I don’t think you understand. It makes just as much sense as any other religion. You don’t go bashing them, do you? May He forgive you for your ignorance.
“u” does not equate to “you”
“ur” does not equate to “your”
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how about using your alloted time to learn how to spell? as mentioned, this is our spare time.
> wow…u guys truly are morons…what a productive use of ur allotted time…
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My English teacher told me to practice my writing
going to some crap website and write some bullshit.
So here I am, Jackass! :-)
I don’t think anyone who uses “Mr. Frodo” as their online handle has any right to tell other people they’re not using their time wisely. Go back to your mom’s basement and wish you had a girlfriend, dumbass.
That’s just not fair,do we come to your sci-fi conventions and make fun of the way you spend your time:making pointy ears and second rate costumes and learning to speak make-belive dilects.-No,of course not ,what a waste of time that would be.
“You guys arrrrr all a bunch of Fags that inclueds you Mr. Frodo”
-NOT mr.Frodo
I notice that you mispelled the word ‘are’and ‘include’, and failed to use proper grammar. You should have written, “You guys are all a bunch of fags. That includes you Mr. Frodo.”
Don’t thank me, just trying to give you some help. :)
“wow…u guys truly are morons…what a productive use of ur allotted time…”
well, it seems to me that it is you who are waisting your time. Posting moronic opinions on pages you do not understand…May His Noodlyness enlighten you.
hi, i have heard about the FSM,and am glad to find a site about it. i personally don’t belive in him/her/it? i don’t know, please don’t be mad. but, why can the FSM not exist? i think that it is a wonderful idea, and i support you all! i think that there is a better way of handling critics, but who am i to judge? i really think what you all have here is great, and don’t let anyone tell you otherwise. i have no intint (i can’t spell) on joining, but like i said, i support you all
Thanks Skittles! Don’t suppose you’re Wiccan by any chance? I heard the phrase comes from there.
@ Mr. Frodo.- you have desecrated the name of a beloved character. You sicken me. As for all the rest, PLEASE don’t take HIM as a representative of the LOTR fans.
He said that exact same thing in one of the posts.
Hatred - Check
Poor argument with no supporting evidence - Check
Bad grammar - Check
Aah, yes, another hate-mailer.
RAmen
“Hi. I was just wondering if this is an actual religion or just an atheist sacasm movement? Thanks.”
-monica
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serious answer: The Letter to the Kansas School board was meant to satirize the idea of teaching Intelligent Design in schools as a legitimate scientific theory. The FSM is just as viable a theory as ID.
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Pastafarian answer: Aye, the FSM do be a real religion, with 10 million followers and growing. We be hopin’ more like yerself be touched by His noodly appendage.
RAmen
@Mr Frodo:
My “allotted” time? Who allocates my time? Who tells me what to do with it? It was me, last time I looked.
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And anyway, if what I choose to do with my time is contributing in some small way to annoying you - well, that worked out fine, didn’t it?
“wow…u guys truly are morons…what a productive use of ur allotted time…
-Mr. Frodo”
Talk about a moron. Mr. Frodo just doesn’t get it. But no matter, Mr. Frodo is a typical hit and run poster anyway. No stomach for a real debate. Not enough wit or intelligence for a brave rebuttal. Oh, and oh so hip with the chatroom spelling and grammar (or lack thereof).
“allotted (sic) time”? Is he using that in a biblical sense? As in, we are allotted a certain amount of time here in this life and we had better use it to follow the xtian rules so we can get into xtian heaven when we die?! Hahahahaha!
“What a maroon! What a nin-cow-poop!” (Quoting Bugs Bunny)
“Hi. I was just wondering if this is an actual religion or just an atheist sacasm movement? Thanks.” - Monica
Hi Monica, I guess for me, I’d have to be mostly atheist sarcasm, as I believe very strongly in science and other sensible things that are based on logic and reason.
At the same time, however, a certain part of me thinks well, what if it was ultimately a diety that we might call “God” that created the universe instead of just a spontaneous “horrendous space kablooie”? Well who knows? And maybe it was really a horrendous space kablooie, but in fact lit or started or whatever by a God? Well we can’t really know for sure, but we can keep observing the world around us and trying to learn as much as we can. And for my part, I’m going to keep the FSM theory around just in case we start getting evidence that there was some kind of supreme being that started it all… just because, assuming that evidence does surface, it seems a lot more logical than what Christianity, Islam, or a multitude of other religious are trying to teach you instead, because it supports the principles of science and using our brains to learn instead of just automatically believing what some idiot preacher told us at church.
Hmmmm….this has got me thinking about the funamentlaist Christian snake handlers. Perhaps they are really Pastafarians that are a little confused? I mean, maybe they THOUGHT they were reaching for a bowl of pasta, but instead it was serpent? Perhaps they were thinking about the beer volcanoes a little too hard?
Welcome, Redbeard.
I have always thought that snakes are pasta anyway.
It just makes sense really! Damn I wished I didn’t drink soo much tonite! But that happens sometrimes, as you know. All hail the Noodly one!
