of pasta and pizza, trust me, it holds up to and surpasses the hype)
@Mista Gnocchi
mind if I use that quote on occasion? Truly, you have been touched by His Noodley Appendage.
RAmen
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@Cat.
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Re: thebricktestament.com
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LMAO!!!! This is SOOOOOOOOO hilarious! And, well….. I just want to know who has this much innovative time on their hands and so much angst against the xtians to create this incredibly creative site.
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Must send this to me daughters right away. Wenches, both of ‘em.
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@Noodle Noggin
“so much angst against the xtians”
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More like angst against their push to indoctrinate their beliefs into all schoolchildren and control the political systems at the same time.
RAmen
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Gnocci. Mmmmmmmmmm. Haven’t had any for ages. Must get some and make a nice rich tomato sauce to go with them. Heaven.
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hello xander is sexy
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Bit of an ego thing there Xander.
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huh.
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i wasn’t aware that people used venganza.org to canvass for cybersex.
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No me neither. Maybe someones confused as to what’s going on here.
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probably a cathlic preist
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thinks were teenagers
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That happens :)
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@Mista Gnocchi,
I think that you should learn Cattish. Every good pirate ship has a ship’s cat. But obviously you had your Cattish-English dictionary to hand, because that’s exactly what I said!
@Noodle Noggin,
I can’t decide on my favourite story, it could be “When to stone your whole family”. Christians are so moral.
@ Penne,
Maybe there are no young Catholics left?
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sure there are,they’re just all in therapy.
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BTW my post was at Jon E
“Maybe someones confused as to what’s going on here.”
but no doubt relevent to Penne’s perceptions as well.
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Therapy run by Catholic preists with the bible as a text book. Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo.
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Did you ever watch the South Park show called ‘Red Hot Catholic Love’? …soooooo funny!!!!
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@Gnocchi Man
Trully the Brotherhood of the Potato Pastas is growing, and verily we shall spread His word to all the corners of the globe.
Yes my quote is free to all. Here it is again for all you lazies who haven’t read the previous posts:
“Humanity my actually redeem itself when they stop waiting for a higher power to do it for them.” -me
@Cat
I have lived with felines for years and now have a novices understanding of catish. And I’m still amazed that you felinestines are able to do theoretical phycis without an opposable thumb.
Now to be relevant to the thread for the first time: as a previous poster said, flexible morals does not imply no morals. I believe non-believers can be more moral then believers. We do whats right, not because of the promise of some celestial paradise or from fear of eternal damnation, but because we care about our fellow humans (and cats and various other creatures). This is true morality. Morality out of fear or in hopes of rewards is childish. So we pastafarians may condone a little pre-marital sex (with protection) and occasional trips to alternate states of reality, but at least we don’t preach “Thou shall not kill” while supporting the death penalty and war.
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@Mista Gnocchi
“Humanity m[a]y actually redeem itself when they stop waiting for a higher power to do it for them”
-Wise words, but unless people do things nothing will change. I was thinking, and I contacted Bobby on this, but he ain’t got back to me yet, that FSMism could hold its first general meeting. I think your quote would provide an intersting debate. In my opinion FSM should consider taking a proactive role in our future. FSM could actually make a difference where it counts, but it would mean actions, not words, however wise. We could have a forum at the general meeting to discuss FSM’s future role in the world on such issues as obviously the education of children, but also on larger topics, such as global warming, etc and draw up a plan of action.
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Thanks for reading
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RAmen
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@Fred
Have you been to the website of Richard Dawkins, author of The God Delusion? A little more consistant serious disscussion requarding these issues is held there. Also FSM has its own moderated disscussion site:
FSM Disscussion
http://www.venganza.org/forum/index.php
RAmen
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@Wench Nikkie
Ah righty. Thanks! I never knew! I’ll pop something up there. I did check out Richard Dawkins, watched one or two of his interviews but I wasn’t a fan of what I saw, I’m sorry to say! But I should look more closely into his works.
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Also here is the Dawkins site link if you don’t already have it.
http://richarddawkins.net/home
The Church (here) is more the fun and worship frontline.
RAmen
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Fred
Dawkins site is good for disscussion on most recent articles which are posted there everyday (usually a couple), it seems. I was just over there reading before, about ID/ creationism in Turkey!
Reguarding Dawkins himself, he does appear to put some people off.
Site is definately worth a visit though.
Cheers
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chapter 8 is done;>
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@Penne
sorry, I must have missed an earlier thread. think you could enlighten me as to the meaning of the ‘chapters’? thanks,
RAmen
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go to the ” science without religion is lame’ thread and scroll up till you get to’OK,here’s my story”-hope you like it
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thanks again
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WHOAH! THAT IS AMAZING!
You should get Bobby H. to add it to the archives!
A pirate shanty might fit in well, if you haven’t done that already.
RAmen, RAmen, RAmen!
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I’ve got plans for pirates, but not in this story…..
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Peace be with you, brothers of the pasta. I was referenced to this wonderful, life-saving site by a good friend, nad it is the best thing to happen to me in ages. You all seem like such a cheery lot…
.
Anyway. What’s with this Guy? He needs someone to sit him down and nicely explain that his religion prohibits him from shooting anyone’s wife. Poor dear… obviously has been off his meds for quite some time, from what I can tell.
.
@Cat- Meow. Meow meow meeeew meow meow. Hiss! Rowr meow mew purr.
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I just want to say that i think you are crazy. Who would waste their time and money trying to get this theory into schools around the country. Although I do believe that everyone should make up their own mind about what really happened, your version is obviously not true, as you well know. All I’m saying is that you should really try to be more productive doing something worthwhile versus something that will never become a part to school curriculum.
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You’re right, I’ll drop the whole ID thing right now.
RAmen
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@_____-
Do you not understand the concept of sarcasm and/or satire, my son? If you are refferring to the Open Letter, which I suspect you are, then how on earth could you have missed the glaring satire there? The point of said letter, you poor pathetic sheep, is not so much to instill Pastafarianism into schools as it is to point out the glaring idiocy of attempting to get ID into a school curriculum. The reasoning behind NOT putting ID into schools is that, simply, it is NOT SCIENCE. Teaching children to be unscientific in science class is like teaching them to burn books in english or how to cook crystal meth in home ec. It is ridiculous, and therefore your point, I’m afraid, is moot. From a philisofical standpoint, Pastafarianism would make far more sense in a school environment than ID ever would, unless, FSM forbid, the separation of church and state laws are ever repealed.
RAmen.
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i have to agree. it was foolish to attempt getting ID into the science curriculum.
.
[serious]
erm…look up the meaning of SATIRE?
[/serious]
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Satire:
A literary work in which human vice or folly is attacked through irony, derision, or wit.
Irony, sarcasm, or caustic wit used to attack or expose folly, vice, or stupidity.
Just in case you have as much trouble using a dictionary as you do your brain.
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MIOW!!! HISSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS! *retract claws* i’m such a bitch!
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“Although I do believe that everyone should make up their own mind about what really happened, your version is obviously not true…” *sigh*…I wish these people would make up their minds.
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I had a dream in which I was eating pasta but when I bit into the meatball there was something hard inside. I looked and it was a human tooth. The meatball-teeth assembles into a small mouth and ate all my pasta, but they left the parmesian sprinkles in the bowl.
Can someone interpret this for me? I think its a sign, but i dont get it.
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btw Who are the unlucky people who have to be the strippers? just wondered. And are their male strippers? *shudder*. EW. And if not its sexist. dam…err i mean ‘non touched by noodles’ either way.
