flimsy moral standards? Lets see here.
If I were to shoot your wife, would you have a problem with that?
-michael martin
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An elaborate spoof on Intelligent Design, The Gospel of the Flying Spaghetti Monster is neither too elaborate nor too spoofy to succeed in nailing the fallacies of ID. It's even wackier than Jonathan Swift's suggestion that the Irish eat their children as a way to keep them from being a burden, and it may offend just as many people, but Henderson, described elsewhere as a 25-year-old "out-of-work physics major," puts satire to the same serious use that Swift did. Oh, yes, it is very funny. -- Scientific American
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I’m not sure if anyone wants to revisit the thread or not, but here is the link anyway:
http://www.venganza.org/2006/09/19/i-wouldn%e2%80%99t-want-to-be-you-when-you-stand-before-god.htm
RAmen
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Just look for the really long posts
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Quote from the song…. Stairway to FSM
.
If there are fun-dies in your hedge row… Don’t be alarmed now…
Just slice them up with your Cut-lass….
ooohh….. and it makes me wonder………
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I find it immoral of people who try and force your beliefs on others by saying that non-believers are somehow lower on the scale of humanity .
It is even worse when those others are only children who, are given accounts of non-believers as satans spawn ect. The hate mail to this site bears wittness to the fruits of such indoctrination.
BTW nic, have you seen “Jesus Camp”? If not, please watch it and tell us how moral you think that type of indoctrination is, and please don’t say that sort of teaching is isolated.
Training children as young as 5 to become Jesus’s army/soldiers? Reminds me of some other fanatical fundamentalist religions as well as other movements. (Hitler anyone?)
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Penne,
So here’s the bottom line: If there is no God, Christians, Atheists, and Monkeys are all entitled to opinions on morality, but those opinions are existential illusions. It’s not really wrong to murder innocent people; it just feels like it’s wrong to most of us. If some maniac decides to murder our families, we can press charges, and since the majority of the world is just as hypocritical as you and I, we can expect to see that maniac murdered or worse put in prison for life. However, it’s really unfair to the maniac. He was just doing what felt right to him. We (the hypocritical majority) imposed our standards on the poor maniac as if they were absolute.
/
Lets Play Bible,
Those are difficult passages at first glance. If I were to try to perform a proper exegesis of each one, it would be a large post, even by my standards. It should suffice to say that when you teach a baby something you do it gradually. No one attempts to explain quantum physics to a child (Although they might have a better chance of properly interpreting it). No, you build upon previous knowledge. Eastern or Western we all build on prior knowledge. That said, the Old Testament had and has two primary purposes: to reveal the reality and severity of separation from God (sin), and to point to the remedy (Messiah).
/
This of course brings up a whole new set of questions. But I’ll let you ask them because I doubt you’re interested, and I don’t want to spend a lot of time typing something you will not read.
/
Peace
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@Lets Play Bible Nov 30th, 2006 at 2:29 pm
Quote from the song…. Stairway to FSM
.
If there are fun-dies in your hedge row… Don’t be alarmed now…
Just slice them up with your Cut-lass….
ooohh….. and it makes me wonder………
.
Must have a re-listen :)
RAmen
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/Those are difficult passages at first glance. If I were to try to perform a proper exegesis of each one, it would be a large post, even by my standards./
.
Yea, good answer! Stock for a moran!
Why do you post your shit here? Are you jealous? This site runs all fucking week with people sharing recipes and jokes! Assholes like you show up trying to save them. And assholes like me have to show up to defend them! Get a fucking life pal! You are not welcome here with your horseshit bible..MMkay?
Wanna come here and interact and joke lightheartdly? Feel free… The people here will welcome you to their tits! Sorry, I meant Bosoms. But you keep showing up with what is not believed here, and think you will help save us heathens? Do you think you are the Great One itself? I don’t? I think you are a lonely old hag.
As I said, wanna play nice, play this game by it’s rules. Wanna convert someone? Pull your head out of your ass and wash your face!
Peace and Love
RAmen
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nic, if you believe that all morality must come from a divine being, then why accept the bible as any more “right” than the Qu’ran or the Bhagavad-gita? they’re all just old mythologies, constructed to explain the world by people who did not possess the knowledge to attempt a rational investigation.
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the bible, like many religious texts, is full of tremendous cruelty. i think this is the case because the best way to enforce order over warring middle eastern tribes at the time the OT was written, was to convince them that their god was all-powerful and loved them above all other men (women are pretty much treated as property), but would smite them if they deviated from His holy law, as interpreted and explained by the priests, prophets and shamans of the time. it was a control measure, designed to prevent anarchy and ensure the survival of tribal ideals. it is also a measure which has since become irrelevant to the world.