RAmen
The serpent truly is a gift from the most enlightened pasta. It’s quite delicious with angel hair, regardless of whichever den of inequity you are fond of frequenting.
RAmen
whilst we devote our selves to our noodly god, you sat and watched lord of the rings mr Frodo, great use of your time, you hairy footed poor excuse for a hobbit!
-Snake handlers are insane.I know a guy who is one and he has been bitten 347 times-yes,everywhere you can think of,and he keeps doing it.I think the snakes are trying to tell him something, personaly. (I’m not sure if he’s acctually christian or not ,come to think of it)
Hi guys,
On a different note. Have many of you lot come across Dr John Sentamu, the Archbishop of York? Among his many recent attempts to push his cause he has taken to describing people who don’t agree with him as Illibral Atheists, the matter that he was using as an excuse for this was that several years ago one city in the UK considered callin Christmas Wintervale instead, the idea was abandonned before it began. He’s also been making rather a big deal of some woman from British Airways who was told she couldn’t wear her cross outside her uniform, as I understand it BA have a ban on jewellery being warn outside of clothing.
Anyway being a resident of the fine city of York and an atheist I find his attitude and his regular attacks upon anyone who doesn’t agree with him rather annoying.
To be fair to this chap he has also banged on a bit about how the English are embarrassed to be English and allow every Jonny Foreigner to hole up in ‘Londonstan’ and spout there dogmatic crap. Good to hear from a Ugandan on the improtance of being English then. What I do disagree with is his stand on claiming England is rooted in Christianity when infact the Magna Carta was first drafted on sheets of dried pasta and enshrined ever serfs inalienable right to Heinz tinned spaghetti. This is a fact because some bloke called Paul of Tottenham Court Rd told me so. I didn’t ned to see the evidence ’cause he told me.
England rooted in Christianity? i’m sure that the ancient celts and druids would heavily disagree on that one. unfortunately, druidic cults don’t speak up for themselves much these days.
Just a very naîve question… Since the jewish are, in old & new testament, the choosen people of “god”, are the italians the choosen people of the FSM?? and so the shepards of pastafarism?? That would be scarry (Materazzi beeing an italian).
HAPPY THANKS GIVING. I am thankful for our Prophet Bobby and his Gift of bringing unto us That Which Created Us ALL (midgets, too!). Wahoo and RAmen!!!!!!!
I’m not embarrassed to be English. We are the least religious country in the Western world, but at the same time the most tolerant and open minded. If you wanted to build a Cathedral to Patafarianism here, you could do, nobody would object. (In fact thats a bloody good idea!)
‘Londinistan’ happened because some Islamic nuts abused the principles of multiculturalism and tolerance and used the idea of respecting all faiths and freedom of speech to preach hatred of rival faiths and denounce freedom of speech. We should have seen it coming - our principles were used against us. We are having to revise our ideals because of them, which is annoying, but you live and learn.
I would rather have the problem of a few urban pockets of ultra-Islam than a wealthy, powerful and well organised christian conservative right wing like you have in the States right now. It’s brilliant to find such creative and witty resistance to it in the shape of FSM, I salute you from accross the pond! Don’t forget all the best Pirates were Brits, we even invented the accent, and holy words such as ‘arrrrrrr’.
Just a very naîve question… Since the jewish are, in old & new testament, the choosen people of “godâ€, are the italians the choosen people of the FSM?? and so the shepards of pastafarism?? That would be scarry (Materazzi beeing an italian).
Thanks for your answer,
Excuse my spelling,
An evolutionist
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I wouldn’t put too much faith in that idea. The Chinese made noodles first. Apparently China was the first place the FSM deamed worthy of creating objects in his likeness, not Italy. Unfortunately that is still a somewhat scary thought.
I left the office a little late today and decided, unusually so, to skip my tradtional end-of-work beer. Last night my post-work-pint turned into a bit of a bender, as I was kidnapped by a Spaniard who kindly introduced me to the basics of his lanuage, which happens to be closely related to many Western European languages. Anyhow, I was waking home and I crossed a rather large, open square, the name of which escapes my rather temperamental memory, but I noticed that the square was gently sloped on all sides towards the middle, to facilitate drainage of course. I rapidly crossed the square and slipped into my local grocery store and picked up a half kilo of pork and beef mince, some fresh tomatoes, some closed cup mushrooms, an onion, some garlic and some spaghetti. I cut the onion in half, slice the tomatoes and half of the mushrooms, and then blend them in the food processor with half a clove of garlic and some paprika. I gently fry the other half of the onion, with the rest of the mushrooms and garlic, all diced. After they have been slightly browned I add the beef and pork mince (beef and pork together add a somewhat more enjoyable flavour I find) and wait until it has browned before adding the sauce. Then turn the heat down and leave to reduce while cooking the pasta, adding salt to both, and a dash of wine or stout ale to the sauce. After ten minutes the pasta is ready and I sit down to enjoy the first spaghetti bolognese I have had in months. Feeling very full, I light my digestive cigarette (apparently a cigarette after dinner promotes a breathing pattern that is condusive to digestion) and begin to contemplate the days events over a cup of mint tea. Then it hits me. Proof of both Intelligent Design and Evolution. Evolution: Spanish and English, as well as French and Italian, share many similarities, in fact you can directly trace the roots of modern French back to Latin, basically a completely different language, and thus we have proof of evolution, thanks to my Spanish acquaintance. As sentient beings, we have evolved over the ages, even if only on a societal level (though there also appears to be proof of physical evolution, we have grown taller and our skulls are becomng narower, but that is by the by, evolution has been proved) to optimise and ameliorate our communicative skills, as well as adding our own personal touches (slang) to the language, thus EVOLVING into the cultures that we now see prevailing in Western Europe. As for intelligent desgin, well some clever guy realised you save a lot of hassle and mess by sloping the sides of your squares and putting a drain in the middle and hey presto! your drainage needs are solved and you don’t need to worry about puddles appearing everywhere. Now THAT’S intelligent design if ever I saw it. Sorry for that. Just felt touched by the Noodly Appendage and had to share.