What if ur also beer intolerant? will their be sparkling grapejuice volcanos?
And then theirs the grain intolerant people.
Oh well im sure its all part of His plan.
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whats wrong here
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Had to change my email?
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Having a little identity crisis are we? I wonder why? ….hahaha..
RAmen Swabbies
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@_____ Who the heck calls themselves _____???? Thats just wrong ! That is Geez—————
.
@13 Who the heck calls themselves 13???? Thats just wrong! Too Also!
.
But I think you may just be young, and do not fully understand the workings of the world? So I would like to help you, I would!
Firstly, are beer and are strippers are the finest beer and strippers known! Why would we want anything less?
Secondly, Our strippers love being strippers! Elst they wouldn’t be! See what a simple deal we got here? It’s the bestest! It is!
Now… what would you like to know about grapes? ‘Cause friend I know Grapes!
And I’m a friendly type of guy! So ask ye away….
.
@Wench Nikkiee, I don’t know what happened? My posts quit showing up?
I changed my email addy, and now they show up?
Must be some bad mamba jamba or something?
Ramen
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13,
.
Your dream is quite straight forward. The Meatball represents the Earth. As you hungrily consumed the meatball, you encountered an unpallitable portion, the “tooth”. Clearly the tooth is symbolic of the consequences of our unbridled rape of the planet. The fact that it was a human tooth is also significant. The tooth demonstrates that we are the root cause of our own misfortunes.
.
The metamorphosis of the meatball into a mouth which then consumes you clearly shows that if we continue to thoughtlessly squander the resources of our mother earth (figuratively speaking), she will turn on us and destroy us.
.
Finally, your dream ends with hope. The remaining parmesan in the bowl are the seeds of humanity which may rebuild, hopefully learning from our mistakes.
.
Surely the Noodly One has blessed you with a powerful vision which we should all take to heart.
.
OEJ, Ship’s Navigator
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@13
Your dream may mean:
1.) You will be betrayed by something you like
2.) Someone will eat your pasta
3.) The FSM has spoken to you, and warned you of danger
that’s all I can make of it, cause I’m no dream-interpreter
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Well said OEJ
RAmen
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RAmen Pastafarian Theologian OEJ
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Jewcy’s Big Question: Why Are Atheists So Angry?
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/sam-harris/jewcys-big-question-why_b_35180.html
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The person that wrote this, in your link. Is just an angry person. If he believed in a God, he’d be pissed at his God, and everybody else just the same. Some people are like that.
Maybe some Holy Raviolis would fix him up!
.
/
As an atheist, I am angry that we live in a society in which the plain truth cannot be spoken without offending 90% of the population. The plain truth is this: There is no good reason to believe in a personal God; there is no good reason to believe that the Bible, the Koran, or any other book was dictated by an omniscient being; we do not, in any important sense, get our morality from religion; the Bible and the Koran are not, even remotely, the best sources of guidance we have for living in the 21st century; and the belief in God and in the divine provenance of scripture is getting a lot of people killed unnecessarily./
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-13-I belive your dream may mean that you are lonely, you need to get a pet with which you can share your love of pasta.(perhaps a meatball shaped one) RAmen.
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Many well loved pets end up meatball shaped in the end anyway Penne. Especially if fed on pasta.
RAmen
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LONELY?
NEED SALVATION?
You’l NEVER be alone again with the Jesus Christ inflateable
doll!. He WANTS to suffer for YOUR sins!. BE the Devil on christ’s back!. Featuring realistic vibrating lamb of God!!. Follow this link http://www.answersingenesis.org/
to buy your PERSONAL saviour today!
made from durable consecrated ripstop rubber
crucifix and lubricant sold seperately
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neofelis I think you’re full of it, I checked your link and didn’t find what you’re tallking about, instead I found B.S.
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hahahaha
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@Parmesan the Greated: everything on answeringenesis.org is bullshit.
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Ken Hamm sounds like such a nice man. You couldn’t imagine someone who looks like that being nasty could you? Really, I’m sure he’s a very nice man, well that is until you start pointing out to him what a lying sack of **** he actually is.
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Morals existed long before christianity, and will exist long after christianity fizzles out
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@Pureé Reason
If only more people had them…
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Hello friends,
/
I’m impressed. You noodle heads are extremely creative, intelligent, and passionate.
/
I was reading through the post and I couldn’t help but notice a few trends: misinterpretation and consequent misapplication of Scripture, an ignorance to the logical conclusions of atheism, and a very romantic and hypocritically audacious imposition, that is, existential (individual) morality being treated as if it were an absolute. The later of my observations is the primary reason for my post.
/
I would like to think that my theology accurately represents Christianity. However, much of my understanding, many of my ideas, and most of me would be considered extremely unorthodox by the majority in mainstream Christianity.
/
Brother Bartholomew is correct when he writes, “ID… is NOT SCIENCE.” However, this is only true because the present-day definition of science excludes any non-natural explanations. Before you start typing a rebuttal keep this in mind: Both Alfred North Whitehead (Harvard) and J. Robert Oppenheimer (Princeton), neither of whom to my knowledge were Christian or anything similar, have stressed that modern science was born out of the Christian worldview. That is, because the early scientist believed that a reasonable God created the world, they had, as Whitehead explains, an “inexpugnable belief that every detailed occurrence can be correlated with its antecedents in a perfectly definite manner, exemplifying general principles.” He continues, “Without this belief the incredible labors of scientists would be without hope.”
/
I noticed a myriad of comments about God and hell above. Let me simply say this: God is love. God is just. Hell is extremely individually relative.
/
“There is something feeble and little contemptible about a man who cannot face the perils of life without the help of comfortable myths. Almost inevitably some part of him is aware that they are myths and that he believes them only because they are comforting. But he dares not face this thought! Moreover, since he is aware, however dimly, that his opinions are not rational, he becomes furious when they are disputed.â€
-Bertrand Russell,
Human Society in Ethics and Politics (1954)
/
I agree with Bertrand here. However, I believe the atheist is the man who refuses to admit he lives irrationally. The atheist lives in complete contradiction to the logical presuppositions of his worldview. This is the romantic and hypocritically audacious imposition I referred to above. I will illustrate my point with a question:
/
Swabbies Bucket wrote, “We do not, in any important sense, get our morality from religion….”
/
Where does morality come from?
/
I could summarize all the responses I will receive ahead of time, but it’s more fun and interesting when it is personal.
Peace
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In my reply to the Bertrand Russel quote I meant to write, “The atheist lives in complete contradiction to the logical conclusions of his worldview.” I’m not sure how I made that mistake.
/
peace
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@nic:
First, it is wonderful to have a soft-spoken Christian visit our site, as most do not accurately display the effects of humanized evolution (just look through the hate-mails). feel free to post again anytime, even if we believe nothing of your views.
Second, we DO completely disagree with your beliefs. an athiest is simply someone who does not have a religion, someone who chooses to see things as they are, not creating a calming illusion. as to God being love, if he is then whay did he create hell? after all, you say he created everything. morality comes from the human itself, not their beliefs.
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Harris on morals:
“Who decides what’s good in the Good Book? Answer: We do!”
I once enforced a few of the Judeo-Christian God’s morals found in Leviticus and was convicted of murder.
I got off because one of the FSM’s Holy Appendages erased the whole file.