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you make some valid points about the nature of moral absolutes, but i personally believe we have this “absolutism” because within us all is the concept that other people deserve to exist. again, it the golden rule – do unto others. this does not come from god, but rather because during the tribal days of mankind’s existence it was the best way for hunter-gatherers and primitive farmers to exist (and generally only applies t one’s own people. before the age of globalisation, and even now, people seem to care far less about the deaths of foreigners. our species has evolved socially since the tribal days, but our instinct are still running to catch up. eugenics and mass exterminations are morally unacceptable to us, but the reality is that something will eventually have to be done to ease the overcrowding of this planet. what that slution is, i do not know, but it will not come in the form of christianity, which is indirectly responsable for much of the state of the world today (and is part of the reason why the american government is doing absolutely nothing to create a sustainable society).
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@ Wench Nikkiee, It’s in the revised Edition.
I’m not sure if it has been released yet.
RAmen
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@Let’s Play Bible:
for crying out loud, calm down will you? we atheists have to defend our beliefs, but we shouldn’t sink to the level of name-calling and arbitrary insults. if we do that, we’re no beter than the damned jesus-camp-supporting fundies.
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@ Homo narrans
I am sorry for my temper, and use of words. But realize, those words of Love from the bible, offend me greatly, so I retaliate with words that I know are as offensive to the poster. That’s all
RAmen
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Isn’t teaching your children to believe in nothing beyond humanity’s limited abilities also a kind of indoctrination? And isn’t it just as immoral to teach your children that people of faith are stupid, weak or ignorant.
To me the real problem is self-righteousness. It is the abuse of a body of knowledge or system of belief to gain power or moral superiority over others that leads to trouble. What makes any of us think our way of thinking or system of belief is worthy of passing on?
Easy, once you have been touched by His noodly goodness all else pales and He takes on all importance in your life. We all simply want to share this and hope that everyone is touch by His noodly appendages.
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@nic
“Sounds good, but lots of innocent people have been murdered for what was deemed best for the masses.”
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Sounds like the crusades.
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Wow the post are flyin’. My last post was @Wench Nikki’s comment about raising children.
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Nic?? Is that you? Well, whattaya know. ;)
–
“That is, there is no absolute moral standard, right?†Funny, it’s religious people—fundies, if you will—who are the ones clamoring for a absolute standard. Are you sure you’re on the right side of the argument?
–
“Both heaven and hell are eternal. – They will last forever.†As I’m sure has been mentioned before, how is an infinite punishment for a finite crime a sign of a loving god?
-
““Then He will also say to those on the left hand, ‘Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels.â€â€ Whether he meant to or not, god sounds rather conceded….why does he care so much, anyway? Surely he can take some prodding from his creations? He IS god, after all. I love my sister, but if something were to happen and we were to get into a huge fight and never speak again, I wouldn’t condem her anywhere (assuming I had the power to). Just because she didn’t like me any more wouldn’t change what kind of person she was, or what kind of reward/punishment she deserved.
–
“God is holy and cannot tolerate the presence of sin.†I thought god could do whatever he wanted. He doesn’t WANT to tolerate sin, so he doesn’t. Not saying there’s anything wrong with that, but being god he could if he wanted to, no?
““God is, as it were, allergic to sin and evil.â€â€ What kinda infallible being is allergic to anything?
-
“No, if the judge is a good judge, he will punish the criminal for his crime. God is the perfect judge.†Not the way I see it. A judge looks at the situation and judges accordingly—50 years for a crime, let’s say. Because the crime was equal to 50 years in jail. He DOES NOT stick a person in jail for all eternity because of one crime, nor does he send people away for all eternity because they don’t agree with him and whatever his views are personally.
–
“there is an absolute standard, God must exist.†A shame there ISN’T an absolute standard.
–
“However, if you ask, “Is murdering innocent people wrong?†will anyone respond, “Depends on the situation.â€â€ Doesn’t it depend on the situation, though? What is war, but the murder of both soldiers and innocent people who get in the way? But mankind—and god himself, if the bible’s any judge—has long since decided that war is a necessary evil. Now, that’s not how I personally feel, but it’s how it happens. War kills innocent people, but if we hadn’t fought in ww2 more innocent people would have died. So was it ‘wrong’ to fight in that war? Horrible, yes, devestating, yes….but ‘wrong’? Not so sure about that one.
–
“Matter and energy are silent; matter and energy could careless if someone is murdered.†First, you’ve so used this argument before. Second: so? Since matter and energy DON’T care, it’s up to humans TO care, so something somewhere gives a crap. God doesn’t necessarily need to enter into this equation at all.
——
I always love an excuse to type up long posts. The scripture was nice, but had about as much effect as someone quoting you from the Koran.
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someone quoting TO you from the Koran* My bad! I doubt you’ve written anything in the Koran to be quoted.