RAmen
bravo, Fred. didn’t Dawkins once say that he believed in intelligent design of man-made things? indeed, i say that all man-made objects should be intelligently designed, else they become useless. but living things work in ways that inanimate, man-made things do not, and thusly can mutate and evolve, as has been observed.
Sounds like wisdom to me matey, why bother making something useless! And why exist if you can’t constantly strive to be a better person, and improve yourself and your world. Hope you enjoyed the recipe for bolognese too, I guess as Pastafarians we should share our knowledge of the art of creating the divine dish of sustenance, and introduce each other to the new and wonderful ways in which pasta can be served, kind of like the Ten Condiments.
@Parmesanity - you’re right. We are tolerant in the UK. How long will it last for though?
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The British Nationalist Party are gaining ground in traditional working class areas.
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Faith schools are appearing like rashes. They, along with the independent schools, are rejecting the national curriculum. We had race riots in Oldham a few years ago and now there seems to have been a spate of race related murders.
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Bring back the USSR, at least everyone knew who we should be scared of then.
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Seriously, I fear for this country (UK). The atmosphere of hate and mistrust that exists behind closed doors is bloody scary.
I blame the tabloides, there all hate mongering scum and a disturbing percentage of Brits take there word as Gospel. The tabloides pander to the fundamentalists and its time they were held accountable.
May noodly tendrils loosen their hold over us
For Fred and anyone else interested- the words of a Dunesbury comic strip:
Patient: Can it be cured?
Doctor: Depends. Are you a creationist?
Patient: Why?
Doctor: I’m going to give you the choice of choosing your type of treatement. Treat it the way it was before antibiotics, or as the multiple med resistant strain it has since evolved into.
i love that, and i like your thinking. i also have a question for all of you,
Raspberry said Quote:go find a friend u non beleiver. 1, she did not spell believer right, (i don’t think i did either) and do you all think i should leave this site, because i only support this, but don’t follow the religion? I would like honest answers please, as i am not easly offended. (please exuse my spelling)
Skittles, I don’t think that anyone here would desire for a supporter of the one true religion(even one who happens to be a non-believer) to leave. I’m glad that you’re not easily offended, as it shows that not all religious people are so weakminded and insecure in their own beliefs that something like a few other people’s dissent shake their beliefs to the point that they abandon good grammar and rationality(what little they have). RAmen
Freds delicious and amusing antics have reminded me of my own pasta apiffical experience. I was draged by my friends to a small french resturaunt they had been frequenting. I had one of the finest plates of pasta know to man: angle hair pesto. It was quite evident that the noodles were homeade, as the texture was noticably finer. The pesto was made with garden grown basil, and various exotic spices which names eluded me. I knew after consuming the glorious meal, that the amusing thing they said to me before going was true.
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They told me they found God through the food.
RAmen
A science teacher walks into a classroom of thirty YEC students. The teacher says, “I was going to discuss the difference between evolution and creationism, but then I realized I didn’t want to have to explain it THIRTY TIMES.”
@ Mr. Happypants,
i thank you for your kind words. yes it is true i am a religious person, but i am not here to spread my faith. I am here to learn about yours ^_^
Hi Guys,
As a Brit I love my country and I’m very disturbed when I see the creep back of religion into places it has no right to be. I’ve long believed that the only good religion is a dead religion.
As has been mentioned by others we have an increase in the number of faith schools in the UK, these schools have their ciriculums dictiated by the government, but can be altered to suit the faith involved. It should also be pointed out that these schools are not paid for by the faiths in question but by the government from our taxes, so basically we are paying to have children indoctrinated into faith. It has been proven that faith schools are devisive, just look at what happened in Northern Ireland where children where either brought up catholic or protestant. I make no claims of innocence for Britain when it comes to Ireland, though many Americans have much to answer for in their funding of terrorist groups. But those troubles would have been sorted long before if there had been more common ground and understanding. Bringing children up together in mixed schools has been shown to help. The more they see of different people around then, the less they see the difference and the more they see the people.