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The logical conclusions of our worldview are simple:
There is no God(s)/Godess(es)
There can be no God(s)/Godess(es)
most all religions believe that theirs is the only correct way. ask a Hindi, and they will say that there are thousands of gods. ask a Christian, and they will say that there is only one. many of us athiests belive that the world simply what it is: cosmically, not even slightly important. it takes more strength to face true reality than it does to create your own.
How do we live in contradiction of these terms?
thank you, RAmen, and
/
peace.
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Gnocci Man,
Thanks for the invitation.
/
So morality comes from within each individual human? That would make morality individually relative, right? That is, there is no absolute moral standard, right? (If it’s not obvious, I’m setting you up.)
/
Warning!!! I am considered by some to be a rather verbose individual. I hope you will take the time to read what follows. If you are unwilling please at least read the last few paragraphs, beginning with the sentence: “GOD DOES NOT SEND ANYONE TO HELL!†I think you will miss some very key and possibly surprising ideas if you skip down, but please at least read that section.
/
The truth about God, Hell, and Humanity:
/
The Bible states very clearly that everyone will spend eternity somewhere. Matthew 25:31-46 is a good example. However, when reading this passage it should be kept in mind that “good works†are a consequence of salvation and not the means by which a person can be saved (Ephesians 2:8-9/James 2:17-18/Matthew 24:46). Salvation comes through faith alone. Placing their trust in Jesus Christ’s vicarious death on the cross saves a person. A person must admit that they are a sinner, and in need of salvation. A person must believe that God loves them so much that He died in their place and took their punishment for sin. After a person places faith in Christ they enter into relationship with the Triune God and they can begin to uncover life.
/
Both heaven and hell are eternal. – They will last forever.
Matthew 25:46 “And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.†(NKJV)
/
Heaven (the kingdom) was prepared for Gnocci Man and the rest of humanity. God never intended for Humans to go to hell. Matthew 25:34, “Then the King will say to those on His right hand, ‘Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.†(NKJV)
/
Hell was prepared for the devil and his angels. Matthew 25:41 “Then He will also say to those on the left hand, ‘Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels.†(NKJV) The everlasting fire is not a literal fire; it is symbolic for eternal death, or more specifically, eternal separation from God. Fire would be horrible, but separation and solitude will be worse.
/
God created us to be in fellowship with Him.
Ephesians 1:5, “His unchanging plan has always been to adopt us into His own family by bringing us to Himself through Jesus Christ And this gave Him great pleasure.†(NLT)
/
Our sins separate us from God.
Isaiah 59:2, “But your iniquities have separated you from your God. And your sins have hidden His face from you….†(NKJV)
/
God is holy and cannot tolerate the presence of sin.
Leviticus 10:1-3, “Then Nadab and Abihu, the sons of Aaron, each took his censer and put fire in it, put incense on it, and offered profane fire before the LORD, which He had not commanded them. So fire went out from the LORD and devoured them, and they died before the LORD. And Moses said to Aaron, “This is what the LORD spoke, saying: ‘By those who come near Me I must be regarded as holy….†(NKJV)
God didn’t want to break out against those guys. But He had to, as Millard J. Erickson put it, “God is, as it were, allergic to sin and evil.â€
/
God practices perfect justice.
Deuteronomy 32:4, “The Rock, His work is perfect, for all His ways are justice. A God of faithfulness and without iniquity, just and upright is He.†(ESV)
Imagine someone commits a crime. Imagine they get caught red-handed and then brought before the judge. If the judge is a good judge will he let the criminal go unpunished? No, if the judge is a good judge, he will punish the criminal for his crime. God is the perfect judge.
/
The Penalty must be paid.
Look what the Bible says about the punishment for sin:
Romans 6:23a, “For the wages of sin is death ….†(NKJV)
Hell is death. Our sin puts us on death row. We are facing the ultimate death penalty. Only death can pay the death penalty. Thankfully, the penalty has been paid.
Romans 6:23b, “For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.†(NKJV)
/
I’m a momma’s boy. My mom loves me. My siblings say I’m her favorite. I don’t know about that, but here’s what I do know: If my mom could she would go before God and say, “God, I understand that Nic has a death penalty to pay, and I’m here to pay it. Take my life in place of his. God’s reply might be something like this, “Rhonda that is admirable, but you can’t pay Nic’s death penalty because you have your own to pay.â€
/
Jesus was sinless and is thus the only acceptable substitute for the sins of an individual. Jesus had no death penalty to pay and because of His great love He paid ours.
1Peter 3:18, “For Christ also suffered once for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive by the Spirit.†(NKJV)
/
God is holy so he must judge sin; however, he is also merciful and in order to maintain both His perfect justice and mercy, He died in our place. He suffered a horrible death. He took our punishment. He did it because He is a loving God.
GOD DOES NOT SEND ANYONE TO HELL!
/
1Timothy 2:3b-6a, “…God our Savior…desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus, who gave Himself a ransom for all….†(NKJV)
I love my wife. I hope that she never leaves me, but I don’t want to chain her up in our home so that she can’t leave. I want her to love me with an authentic love, and be with me because she desires to do so. It’s the same with God. God is a gentleman. He did not want robots that were forced to love Him so He created men with freewill.
/
Think about this: It grieves God for His creations to perish. However, He was willing to endure that kind of heartache just to enjoy authentic fellowship with the ones who would allow Him to save them. Imagine a man who knows that in order for him to experience the joys of having children his wife will have to endure horrible pain and they will have to lose many children. Imagine that somehow he knew those children that would be lost, and I mean really knew them intimately. Know this: God desires all men to be saved, and He was willing to endure the heartache of losing some for the joys of having the others.
/
God doesn’t want anyone to perish. People choose to go to hell, because they choose to remain separated from God. The person who experiences hell has rejected God’s way to escape their punishment. Sin is a person going through life saying, “Go away God.†Hell is God finally granting their wish. As C.S. Lewis has put it, “The doors of hell are locked on the inside.â€
/
peace
/
If you are interested in the concept of an individually relative nature of hell, I wil post on that concept.
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-nic, Of course many (not all) of the early scientist were Christian, most people were back then,but back then,as science was a fairly new concept, religious leaders didn’t try to deny it and demonize it so much-at first. Humans have always been courious about the world around them,it’s the reson they have survived this long. Our ancestors tried new things to eat, experimented with crude tools which became more and more complex, developed words and other means of communication. In other words; they adapted, they evolved. And as their minds became more complex so did their reactions to the world around them. They evolved feelings. When something happened that made them afraid or sad, they didn’t like it, they thought it was bad or wrong. -A ‘moral’ if you like. Even a small child knows when it dislikes something, long before they can understand a passage from the bible. My cat knows it is wrong to go pee pee on the carpet, dose this mean she’s been reading up on morality when I go out shopping for undergarments? I should hope not, the last thing I need is a naggy cat. The ten commandments are a lovely set of well written rules, presented for all to see, but the truth is that they only restate what people had already known very well for themselves. It’s that little voice inside your head that tells you right from wrong( if it tells you other stuff, you need to get that checked by a shrink). It is also the result of generations of learning what is good and works from what is bad and dangerous-instincts. The same reason my cat’s mother taught her not to doo doo in the den. I know not to steal, kill and lie, and she knows to potty in a hole and bury it. A bit more basic, but effective none the less. And as for “an atheist lives in complete contradiction to the logical conclusions of his worldview.†that is not true and makes no sense. An atheist may live in complete contradiction to a religious worldview but not his or her own.
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-Gnocci Man,You what what they say in the horror movies: NEVER invite them in.
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nic’s back.