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@Johnny Corvette Nov 30th, 2006 at 3:10 pm
Isn’t teaching your children to believe in nothing beyond humanity’s limited abilities also a kind of indoctrination? And isn’t it just as immoral to teach your children that people of faith are stupid, weak or ignorant.
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I wasn’t taught any of that, nor have I witnessed teaching of this attitude.
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Do you have to drag me in to this?
I just want to play football.
T O
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Much of the teaching I’m aware of is based on “we are still discovering many things about the world, so go on the evidence as you find it”
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@Gill, I’m glad you’re here.
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@Johnny Corvette
If you have any more posts to me I’ll answer them later if I have time.
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Trix you are wrong to say that you are no dream interpreter. None of the others logically interpreted my dream. One Eyed Jack was very phrophety until he claimed the meatball mouth consumed me, which it did not. Penne said I should get a meatball shaped pet, but that is a false interpretation, as I already have a pet which is more and more meatball shaped every day. But everything Trix said came true. My calculator, which I like because i’m too lazy to use my head, had some programming quirk and I didn’t figure it out until the last problem on a math test. And my mother had made pasta, which my sister did eat, and it could have been mine had she not eaten it. And the FSM warned me of all these things, but sadly I paid no heed. Hooray for Trish to continue the tradition of interpretations that will come true eventually no matter what, or can’t be proved! Hail Trish, our NEW PROPHET!
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@Johnny Corvette Nov 30th, 2006 at 3:10 pm
By the way, I am vehemently opposed to teaching absolutes of any kind in education, but especially belief absolutes. That is for church NOT school!
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um i meant trix not trish very sorry oh piratey one. I beg ur forgivness
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@Homo narrans
“it the golden rule – do unto others. this does not come from god, but rather because during the tribal days of mankind’s existence it was the best way for hunter-gatherers and primitive farmers to exist”
Thank you! I was trying to find a good way to say pretty much the same thing, but I’m just not eloquent enough. :)
It is unfortunate that we can not be Leavers anymore. Now there was a working society!
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@Lets play bible:
I can have a slave? I might have to switch back to Jesusism.
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@Wench Nikkiee Nov 30th, 2006 at 3:38 pm
“By the way, I am vehemently opposed to teaching absolutes of any kind in education, ”
Clarification for nit pickers:
Some absolutes are, and should, be taught, for example basic math, geography, letters of the aphabet. (or whatever language……. whatever country)
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AP: 30/11/2006 15:35
George W. Bush Elected Pope…Cardinals Stunned!
Reported by Monsignor Guido Sarducci
The almost 120 Cardinals from around the world that gathered to
choose a successor in the Vatican’s Sistine Chapel were stunned and
expressed amazement.
Cardinal Mohoney the Vatican spokesperson had this to say…”We in the conclave are all shocked. We cast our vote’s using
these new electronic voting machines. The results overwhelmingly
favored George W. Bush over all the Catholic candidates. The last
Pope, John Paul, was a superb linguist, fluently speaking 11
languages, this one can’t speak fluently in one language. We just
don’t know what to say.”
The White House has announced that Dick Cheney will assume command as
President of the world tomorrow morning, when “W” travels to Rome to
begin his duties as Pope.
George W. Bush had this to say moments ago as he spoke from the Rose
Garden:”I am honored to be the spiritual lighthouse, and the first War
Pope. I promise Evangelical Catho-licks and Prostates alike that
I will be embodied in salvation and fair in the performance of my
duties.
I am a Unitifier, not a Divide-a-cater. I am obliged to try to
save as many lost souls as I can, at least the Devout Wealthy Elite
Souls, as it is well known that Heaven is a very select place,
indeed, it is more exclusive than even the best of country clubs.
It is a members only Heaven. I may have to put a fence around it.
I will perform miracles in a fair and balanced manner. Just as God
used to wipe out entire races of people without warning, burning
whole towns of perverts, killing off entire nations, and drowning
everybody without a ticket to board Noah’s Ark, I shall deliver the
world from Evil Empires as I unleash the Apocalypse Wrath of
Revelations.
I will ensure the Rapture and the Reunion with our beloved deceased
family members and with our departed purebred pets. I will not
allow those awful Liberal Sissy Homosapiens to marry each other and
I will put and end to the Clergy marrying Choirboys.
I will lead the Crusades against all them towel-headed heathens-
possessed voodoo-hoodoo barbarians who’s Pseudo-religions that
don’t accept the Lord as the Light of Democracy, and who worship
fake, made-up gods.
They shall suffer my Godly Conservative Wrath and I will Destroy
them with my Cherubic Armies of Angels and they shall burn for
eternity in Hell, because Me and God don’t take no prisoners!”
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@Public Service Announcement:
.
Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaagggggghhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The Horror!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Funny stuff, though. Darth Cheney as president of the world…i can see that.