I suppose I should also mention that in recent surveys about two thirds of the british electrorate opposed faith schools.
Though if Bobby ever managed to make enough money he could actually found a City Academy in Britain based on FSM.
We sit in front of our PCs and talk about what’s wrong with the world, wouldn’t it be nice if we could funnel some of that energy and really change the world.
PS Bobby, some of us are using public access pcs and could do with a sign off function so that we aren’t leaving our account open to abuse. Thanks
unfortunately PM Blair is supporting faith schools, though i can’t understand why. maybe when the criminal Bush is deposed from the white house, Blair will stop acting like the proverbial leech clinging to his arse.
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if only.
The UK used to be a fantastic place and looking at the rise in secularisation it could’ve been potentially great with a rational and scientific explain of society and the world. However, looking at demographic studies by people such as Kaufmann, it seems as if there’l be a re-sacrilisation of this society because religious people tend to have higher birth rates than atheists. Following this logically it means that if the offspring of the religious people continue to follow their parents’ religions (either blindly, by questioning using what they think is rationally or just by being indoctrinated (as stated in Chapter 1 of “The God Delusion” by Richard Dawkins)) then the theistic population will once again rise.
Also, if you look at the growth of NRMs (New Raligous Movements) and NAMs (New Age Movements) then this shows that religion and blind faith are still prominent in society. I would like to further point out that some NRMs can be extremely harmful to the individual e.g. Jim Jones and the People’s Temple and also the Life Foundation - http://www.guardian.co.uk/religion/Story/0,,1951502,00.html .
Something for you to ponder and debate here - the other day i asked my philosophy teacher if she that is was possible that if some people who believed in religion that had been indoctrinated into believing in that particular religion (contemporary example of Islam and a classical example of Catholicism). Her reply was that she believed that she found religious indoctrination (or any kind of indoctrination)acceptable if the indoctrinated person was morally acceptable.
The following day the philosophy class were having a discussion about what God is and whether it is possible for it to exist and the inconsistant triad. Again, I put my hand up to answer. This time I used His Noodliness and Pastafarianism as an example to explain my point about the illogicity of belief in God. My teacher replied “Well, I’ve never heard of the Flying Spaghetti Monster and because it sounds so silly (noodly appendages and noodles in the sky) I doubt that your argument has any validity.” My reply was “Pastafarianism is a legitamate religion and haas over two million followers, how can you not say that it is valid?” Then she blanked me and moved onto another person in the class.
Now, forgive me for thinking this but if we have people teaching “philosophy” (or rather theology - as we are generally being taught our teacher’s watered down version of Catholicism), a subject where a person is meant to explore all avenues and use the strongest arguments to find the truth (as science does), what hope is there for developing our ideas if teachers like this are allowed to preach their religious views and masquerade it as philosophy?
Just a few thoughts there, your replies would be most welcome.
Thanks, Brad.
May His Noodliness have mercy on us all.
I’ve seen what indoctrination can do to people, I’m sure everybody here has. In know way do I think it’s a good thing for any religion to be allowed to indoctrinate people and the state should most definitly not help them.
In the UK Dr Sentamu has again been calling for religion to take a stronger control influence and control of law and politics. He seems to be calling for the start of a theocracy. The last time we had that kind of thing in this country was over 400 years ago and it lead to suffering and executions on a mssive scale. It’s almost ironic that Sentamu chooses to quote William Pitts on the abuse of power. Personally I see Dr Sentamu as the publicity officer for a failing business. The Church of England is loosing followers fast. The only churchs in this country that are growing are the scary evangelical ones, like the Calvery Chapel that my own brother belongs to. Though the growth of evangelical churchs is still less than the growth in atheism.
I recently found myself arguing online with someone who claimed that Dr Sentamu spoke for the majority of this countries population, this particular individual would not answer me when I asked him what gave him the right to claim know what the majority think. Ironically this person was also an avid supporter of the BNP.
sorry, mr. Frodo, shall I go to mass tonight instead of sleeping? mabye I should spend my sundays going to THE SAME christian church watching and listening to the SAME BORING services based on the SAME 2000, no wait, 1600? year old book, giving money to a charity which will help confuse others and pull people away from the important things in life like fighting disease at the risk of some DEAD 2000 year olds, who no longer have the brain to think, to think that we are going against the SAME old gods laws…
PS theres a church round the corner, bloody CoE, with a painting above the door (its a huge one too) showing jebus burning down a completely metallic city (and those who are trying to protect it) and a select few running to the green grass around it… is that the kind of thing you stand for, because that painting is an act of terror, I used to be scared of that thing as a kid. terror is the sword of the christians, and the muslims, and perhaps the jews aswell. So you see, our time may truly be productive, If we can bring people to mock you and ignore you, your methods of trror will be made useless and lame like your president, and people will be able to choose their religion by themselves, no forced religion from parants, or peers, or propoganda, just comedy, and humour and laughter will rule the religions, and philosophy and your way of life. so can you yet see, mr.frodo, you are holding us back, watch some blasphemous comedy and learn some blasphemace science…
Religion has always used fear and terror to get their way.