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@Penne:
Sorry, but I felt it would be a good thing to argue with the more intelligent side of their religion. it would hardly make us in any way legit athiests if we weren’t able to effectively and clearly argue our views. maybe we should try to get some more pastafarian scientists into this thread, as I am often limited on time.
-see you at the beer volcano
RAmen
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@Nic
Yes, as Gnocchi man said, it is nice to have an intelligent and civil Christian onboard. However, while claiming the logic of our beliefs is false and claiming that we have misinterpreted your beliefs (or scripture) you have done the same alleged diservice to us.
You imply in the first section of your post that we claim our morals to be absolute, “an ignorance to the logical conclusions of atheism, and a very romantic and hypocritically audacious imposition, that is, existential (individual) morality being treated as if it were an absolute. ” To begin, existentialism is much more about ones understanding of reality than it is about morals. Being that it is individualistic it is in a way outside the realm of morality. Morals are a social construct. Example, there is one piece of fruit and two hungry people. Pure individualism would lead to one of the two people starving. Morality arrises when they split the fruit and each gets a half. Did they do this because their God commanded it, possibly, but it is possible that they did this because they realize there is benefit to having companionship (society on a larger scale) in a dangerous world. This certainly does not disprove God’s existence, as nothing really can, but it does illustrate in a simple way that morality does not NEED to be absolute. You are simply repeating the classic argument by C.S. Lewis, that morality is a “signpost” to God. For me, it is no more proof of God’s existence today then it was when he wrote it decades ago. The bottom lines is, morals need not and should not be absolute, they should evolve as do organisms, society and culture. Did the morals of the bible not evolve from the Old Testament to the New?
@Gnocchi Man
I started a website for the Brotherhood of the Potato Pastas: brotherhoodofthepotatopastas.blogspot.org
Not much there yet, but I would like for you to join the order. We are like the jesuits, just more chipper.
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Wench Nikkiee, did you like the rest of the story?
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Surely you have been through all this in your many past posts nic. BTW do you remember which thread they were on nic?
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Jesus Loves Me
Jesus loves me this I know
For the Bible tells me so
Little ones to Him belong
They are weak but He is strong
[Chorus]
Yes, Jesus loves me
Yes, Jesus loves me
Yes, Jesus loves me
The Bible tells me so
Jesus loves me
He who died
Heaven’s gate to open wide
He will wash away my sin
Let His little child come in
[Chorus]
Jesus loves me
He will stay
Close beside me all the way
He’s prepared a home for me
And some day His face I’ll see
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@Mista Gnocchi
most assuredly, I shall be there! Let the potatoe pastas flourish, and may the brotherhood grow until all may experience its savory starchiness!
RAmen
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Deuteronomy 13:8-9
‘You must kill them. Show them no pity. And your hand must strike the first blow.’
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Leviticus 20:13
‘If a man has sex with a man in same way as with a woman, they have committed an abomination. They are certainly to be put to death.’
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Deuteronomy 21:20
‘They shall say to the elders, “This son of ours is stubborn and rebellious. He will not obey us. He is a glutton and a drunkard.”‘
.
Deuteronomy 21:21
‘All the men of the town must then stone him to death. You must banish this evil from among you.’
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-a man can not have sex with a man in same way as with a woman, men don’t have vaginas……normaly
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Deuteronomy 21:22
‘If a man who commits a sin worthy of death is put to death, and you hang him from a tree…’
.
Deuteronomy 21:23
‘…his body must not remain on the tree overnight.’
.
Deuteronomy 21:23
‘You must bury him on the same day, for a hanged man is accursed of God.’
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I really like playing bible. Can we play some other time?
************************************************
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Exodus 23:19
‘You will not boil a kid in its mother’s milk.’
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oh, great. its JLYT again. get this: I don’t believe in Jesus. I don’t believe in immaculate conception. I don’t believe in God, and I don’t believe in smug gloating about a really old book of fiction that is self-contridictory, disgustingly violent, and very, very egotistical.
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Exodus 21:2
‘When you purchase a Hebrew slave…’
.
Exodus 21:2
‘…his service will last for six years.’
.
Exodus 21:2,4
‘In the seventh year he will leave a free man. If his master gives him a wife and she bears him sons or daughters, the wife and children will belong to the master, and he will depart alone.’
.
God is wonderful…
Peace on Earth and Love Jesus!
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-If a man who commits a sin worthy of death is put to death, and you hang him from a tree…’then you have commited a sin and are worthy of death and have to go out and find someone to hang you and then they have commited a sin…….
.
Deuteronomy 21:23
‘…his body must not remain on the tree overnight.’ this will cause spoilage and can spread samonila, you must either finish the leftovers or refridgate them right away!
.
Deuteronomy 21:23
‘You must bury him on the same day, for a hanged man is accursed of God. his parents have spent all their money on a flight to see his hang’n day and they need to get back home tonight so they can go to work in the morning and pay their bills on time.
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How much is it to ask for a decent, peaceful, non-violent religion?
It’s like we pastafarians are the only ones who don’t try to kill everyone.
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Deuteronomy 15:16
‘But if the slave says to you, “I do not want to leave you,” because he loves you and your family, and is well off with you…’
.
Deuteronomy 15:17
‘…then you must take an awl and drive it through the slave’s ear and into the door. He will be your servant forever.’
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Why don’t the fundies that come here ever quote the rest of the bible?
They dig deep to find nice things, which I will add, are few and far between.
I hate fundies! They are dummys…..
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Micheal Martin,
I find your jest to be in terrible taste, as it raises the point that us Pastafarians can only model after our benevolent creator and feel no hate towards you. However, this is where the legal system kicks in, and thanks to the separation of church and state, I am free to make sure you are sent to prison with a cell mate that nick-names you “Bunk Muffin.”
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-or Bunk Bagle,and he can call him Papa Bread Stick
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Penne,
You said that the “ten commandments restate what people had already known very well for themselves. It’s that little voice inside your head that tells you right from wrong.” – Sounds good. But suppose some large people-group arises, and that these people’s “little voices” tells them that the exact oppisite of what your little voice tells you. Who’s right?
/
You also wrote, “Even a small child knows when it dislikes something, long before they can understand a passage from the bible.” – A lot of what the world considers immoral feels good to the person comitting the act. It’s usually someone else who is offended. Why did we evolve empathy? And who’s to say we should care about the next man. (Please don’t say, “Because it’s the right thing to do.” That’s circular reasoning. A please don’t say, “Empathy is what is best for mankind.” That’s not true at all from a rational naturalistic standpoint, which is supposedly where atheist operate from.)
/
Does an atheist have any right to impose a moral standard on the world? -No! The atheist simply has to deal with what ever happens. The atheist has a right to her or his own opinion; however, they must simply keep it to themselves.
/
Mista Gnocchi has accused me of restating C.S. Lewis’ argument; however, I’m actually putting a slight spin to it. I am not arguing for an absolute standard. At least, not at this point. I am simply trying to illustrate that if there is an absolute standard, God must exist.
/
C.S. Lewis wrote, “Human beings, all over the earth, have this curios idea that they ought to behave in a certain way.â€
/
Lewis called this “the Law of Human Nature.†All people inherently believe that some things are absolutely wrong and some things are right. Inside of the human psyche are two buckets. In one bucket we put the things, which we consider good, and the things, which we consider bad we place in the other bucket. The question pertinent here is not what goes into these buckets, but rather, where did these buckets come from?