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You really also have to question christians morals when they go to developing countries, (where populations are mostly uneducated and AIDS and unwanted pregancy is rife.)
and preach against the use of condoms. By the way does anyone know where this was mentioned in any scripture?
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I read recently that many people have a psychotic hatred of all things Bush. I guess it is true.
@Lets Play Bible – I have not heard about any recent stonings, slave trading or honor killings out of the Christian community of late. Does this mean I don’t get a slave?
May his noodly appendages take away your hatred
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Maybe it said something like “Thou shalt not use any protection against disease, for it is gods will” ???
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Why doesn’t god provide food, and immunity to the numerous diseases that afflict babies and children in many parts of Africa, for example. Surely these are too young to have accumulated too many sins. Perhaps this comes under the “mysterious ways” clause?
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@ Johnny Corvette
You mis-quoted me. I said I wished Stonings, were as readily available now for Internet use, as they were in the time of the bible. I have no hate, unless I’m pushed in to it. Or it’s pushed on me.
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The Christians must save the world! It is their duty, to take away comdoms, so the heathens can give each other AIDS. It makes the Christians job easier if you think about it.
RAmen
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Why?Why?Why did the God of evolution (Darwin?) invent AIDS?
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Why?Why?Why? Did the God of Evolution make Brittny Spears’s Hooha??
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um… derr……God of Evolution??????
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@ Wench Nikkiee, This will better explin, why some MUST die of disease.
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Deuteronomy 28:15
‘If you are not careful to keep all of God’s laws…’
.
Deuteronomy 28:21, 30
‘…then all of the following curses will befall and overtake you. Though you will get engaged to marry a woman…’
.
Deuteronomy 28:30
‘…another man will rape her.’
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Deuteronomy 28:63, 27
‘God will take delight in ruining and destroying you. He will afflict you with hemorrhoids, scurvy, and the itch, and you will find no cure.’
.
Deuteronomy 28:35, 27
‘God will strike you with foul ulcers, boils, and tumors from which there will be no cure, from the sole of your foot to the top of your head.’
.
Deuteronomy 28:28
‘God will strike you with madness, blindness, and confusion until you grope your way around at noon like a blind man groping in the dark, and your steps lead you nowhere.’
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Leviticus 26:22
‘God will send wild animals to attack you.’
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Deuteronomy 28:53
‘You will eat the flesh of your own sons and daughters.’
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Deuteronomy 28:22
‘God will strike you down with consumption, fever, rash, drought, blight, and mildew. And these will pursue you until your ruin.’
.
Deuteronomy 28:45
‘All of these curses will befall you for not having obeyed the voice of God your God by keeping his laws which he has laid down for you.’
.
Hope this helps.
RAmen
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That must be the one the fundies are always referring to. The one that grows babies in ponds. They just have to have a god for everything don’t they.
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But isn’t that for sinners? What about little babies? Or fanatical adherent believers who aquire disease simply because the reservoir of disease has expanded due to all the sinners.
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Deuteronomy 28:15
‘If you are not careful to keep all of God’s laws…’
.
Deuteronomy 28:53
‘You will eat the flesh of your own sons and daughters.’
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-nic- ,don’t try to put words in my mouth. If you don’t want to listen to the answers, don’t bother comming here to pretend that you want to play at rational conversation. People cannot ‘go around murdering’ because we have laws against that. It is fair to put them in jail because they are sick individuals and if you kill someone it dosen’t matter if you think it’s the right thing to do,you are screwed up and need to be put away. If, on the other hand,it was self defence that is different and is a matter for the courts to decide.Opinions are NOT existential illusions. They are feelings, instincts and common sense that have been formed and EVOLVED over a long period of timeand are shared by the general population-OF EVERY FAITH, OR LACK THERE OF. By twisting my words you only make your self appear silly. If you have nothing sensible, it would be better for you to remain silent and just appear a fool,then to open your mouth and remove all doubt.
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Peace
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Well I know some sinners (big sins too….all the way) and they didn’t eat their babies?
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@Lets Play Bible
This god character sure sounds like it had some severe kind of sadistic personality disorder.
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@Penne Nov 30th, 2006 at 5:24 pm
“-nic- ,don’t try to put words in my mouth.”
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That’s the only way christians have of attacking non-believers morality!
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Wench Nikkiee’Why doesn’t god provide food, …….. sins. Perhaps this comes under the “mysterious ways†clause?’ -Well it sure isn’t Santa Clause, he don’t stand for that crap.
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@ Wench Nikkiee Yep! Hes quite a guy!
The saddest thing today, were that “nics” quotes were probably ones you have heard before, because they were of the Loving God.
My quotes came from randomly opening the Good book.
RAmen
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Ok I’m here.
What needs to be done? Hummm, what a mess!
Good thing I brought the bucket geez!
Ramen
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