I did hear that at one point some sections of the early church used teach reincarnation. They stopped when they realised that it didn’t scare people into giving them money. So they stole the ideas of Elysium and Tartarus from the Greek mythology and grossly simplified it to give them Heaven and Hell.
As to the origins of the bible, anyone want to tell me why the earliest versions of the new testament that I’ve ever heard of come from the 2nd century? Why is there no gospel according to Jesus, if he was a rabi and a teacher as was claimed then he should have been able to read and write in several languages.
By the way, yes Hexhunter the Jews have used terror, look at the old testament and you will find many cases of it. Jericho is a prime example. Anyone with a reasonable knowledge of military engineering could tell you that what they actually did was march round the walls making a racket while they had a bunch of people undermining the walls, but telling their enemies that their god is powerful enough to tear down a city walls is much more useful. It keeps your enemies afraid of you.
Quite true, my UK brothers Jon E, H. narans, and brad. The Troubles are more than simply a religious one, or a political one, and education is surely the key. The good news. Tony Blair is on his way out, for whatever reasons. Is this time to rejoice? Maybe the new PM will be the catalyst for positive change, maybe not. Time will tell, as they say. Only His Noodly Master knows for sure.
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For brad, thanks for the gaurdian link. Sad wot religion can do to some people simply looking for meaning in their lives. But I’m afraid the UK has a long and storied history of atrocities on a much grander scale that we are still trying to live down. I won’t go into detail here, but having said that, is one of the reasons I left Old Blighty for The States. Little did I know wot crap politics I would find here. At least we have room to spread out. Finally, have you signed Richard Dawkins petition to rid the UK of secular schools? This new movement of introducing ID into schools is pure bollocks! I don’t have the link readily available, but I would be glad to if you request.
to rid the UK of secular schools?
do you not mean rid the UK of sectarian schools?
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but i do agree with everything these latest posts have said. keep religion in RE lessons, and keep science in science lessons. everyone will be happier (and better-informed) that way.
Haven’t seen the Dawkins petition yet, but I will happily sign it. I’ve already had a go at the organisation behind trying to introduce ID into UK schools, they call themselves Truth In Science, though personally I’ve taken to calling them Lies Instead Of Science. One of their founders is a friend of my brother, who is completely taken in by this nonsense, I had asked them a few questions using a far more anonymous tag than the one I use here. All I got back where the usual lies and claims of having real science to back up their claims. I’ve still to see and science that backs up ID.
One thing that’s been bouncing round my head for a while is the irriducable complexity of the mouse trap. Behe didn’t really think this one out to well. All the parts for the mousetrap were pre-existing and also if you look at a mousetrap doesn’t it remind you of a simplified crossbow, and from there we can say that it’s descended from the bow, through slings and stick throwers to the spear and then the thrown rock to the rock in someones hand and eventually to the fist.
@ Brad - That link about the Life Foundation was scary, particularly because I can see how someone, even myself under a different set of circumstances, could become engangled in such a group. I have apparently had a semi-cult experience by attending 12-step meetings for years after I stopped drinking alcohol (and other mind-altering substances.) I recently saw a website that lists the ways A.A. is a cult, and, although the Fellowship absolutely does good things for people, it really does seem to have a lot in common with bonafide cults. I never really fit in at A.A., because I refused to give up my entire life in the pursuit of only Fellowship-related activities. I had a dream once that I went to an A.A. retreat and they took away my clothes and put me on an island of bleachers in the middle ofa huge gymnasium. In that dream, my worst fears were confirmed, that A.A. was a cult. Well, anyway it helped me to stop living the way I was living. It’s almost 19 years later, and I still am “clean.” I haven’t been to a meeting in years, and I consider myself just a normal person. I feel poorly for Paul because at one time or another in many people’s lives, we desperately need help. When that help turns destructive it is like a double-whammy of sadness and pain.
The scary thing is when you look at modern day cults is that looking at older cults, they become denominalised, such as Methodism (Christianity). In fact all major world religions at some point would, using contemporary classifications, have been classed as a cult. This shows that a few factors may have happened:
a) The cult has watered down it’s beliefs and values e.g. Christianity.
b) The “extreme” values of the cult may have been accepted within society.
c) The cult has gained political power and taken control off the state e.g. Nazism.
Whilst I am saying this, I think I need to may the point that I am not saying that all religions/denominations are negative as some can offer positive things such as tension management. However, looking at the older cult type groups and the power, status and recognition that they have received it is easy to see where some modern day cults could possibly end up in the future.