/
Some will say that these “buckets†have been learned. They will argue that people learn right and wrong, good and bad from their parents, school, and so forth. This would mean that there is really no such thing as evil; and morals are relative to each situation and person. However, if you ask, “Is murdering innocent people wrong?†will anyone respond, “Depends on the situation.†This is an extreme example, but it proves that there is an absolute moral standard. And if there is an absolute moral standard, there has to be a God. Why? Matter and energy are silent; matter and energy could careless if someone is murdered.
/
Maybe you’re thinking, “We as people establish the absolute moral standard. We as highly evolved beings have learned and taught ourselves that we should do what’s best for the masses and the preservation of life. We as morally conscious beings not only are capable of and have established that standard, but by the wisdom of the majority will continue to do so.â€
/
Sounds good, but lots of innocent people have been murdered for what was deemed best for the masses. In fact, if there is no God, and we, as people want to do what’s best for the masses and the preservation of life, we should kill innocent people. The guy who came up with the phrase “survival of the fittest†was named Herbert Spencer. He once wrote, “The poverty of the incapable…starvation of the idle and those shoulderings aside of the weak by the strong…are the decrees of a large far seeing benevolence.†His ideas, which have their roots in Darwin’s interpretation of natural selection, eventually played a huge role in the rise of National Socialism in Nazi Germany. Francis Schaeffer has pointed out that to the Nazis some people “were an unwanted burden on society – parasites who consumed more than they gave.†Considering the rising population and the inevitable depletion of our natural resources, wouldn’t it be best for the masses and the preservation of life if we kill the elderly, handicap, mentally ill, and anyone one else who isn’t making a strong contribution to the whole?
/
Obviously, that type of thinking is purely evil. However, it has been thought. People who considered humanity capable of deciding what’s best for humanity have thought it. My reason for mentioning this type of thinking is to illustrate that just because the majority says a thing is good or bad doesn’t make it so. The majority is incapable of inventing the absolute moral standard because it will always be relative and arbitrary; it will be anything but absolute. Some will say that humanity is constantly learning, and making improvements in the area of morals. This only further proves the point. If we are improving, we are getting closer to perfection. Perfection is the absolute moral standard, which proves God’s existence.
/
“The moment you say that one set of moral ideas can be better than another, you are, in fact, measuring them both by a standard…you are, in fact, comparing them both with some Real Morality.†– C.S. Lewis
/
Is murdering innocent people wrong? Yes. How do we know that it’s wrong? How do we know that it’s absolutely wrong? We know because there is an absolute moral standard, and if there is an absolute moral standard, God must exist.
/
peace
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Wench Nikkiee,
Yes I have been over this one before. My previous posts were on “I wouldn’t want to be you….”
Peace
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@nic
Asshole… pull your head out of your asshole…. Know this…
Jesus will save you… Because you and him are the love kids of a whore!
He has a place in heaven.. just for you!
.
Stick with Jesus… We here don’t love you… we have no beer for you!!!
So go back to the Jesus board… And leave us The Fuck alone….
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I wish Stoning was as readily available via Internet, as it were in biblical times!
Oh hell yea! I’d have a GOD DAMN Hoilday!
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nic-#1-I already told you,if they are telling you naughty things you need to see a shrink,#2,we evolved empathy for the same reason animals did ; our young can’t take care of themselves and humans had a better chance of survival living in groups,just as monkies will groom one another people learned to take care of each other and consider their fellows, it is in their best intrest.#3,Does an atheist have any right to impose a moral standard on the world? No, of course not, but everyone has a right to her or his own opinion;even Christians, however, they must simply keep it to themselves.-RAmen
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@Penne Nov 30th, 2006 at 1:04 pm
Wench Nikkiee, did you like the rest of the story?
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Penne….is that the end????? What about the librarians?
.
@nic
Hi nic
Just thought the rest might like to take it up from there. Good for disscussion for those who are familiar with scripture. Don’t read it my self. Peace to you too nic.
RAmen
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I’m not sure if anyone wants to revisit the thread or not, but here is the link anyway:
http://www.venganza.org/2006/09/19/i-wouldn%e2%80%99t-want-to-be-you-when-you-stand-before-god.htm
RAmen
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Just look for the really long posts
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Quote from the song…. Stairway to FSM
.
If there are fun-dies in your hedge row… Don’t be alarmed now…
Just slice them up with your Cut-lass….
ooohh….. and it makes me wonder………
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I find it immoral of people who try and force your beliefs on others by saying that non-believers are somehow lower on the scale of humanity .
It is even worse when those others are only children who, are given accounts of non-believers as satans spawn ect. The hate mail to this site bears wittness to the fruits of such indoctrination.
BTW nic, have you seen “Jesus Camp”? If not, please watch it and tell us how moral you think that type of indoctrination is, and please don’t say that sort of teaching is isolated.
Training children as young as 5 to become Jesus’s army/soldiers? Reminds me of some other fanatical fundamentalist religions as well as other movements. (Hitler anyone?)
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Penne,
So here’s the bottom line: If there is no God, Christians, Atheists, and Monkeys are all entitled to opinions on morality, but those opinions are existential illusions. It’s not really wrong to murder innocent people; it just feels like it’s wrong to most of us. If some maniac decides to murder our families, we can press charges, and since the majority of the world is just as hypocritical as you and I, we can expect to see that maniac murdered or worse put in prison for life. However, it’s really unfair to the maniac. He was just doing what felt right to him. We (the hypocritical majority) imposed our standards on the poor maniac as if they were absolute.
/
Lets Play Bible,
Those are difficult passages at first glance. If I were to try to perform a proper exegesis of each one, it would be a large post, even by my standards. It should suffice to say that when you teach a baby something you do it gradually. No one attempts to explain quantum physics to a child (Although they might have a better chance of properly interpreting it). No, you build upon previous knowledge. Eastern or Western we all build on prior knowledge. That said, the Old Testament had and has two primary purposes: to reveal the reality and severity of separation from God (sin), and to point to the remedy (Messiah).
/
This of course brings up a whole new set of questions. But I’ll let you ask them because I doubt you’re interested, and I don’t want to spend a lot of time typing something you will not read.
/
Peace
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@Lets Play Bible Nov 30th, 2006 at 2:29 pm
Quote from the song…. Stairway to FSM
.
If there are fun-dies in your hedge row… Don’t be alarmed now…
Just slice them up with your Cut-lass….
ooohh….. and it makes me wonder………
.
Must have a re-listen :)
RAmen
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/Those are difficult passages at first glance. If I were to try to perform a proper exegesis of each one, it would be a large post, even by my standards./
.
Yea, good answer! Stock for a moran!
Why do you post your shit here? Are you jealous? This site runs all fucking week with people sharing recipes and jokes! Assholes like you show up trying to save them. And assholes like me have to show up to defend them! Get a fucking life pal! You are not welcome here with your horseshit bible..MMkay?
Wanna come here and interact and joke lightheartdly? Feel free… The people here will welcome you to their tits! Sorry, I meant Bosoms. But you keep showing up with what is not believed here, and think you will help save us heathens? Do you think you are the Great One itself? I don’t? I think you are a lonely old hag.
As I said, wanna play nice, play this game by it’s rules. Wanna convert someone? Pull your head out of your ass and wash your face!
Peace and Love
RAmen
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nic, if you believe that all morality must come from a divine being, then why accept the bible as any more “right” than the Qu’ran or the Bhagavad-gita? they’re all just old mythologies, constructed to explain the world by people who did not possess the knowledge to attempt a rational investigation.