Aloha,
I quite liked what you said about doing something J, though sadly I don’t have time to rread all theposts on here, I suggest, with Bobby’s permission/endorsement, the first meeting of the Pastafarians, where we can start to make this movement progressive. Bobby might have started it to stop the teaching of unproven scriptures as fact, but I think it would be a very good idea to devote some time and energy solving the problems of today. Part of my job is event management, and I would be more than happy to help plan this event, though of course only if the FSM wishes it. After the nitty and gritty we can always bring out the beer and pasta.
Take care!
RAmen
I agree with all comments about UK faith schools being a backward step, I am totally against them. I am pleased to say my Daughter’s school is nominally C of E (which is a default setting for UK schools, meaning no actual religion, or arguably a weak wishywashy one). What disturbs me a bit is that the pre school curriculum for a 3 year old includes lessons on every tradition from every major religion, they just did a load of stuff on Diwali, which is a Hindu thing (er…or is it Sikh? Indian at any rate). The idea seems to be to include all faiths and traditions in order to be fair; whereas of course the easiest and fairest way to handle religion is to take it out of schools altogether, like the French do.
It also seems to be the case that religion and religious groups are on the rise in the UK, which is another backwards step. I am consoled by something Dawkins wrote which was that if you added all the athiests together they would form a lobby of equal or greater influence than any faith group. Are we motivated enough to be organised, I wonder.
“What disturbs me a bit is that the pre school curriculum for a 3 year old includes lessons on every tradition from every major religion”
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Actually, if done correctly this seems like a very good idea to me. I’ve always been upset that when religion enters schools it always seems to be Christianity, Judaism, or Islam. Where does Buddhism, Hinduism, and Pastafarianism fit into all this? If you learn about many different religions, it will give you a better understanding of different cultures and the world as a whole.
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“Dawkins wrote which was that if you added all the athiests together they would form a lobby of equal or greater influence than any faith group. Are we motivated enough to be organised, I wonder.”
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One thing you should ask yourself is would this lobby be any better than the faith groups. If the goal is to keep theists from forcing their beliefs into places they don’t belong, then I would be all for it. If on the other hand, it starts trying to force Atheism on others, then they’re no better than the faith groups. I would be very critical of them if they tried using political power to outlaw churches, street evangalists, etc.
It would be safest to have an entirely non-partisan lobby, promoting nothing other than the tolerance of all creeds, or lack thereof, a lobby that entitles each and everyone to their own opinions, and one which seeks to ensure that people aren’t pressurised by persons or institutions seeking to force their will on others.
I disagree that the teaching of all faiths in UK schools is of value. Nowhere in the curriculum is it taught that these various religions are all based entirely on *fantasy*. Dawkins makes much of the major religions’ expectation that they should be accorded respect, and society’s willingness to do so, when there is no rational reason why we should. If this is true, why are we colluding with the fundamentalists and allowing our children to be taught to show respect to these delusions? As long as the societal taboo of “thou shalt not mock, or even comment on, another’s delusional faith” remains unbroken, these organisations will continue to have an undue, unwarranted and dangerous level of influence over our lives and politics.
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I say enough. Lobby parliament to either a) remove religious education from the curriculum or b) make RE teachers tell the truth - *all* religions are fairy-tales.
I reckon it should be taught, it seems ridiculous not to teach people about a phenomenon that has endured since before recorded history, but it should be taught objectively as a study of literature and sociolgy, and not forced on people. People should be free to make up their minds, just as they should be free to choose what they study, and faith schools, although potentially a “time bomb waiting to go off” can also, if managed properly, can simply create a proper environment for like minded people to debate and question their beliefs, as well as further their study, unlike mixed faith schools where prejudice and bullying can arise due to someone’s personal choices. IMHO. RAmen
@Davey
Option (a) is acceptable, but option (b) simply is not. While I do not believe any religion is actually right, I also can not deny the possibility that they are completely wrong. In the end making teachers denounce all religions will make you no better than the fundamentalists and will upset some teachers who will fight back an just cause more trouble.
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I will continue to hold the belief that teaching students about the worlds major religions is not a bad thing, if only for gaining perspective of other cultures. It also gives them choices in what they want to believe, which should be a personal choice.
I don’t agree with faith schools. It’s bad for everybody. I mean, the kids at the faith school are isolated from other religions while the kids at the secular schools don’t know how to deal with people that have faith.
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The second reason is that they breed intolerance by two methods. The first is the obvious indocteration into hatred on religious grounds that is rumoured to occur.
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The third is not so obvious, but faith schools hinder religion (this may be a plus point). My mother went to a catholic school run by nuns. Apparently it was terrible, the students were bullied day in day out by the nuns and when she left she had developed a terrible revulsion of religion. When we ask her now if she would be more disappointed in her kids if they were religious or gay she refuses to answer. I thought that this was an isolated incident confined to the UK or at the most the western world until one day when I was speaking to a Hindu friend (and the only reason I know anything about Hinduism) he divulged that his mother had a deep seated hatred of Christians because she went to a convent school on the other side of the world, where she was bullied by nuns on a regular basis.
@ Beastly Rich
Sometimes isolation is better, as it stops children from sacrificing their private beliefs due to peer pressure or violence from others. It only breeds intolerance and hatred if led by the intolerant and hateful and faith schools can of course hinder education or religious progression, but again only when mismanaged, and bullying is in no way part of religion, hence the nuns that perpetrate these acts are quite clearly not educated in religion. Religion is no bad thing, except when placed into the hands of vicious people, but this is true of anything, money, politics, charity, technology, even education. There is no hateful religion, only hateful people.
@Fred,
Sometimes isolation is better, as it stops children from sacrificing their private beliefs due to peer pressure or violence from others at an age when children are much more likely to be assholes to each other.
@Saucywench
I know what you mean about AA, NA etc my brother goes and i am increasingly concerned about the control they excert over him, guilt tripping him every time he misses a meeting and telling him that he needs them or he will start using again and telling him that he cant go on holiday with his family because he wont be able to go to meetings. Whilst the whole time using pseudo-scientific dogma to endorse their claims.
@Parmasanity
your observations about C of E schools may be true of some but at the one i went to i was singled out as the only non chrisrian in the school and ridiculed in front of my peers by the teachers for being decended from monkeys. I was also told that i would go to hell for not beleiving in god. Seems like pretty hard core stuff to tell a small child to me.
@Fred
while i do agree with you that many religous people are well meaning and it only becomes hatefull when being manipulated by hatefull leaders i do not agree that “it is no bad thing”. surely all misinformation (e.g. religion) is a bad thing and can only hinder the progress of society whilst leaving many decent people easily manipulated by their unscrupulous and/or insane leaders.
@Neofelis
Do you really mean all religions are bad, or just the theistic ones? Where exactly do secular religions like Zen Buddhism and some sects of Taoism fit into your views on religion?
@Just Guess
you are right to pull me up on this, there is of course a huge difference between theistic religions and the ones mentioned above. I have often thought that if i had to choose a religion it would be Buddhism as the lifestyle and morality are virtually identical to my own. While such religions are not included in my bad list (my apologies for the earlier generelisation) i see no need for them as i beleive that a proggresive and conscienscous society can function very well without any form of religion. That is not to say that i do not beleive in their right to live their lives this way, because i absolutely do, but it seems to me that any religious overtones, no matter how worthy the ideals behind them are ultimately pointless extras which are still open to manipulation
I never understood the point of faith schools in the first place. Religion is taught–some would say indoctronated–to you by your parents, your temple/church, so on; it’s your own decision after that as to whether you actually believe or not. It’s a personal choice, so I can’t see how it fits into a school situation at all. After all, if you limit yourself to only being around people of your religion, then you’re hardly gonna be prepared for the real world once your schooling is up. The only times religion should be mentioned at ALL in school is in a world history type of class, where they make up an important part of what you learn, or a class where the entire purpose is to discuss topis such as religion. Having an entire school for a certain faith seems to me to be a complete waste of tax money.
Gill,
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It’s pretty simple. Religion does not do well when faced with alternate views and honest debate. By insulating children in religious schools, they are less likely to be swayed because they are less likely to be exposed to alternate views.
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OEJ
One Eyed Jack– Good point. Makes me feel bad for the kids stuck in those schools then; they’re in for a bit of a rude awakening once school lets out, eh?
one of the reasons that faith schools, and faith in general are succesful, i beleive, is that they lay claim to basic human morality i.e. “christian” values and mix these basic ideas in with their own dogmatic convictions. Thus when a child is exposed to other beleif systems as they get older they feel that these new systems cannot offer morality of any sort. Furthermore it becomes difficult for the individual to distinguish between dogma introduced by the prejudice of their religious leaders and human morality which evolved long before religion
@Just Guess:
I’m not suggesting that teachers should be made to “denounce” religion, more that RE should be taught in the same way that we teach Greek mythology - as an outmoded view of the world, of literary value but little more. If a teacher is of sufficient religious conviction to not want to teach in this way, they’re the wrong person to be in the job anyway, since people of such strong religious conviction will, by and large, view conversion as a moral duty.
@ PIXpocketsAA- read the open letter on the main page. May you be enlightened!
@skittles- really nice of you to do that, considering most others try to spread faith on here. The latest being Herr Doctor.
I actually thought rasberry was talking to the letter poster, but in any case please don’t leave.
don’t worry, i have no intint on leaving, untill everyone decides that they don’t want me here. and with people who want to push a seperate religion on you, just feel honored that they are going out of their way to pay attention to your cause! That’s what i do!
I wouldn’t mind you spreading a little of your faith, I’d like to learn more. You guys definatly don’t advertise as much as other religions, so the general public sometimes gets misconnceptions. Probably not a good idea to do a lot though, people might get annoyed. I’ll just do some research when I get the time.
RAmen
@anna
lol that’s because Wiccans belive if you want to join, then join, we don’t care.if not, we don’t care. as long as you have resect, we’re fine with you. i would like to give you my E-Mail, but i don’t want other people to read it and… you know… any way, i would love to find out more on the FSM, can you link me to any sites… other than this one. Not that there is anything wrong with the site, but i would like one that’s less confusing…
This might solve the problem.