.
the bible, like many religious texts, is full of tremendous cruelty. i think this is the case because the best way to enforce order over warring middle eastern tribes at the time the OT was written, was to convince them that their god was all-powerful and loved them above all other men (women are pretty much treated as property), but would smite them if they deviated from His holy law, as interpreted and explained by the priests, prophets and shamans of the time. it was a control measure, designed to prevent anarchy and ensure the survival of tribal ideals. it is also a measure which has since become irrelevant to the world.
.
you make some valid points about the nature of moral absolutes, but i personally believe we have this “absolutism” because within us all is the concept that other people deserve to exist. again, it the golden rule – do unto others. this does not come from god, but rather because during the tribal days of mankind’s existence it was the best way for hunter-gatherers and primitive farmers to exist (and generally only applies t one’s own people. before the age of globalisation, and even now, people seem to care far less about the deaths of foreigners. our species has evolved socially since the tribal days, but our instinct are still running to catch up. eugenics and mass exterminations are morally unacceptable to us, but the reality is that something will eventually have to be done to ease the overcrowding of this planet. what that slution is, i do not know, but it will not come in the form of christianity, which is indirectly responsable for much of the state of the world today (and is part of the reason why the american government is doing absolutely nothing to create a sustainable society).
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@ Wench Nikkiee, It’s in the revised Edition.
I’m not sure if it has been released yet.
RAmen
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@Let’s Play Bible:
for crying out loud, calm down will you? we atheists have to defend our beliefs, but we shouldn’t sink to the level of name-calling and arbitrary insults. if we do that, we’re no beter than the damned jesus-camp-supporting fundies.
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@ Homo narrans
I am sorry for my temper, and use of words. But realize, those words of Love from the bible, offend me greatly, so I retaliate with words that I know are as offensive to the poster. That’s all
RAmen
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Isn’t teaching your children to believe in nothing beyond humanity’s limited abilities also a kind of indoctrination? And isn’t it just as immoral to teach your children that people of faith are stupid, weak or ignorant.
To me the real problem is self-righteousness. It is the abuse of a body of knowledge or system of belief to gain power or moral superiority over others that leads to trouble. What makes any of us think our way of thinking or system of belief is worthy of passing on?
Easy, once you have been touched by His noodly goodness all else pales and He takes on all importance in your life. We all simply want to share this and hope that everyone is touch by His noodly appendages.
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@nic
“Sounds good, but lots of innocent people have been murdered for what was deemed best for the masses.”
.
Sounds like the crusades.
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Wow the post are flyin’. My last post was @Wench Nikki’s comment about raising children.
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Nic?? Is that you? Well, whattaya know. ;)
–
“That is, there is no absolute moral standard, right?†Funny, it’s religious people—fundies, if you will—who are the ones clamoring for a absolute standard. Are you sure you’re on the right side of the argument?
–
“Both heaven and hell are eternal. – They will last forever.†As I’m sure has been mentioned before, how is an infinite punishment for a finite crime a sign of a loving god?
-
““Then He will also say to those on the left hand, ‘Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels.â€â€ Whether he meant to or not, god sounds rather conceded….why does he care so much, anyway? Surely he can take some prodding from his creations? He IS god, after all. I love my sister, but if something were to happen and we were to get into a huge fight and never speak again, I wouldn’t condem her anywhere (assuming I had the power to). Just because she didn’t like me any more wouldn’t change what kind of person she was, or what kind of reward/punishment she deserved.
–
“God is holy and cannot tolerate the presence of sin.†I thought god could do whatever he wanted. He doesn’t WANT to tolerate sin, so he doesn’t. Not saying there’s anything wrong with that, but being god he could if he wanted to, no?
““God is, as it were, allergic to sin and evil.â€â€ What kinda infallible being is allergic to anything?
-
“No, if the judge is a good judge, he will punish the criminal for his crime. God is the perfect judge.†Not the way I see it. A judge looks at the situation and judges accordingly—50 years for a crime, let’s say. Because the crime was equal to 50 years in jail. He DOES NOT stick a person in jail for all eternity because of one crime, nor does he send people away for all eternity because they don’t agree with him and whatever his views are personally.
–
“there is an absolute standard, God must exist.†A shame there ISN’T an absolute standard.
–
“However, if you ask, “Is murdering innocent people wrong?†will anyone respond, “Depends on the situation.â€â€ Doesn’t it depend on the situation, though? What is war, but the murder of both soldiers and innocent people who get in the way? But mankind—and god himself, if the bible’s any judge—has long since decided that war is a necessary evil. Now, that’s not how I personally feel, but it’s how it happens. War kills innocent people, but if we hadn’t fought in ww2 more innocent people would have died. So was it ‘wrong’ to fight in that war? Horrible, yes, devestating, yes….but ‘wrong’? Not so sure about that one.
–
“Matter and energy are silent; matter and energy could careless if someone is murdered.†First, you’ve so used this argument before. Second: so? Since matter and energy DON’T care, it’s up to humans TO care, so something somewhere gives a crap. God doesn’t necessarily need to enter into this equation at all.
——
I always love an excuse to type up long posts. The scripture was nice, but had about as much effect as someone quoting you from the Koran.
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someone quoting TO you from the Koran* My bad! I doubt you’ve written anything in the Koran to be quoted.
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@Johnny Corvette Nov 30th, 2006 at 3:10 pm
Isn’t teaching your children to believe in nothing beyond humanity’s limited abilities also a kind of indoctrination? And isn’t it just as immoral to teach your children that people of faith are stupid, weak or ignorant.
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I wasn’t taught any of that, nor have I witnessed teaching of this attitude.
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Do you have to drag me in to this?
I just want to play football.
T O
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Much of the teaching I’m aware of is based on “we are still discovering many things about the world, so go on the evidence as you find it”
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@Gill, I’m glad you’re here.
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@Johnny Corvette
If you have any more posts to me I’ll answer them later if I have time.
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Trix you are wrong to say that you are no dream interpreter. None of the others logically interpreted my dream. One Eyed Jack was very phrophety until he claimed the meatball mouth consumed me, which it did not. Penne said I should get a meatball shaped pet, but that is a false interpretation, as I already have a pet which is more and more meatball shaped every day. But everything Trix said came true. My calculator, which I like because i’m too lazy to use my head, had some programming quirk and I didn’t figure it out until the last problem on a math test. And my mother had made pasta, which my sister did eat, and it could have been mine had she not eaten it. And the FSM warned me of all these things, but sadly I paid no heed. Hooray for Trish to continue the tradition of interpretations that will come true eventually no matter what, or can’t be proved! Hail Trish, our NEW PROPHET!
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@Johnny Corvette Nov 30th, 2006 at 3:10 pm
By the way, I am vehemently opposed to teaching absolutes of any kind in education, but especially belief absolutes. That is for church NOT school!
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um i meant trix not trish very sorry oh piratey one. I beg ur forgivness
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@Homo narrans
“it the golden rule – do unto others. this does not come from god, but rather because during the tribal days of mankind’s existence it was the best way for hunter-gatherers and primitive farmers to exist”
Thank you! I was trying to find a good way to say pretty much the same thing, but I’m just not eloquent enough. :)
It is unfortunate that we can not be Leavers anymore. Now there was a working society!
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@Lets play bible:
I can have a slave? I might have to switch back to Jesusism.
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@Wench Nikkiee Nov 30th, 2006 at 3:38 pm
“By the way, I am vehemently opposed to teaching absolutes of any kind in education, ”
Clarification for nit pickers:
Some absolutes are, and should, be taught, for example basic math, geography, letters of the aphabet. (or whatever language……. whatever country)
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AP: 30/11/2006 15:35
George W. Bush Elected Pope…Cardinals Stunned!
Reported by Monsignor Guido Sarducci
The almost 120 Cardinals from around the world that gathered to
choose a successor in the Vatican’s Sistine Chapel were stunned and
expressed amazement.
Cardinal Mohoney the Vatican spokesperson had this to say…”We in the conclave are all shocked. We cast our vote’s using
these new electronic voting machines. The results overwhelmingly
favored George W. Bush over all the Catholic candidates. The last
Pope, John Paul, was a superb linguist, fluently speaking 11
languages, this one can’t speak fluently in one language. We just
don’t know what to say.”
The White House has announced that Dick Cheney will assume command as
President of the world tomorrow morning, when “W” travels to Rome to
begin his duties as Pope.
George W. Bush had this to say moments ago as he spoke from the Rose
Garden:”I am honored to be the spiritual lighthouse, and the first War
Pope. I promise Evangelical Catho-licks and Prostates alike that
I will be embodied in salvation and fair in the performance of my
duties.
I am a Unitifier, not a Divide-a-cater. I am obliged to try to
save as many lost souls as I can, at least the Devout Wealthy Elite
Souls, as it is well known that Heaven is a very select place,
indeed, it is more exclusive than even the best of country clubs.
It is a members only Heaven. I may have to put a fence around it.
I will perform miracles in a fair and balanced manner. Just as God
used to wipe out entire races of people without warning, burning
whole towns of perverts, killing off entire nations, and drowning
everybody without a ticket to board Noah’s Ark, I shall deliver the
world from Evil Empires as I unleash the Apocalypse Wrath of
Revelations.
I will ensure the Rapture and the Reunion with our beloved deceased
family members and with our departed purebred pets. I will not
allow those awful Liberal Sissy Homosapiens to marry each other and
I will put and end to the Clergy marrying Choirboys.
I will lead the Crusades against all them towel-headed heathens-
possessed voodoo-hoodoo barbarians who’s Pseudo-religions that
don’t accept the Lord as the Light of Democracy, and who worship
fake, made-up gods.
They shall suffer my Godly Conservative Wrath and I will Destroy
them with my Cherubic Armies of Angels and they shall burn for
eternity in Hell, because Me and God don’t take no prisoners!”
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@Public Service Announcement:
.
Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaagggggghhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The Horror!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Funny stuff, though. Darth Cheney as president of the world…i can see that.
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You really also have to question christians morals when they go to developing countries, (where populations are mostly uneducated and AIDS and unwanted pregancy is rife.)
and preach against the use of condoms. By the way does anyone know where this was mentioned in any scripture?
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I read recently that many people have a psychotic hatred of all things Bush. I guess it is true.
@Lets Play Bible – I have not heard about any recent stonings, slave trading or honor killings out of the Christian community of late. Does this mean I don’t get a slave?
May his noodly appendages take away your hatred
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Maybe it said something like “Thou shalt not use any protection against disease, for it is gods will” ???
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Why doesn’t god provide food, and immunity to the numerous diseases that afflict babies and children in many parts of Africa, for example. Surely these are too young to have accumulated too many sins. Perhaps this comes under the “mysterious ways” clause?
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@ Johnny Corvette
You mis-quoted me. I said I wished Stonings, were as readily available now for Internet use, as they were in the time of the bible. I have no hate, unless I’m pushed in to it. Or it’s pushed on me.
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The Christians must save the world! It is their duty, to take away comdoms, so the heathens can give each other AIDS. It makes the Christians job easier if you think about it.
RAmen
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Why?Why?Why did the God of evolution (Darwin?) invent AIDS?
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Why?Why?Why? Did the God of Evolution make Brittny Spears’s Hooha??
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um… derr……God of Evolution??????
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@ Wench Nikkiee, This will better explin, why some MUST die of disease.
.
Deuteronomy 28:15
‘If you are not careful to keep all of God’s laws…’
.
Deuteronomy 28:21, 30
‘…then all of the following curses will befall and overtake you. Though you will get engaged to marry a woman…’
.
Deuteronomy 28:30
‘…another man will rape her.’
.
Deuteronomy 28:63, 27
‘God will take delight in ruining and destroying you. He will afflict you with hemorrhoids, scurvy, and the itch, and you will find no cure.’
.
Deuteronomy 28:35, 27
‘God will strike you with foul ulcers, boils, and tumors from which there will be no cure, from the sole of your foot to the top of your head.’
.
Deuteronomy 28:28
‘God will strike you with madness, blindness, and confusion until you grope your way around at noon like a blind man groping in the dark, and your steps lead you nowhere.’
.
Leviticus 26:22
‘God will send wild animals to attack you.’
.
Deuteronomy 28:53
‘You will eat the flesh of your own sons and daughters.’
.
Deuteronomy 28:22
‘God will strike you down with consumption, fever, rash, drought, blight, and mildew. And these will pursue you until your ruin.’
.
Deuteronomy 28:45
‘All of these curses will befall you for not having obeyed the voice of God your God by keeping his laws which he has laid down for you.’
.
Hope this helps.
RAmen
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That must be the one the fundies are always referring to. The one that grows babies in ponds. They just have to have a god for everything don’t they.
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But isn’t that for sinners? What about little babies? Or fanatical adherent believers who aquire disease simply because the reservoir of disease has expanded due to all the sinners.
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Deuteronomy 28:15
‘If you are not careful to keep all of God’s laws…’
.
Deuteronomy 28:53
‘You will eat the flesh of your own sons and daughters.’
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-nic- ,don’t try to put words in my mouth. If you don’t want to listen to the answers, don’t bother comming here to pretend that you want to play at rational conversation. People cannot ‘go around murdering’ because we have laws against that. It is fair to put them in jail because they are sick individuals and if you kill someone it dosen’t matter if you think it’s the right thing to do,you are screwed up and need to be put away. If, on the other hand,it was self defence that is different and is a matter for the courts to decide.Opinions are NOT existential illusions. They are feelings, instincts and common sense that have been formed and EVOLVED over a long period of timeand are shared by the general population-OF EVERY FAITH, OR LACK THERE OF. By twisting my words you only make your self appear silly. If you have nothing sensible, it would be better for you to remain silent and just appear a fool,then to open your mouth and remove all doubt.
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Peace
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Well I know some sinners (big sins too….all the way) and they didn’t eat their babies?
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@Lets Play Bible
This god character sure sounds like it had some severe kind of sadistic personality disorder.
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@Penne Nov 30th, 2006 at 5:24 pm
“-nic- ,don’t try to put words in my mouth.”
.
That’s the only way christians have of attacking non-believers morality!
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Wench Nikkiee’Why doesn’t god provide food, …….. sins. Perhaps this comes under the “mysterious ways†clause?’ -Well it sure isn’t Santa Clause, he don’t stand for that crap.
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@ Wench Nikkiee Yep! Hes quite a guy!
The saddest thing today, were that “nics” quotes were probably ones you have heard before, because they were of the Loving God.
My quotes came from randomly opening the Good book.
RAmen
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Ok I’m here.
What needs to be done? Hummm, what a mess!
Good thing I brought the bucket geez!
Ramen
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I’ve never read the good book and it’s not on my reading list. I’ve never read 99% of nic’s posts either as all I can see is long long preaching. I take my view of christian “moralty” based their actions and social engineering, that I have witnessed througout my life.
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You know I can’t seem to find the recipe, supposedly written by Darwin, for growing babies in pond water. Does anyone know where I can find it?
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Swabbies Bucket Nov 30th, 2006 at 5:48 pm
“Good thing I brought the bucket geez!”
.
Swabbies, I only glimpsed the reference in one of nic’s earliest posts, but I believe you need two buckets?
Ramen
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hmmm… I seem to have missed some ripper arguments during my rather extensive down time :(
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Still, kudos to Penne, gill and that rather wenchy character for fighting back those benighted heathens.
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Oh, and referring to the titular comment; I just saw a great little show. It was one of those “police videos exposed” specials, where they have all the idiot car chases, and drug busts.
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The reason I bring it up though, was it had a segment on a woman who tried to hire a contract killer to take out her husband. Needless to say, she made a rather big mistake when she called a party supply shop to do this, and the shopowner played along, reported her to the police, and she was caught.
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Here’s the cincher though…
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Why did she want to kill her husband?
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The answer; She was unhappily married, but because she was a “big person” in the local church, she would not go through with a divorce.
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Religion; The reason rednecks kill their spouses!
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Crap I see I do! I’ll break out my special bucket for now!
Wow! Kudos to the Deuteronominist! Good stuff ye gots there!
Ramen
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13,
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You asked for an interpretation and I gave it. Did I misunderstand you? Do you already have an interpretation and were performing some sort of test? I interpret (correctly I believe) that the pasta was symbolic of humanity. In a proper FSM world view (can there be any other sort?) we are all the stuff of pasta. ;-)
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OEJ, Ship’s Navigator
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OEJ, Ship’s Navigator and Pastafarian theologian!
RAmen OEJ
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Jingles good to see you back. It’s bloody hard work sometimes, without all you guys around.
RAmen to you
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Nic is back!
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Welcome back, Nic. Glad to see you again, but I’m surprised to see you rehashing the morality discussion. I thought we settled that one.
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Let’s ge to the heart of this. Before and now, you claim that morality comes from the Bible. This is an unsupportable position. If you accept that moralitly comes from the Bible, then you must accept the authority of the Bible on moral matters. Accepting the Bible on matters of morality requires all the old testament punishments like keeping slaves (a practice Jesus also endorses). Any civilized person today will reject these as immoral.
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So, if the Bible is the source of all morality, where does the standard come from that allows a modern Christian to reject this and other Biblical standards as immoral? Nothing in the Bible allows us to reject them. Obviously, there exists a moral standard outside of scripture that we apply to moderate biblical morality.
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Surveys and studies have shown repeatedly that people from all backgrounds (religious and non-religious) make very similar choices when given moral dilemmas. For example, in the classic pedestrian on a railroad dilemmas, subjects will overwhelmingly agree that it is wrong to push a person onto the tracks to save five others, but is acceptable to switch the track to kill one and save five. Nowhere in the Bible do you find passages to explain this distinction.
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OEJ
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Correction; replace “punishments” with “practice”. Pardon my sloppy editing.
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1 id jack: nonononono but u said that the meatballs ate me when they didn’t. I now realize that you were using a complex metaphor involving the me symbolizing humanity and therefore pasta. My mistake! His noodly appendage must have mistakenly tightened it’s grip on my brain too hard for a moment.
Hail to the Perpetrator of Intelligent Falling!
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Gill you wrote, “Not the way I see it. A judge looks at the situation and judges accordingly—50 years for a crime, let’s say. Because the crime was equal to 50 years in jail. He DOES NOT stick a person in jail for all eternity because of one crime, nor does he send people away for all eternity because they don’t agree with him and whatever his views are personally.” – The problem is that you are viewing everything through a rather simplistic lens. This is not your fault. It’s the lens that the Judeo-Christian world has given you. Let me give you a good example: The usual Judeo-Christian understanding of God and His ways is like Newtonian physics. It’s very simple and easy to comprehend. However, it’s really more like quantum physics. I do not mean that God is arbitrary or some sort of random swerve, but rather that He and His ways are extremely complicated. So here is an answer to your statement: First, God fashioned you for eternity, leave your traditional view of God behind for a second…Isn’t it possible that He cannot undo His work? Second, in Exodus 21:23-25 God sets forth the famous and often poorly interpreted “eye for eye” principle. This basically shows us that God is just.
Lastly, in Matthew 11:24 Jesus says, “But I say to you that it shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom in the Day of Judgment than for you.” This indicates that the experience in hell is relative.
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Penne
I am sorry that the point of my argument has eluded you. You wrote, “People cannot ‘go around murdering’ because we have laws against that.” – Who made those laws? What gives them the right? You said that murderers are “sick” and that they “need to be put away”. Can you substantiate that claim? That is, starting from a purely naturalistic framework, what gives anyone the right to judge the behavior of another human? You are telling me your feelings. What if a murderer tells me that he feels like your feelings are sick? What’s the difference?
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peace
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@ nic, Oh you asked me to support my morals statement, try this, it is ingrained into the human genome via evolutionary biology, and not divinely inspired. It is generally taboo to steal, murder, cheat, assault babies, be adulterous, and perform lewd acts on llamas because such actions are not advantageous for the well being of the the local group. Over time, via natural selection, this trait has been incorporated into the human DNA code, a sort of powerful genetic memory governing societal behavior.
I won’t welcome you back, ’cause I wish you never came here to begin with. Just to pick a fight, how sad! And you use your God as your sword.
Ramen
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Hail Pastafarians! His Noodleness has planted another thought in my head.
It is difficuly to describe its incredible holyness in words, but I will do my best.
Here is the Thought.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
There it is. Only you must imagine it much MORE so, and with extra squiggles.
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@ 13 WOW! Thats pretty deep it is!
Ramen
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BTW I know why people don’t kill each other. It is because evolution designed the human brain, and as we evolved it was in our genes’ beniffit to look after our young. The genes for that passed on. As we grew into higher primates we banded together. Those tribes who best looked after their groups wellfair survived. Those who didn’t didn’t. So maternal/paternal care was extended to the tribe. Unfortunately it did not go much furthur when we became human, because to this day people kill people that they do not feel close too, particularly if those people live in a different area. That is it. Plain, if not simple. No complex notions of God or morality need to be involved. I’m not insulting those who believe in God, and I see nothing wrong in believing that it was he who did this, but if you are faith based, then stick to faith and don’t argue the point with us or tote them as fact or even plausible theory to our children.
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Sorry, I forgot to add a “witty” ending.
May His Noodleness forget all that blasphemy I uttered and know that I only beleive in Him and His creations!
There we go.
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Did I ever tell you folks about the time I picked 37 bushels of grapes in 4 hrs?
Dang I was tired! And purple too!
Ramen
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sombodys bitter…
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The caveman stands under the tree. A coconut falls unto his head. He assumes the coconut fell because it was ripe, and settled down to eat it. Little did he know that he was the nect victim of the evil fruit dropping murdurer. A watermelon fell on his head. He died.
Some days later, a beautiful cave woman peicefully sits under a different tree. She has not heard what happened to the caveman. A coconut falls on her head. She feels that someone drops it, runs away, and is saved.
Thus through generations and generations of natural selection, those who subscribed to the conspiracy theory that someone caused the chaotic events in their lives survived, while those who did not did not. Eventually they began beleiving that Someone (note caps on S) was truely behind EVERYTHING. Some tribes called the being Shiva, some El, some Yaweh, some Allah. They weren’t too far off in their beleifs. They only got the name and some minor points of litergy wrong. The Being behind the world was, and is, the Flying Spaghetti monster.
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