. http://www.theonion.com/content/node/40517
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If they all start staying at home, instead of attending school or church, they might disappear altogether.
Skittles–Wikipedea’s how I found my way here in the first place, you could try them. And then there’s always google!
(By the way, like Anna, I’m kinda curious as to the lesser-known details of your religion? I really don’t know as much as I’d like to about it. I’m a bit wary posting my email up here, but if you’d rather not spam the thread up I could…just if you feel like it or you’ve got some spare time, of course. ^^)
@anna
lol that’s because Wiccans belive if you want to join, then join, we don’t care.if not, we don’t care. as long as you have resect, we’re fine with you. i would like to give you my E-Mail, but i don’t want other people to read it and… you know… any way, i would love to find out more on the FSM, can you link me to any sites… other than this one. Not that there is anything wrong with the site, but i would like one that’s less confusing…
Blessed Be End quote/
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Dang I had to quote that whole post.
What more could you possibly learn about the FSM? Besides what is printed in these web pages?
It kind of, sort of, explains itself here really.
There is the book for sale, link somewhere here for it.
You say this site is confusing? But not like the king james bible right?
I’ve got to run, best of luck in your quest…..
RAmen
@Swabbies Bucket
LOL! i’m sorry you had to post the whole thing. i’m just looking for other sites to see what they say. a lot of sites say different things, and I just want to see what they all say before i quote anything. I like to be careful when i quote religion. kagresww@yahoo.com that’s my side e-mail, and instant meesanger. if you have any questions, just ask ^_^
Let me be one of, if not the first to point out that you can not spell. May the noodly lord forgive this semi literate retard.
RAMEN !
-Hal
mr. frodo
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don’t you have better things to do. shouldn’t you get back to saving middle earth
@mr. frodo
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I see you have spent your time much more wisely.
Hobbits are known for their huge feet but not for huge brains. I guess this post is all we can expect.
Mr. Frodo, I find your thoughts and ideas informative and thought provoking. I wish to subscribe to your newsletter. [/sarcasm]
Nah, this is my spare time. I use my ALLOTED time to work and spell and use grammar correctly.
I don’t think you understand. It makes just as much sense as any other religion. You don’t go bashing them, do you? May He forgive you for your ignorance.
RAmen.
“u” does not equate to “you”
“ur” does not equate to “your”
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how about using your alloted time to learn how to spell? as mentioned, this is our spare time.
@Mr. Frodo
> wow…u guys truly are morons…what a productive use of ur allotted time…
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My English teacher told me to practice my writing
going to some crap website and write some bullshit.
So here I am, Jackass! :-)
I don’t think anyone who uses “Mr. Frodo” as their online handle has any right to tell other people they’re not using their time wisely. Go back to your mom’s basement and wish you had a girlfriend, dumbass.
-Mr. Frodo
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What an outstanding reasoned argument you have there, you freak!
Morons who make sense are far superior to morons who don’t
Or did you mean mormons?
That’s just not fair,do we come to your sci-fi conventions and make fun of the way you spend your time:making pointy ears and second rate costumes and learning to speak make-belive dilects.-No,of course not ,what a waste of time that would be.
You guys arrrrr all a bunch of Fags that inclueds you Mr. Frodo
“You guys arrrrr all a bunch of Fags that inclueds you Mr. Frodo”
-NOT mr.Frodo
I notice that you mispelled the word ‘are’and ‘include’, and failed to use proper grammar. You should have written, “You guys are all a bunch of fags. That includes you Mr. Frodo.”
Don’t thank me, just trying to give you some help. :)
@Just Guess
He spelled are that way because he wanted to sound like a pirate.
And Mr.Frodo, i see you use your allotted (sic) time to go and dis other people who waste their allotted (sic) time in a sensible manner.
“wow…u guys truly are morons…what a productive use of ur allotted time…”
well, it seems to me that it is you who are waisting your time. Posting moronic opinions on pages you do not understand…May His Noodlyness enlighten you.
hi, i have heard about the FSM,and am glad to find a site about it. i personally don’t belive in him/her/it? i don’t know, please don’t be mad. but, why can the FSM not exist? i think that it is a wonderful idea, and i support you all! i think that there is a better way of handling critics, but who am i to judge? i really think what you all have here is great, and don’t let anyone tell you otherwise. i have no intint (i can’t spell) on joining, but like i said, i support you all
blessed be
i actually need to correct my-self i ment to saywhy can’t the FSM exist ^_^ sorry much!
blessed be
Thanks Skittles! Don’t suppose you’re Wiccan by any chance? I heard the phrase comes from there.
@ Mr. Frodo.- you have desecrated the name of a beloved character. You sicken me. As for all the rest, PLEASE don’t take HIM as a representative of the LOTR fans.
Worshipping the creator of all that is noodly in the world is never moronic. Remember, He created you.
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- Brother Boyardee
He said that exact same thing in one of the posts.
Hatred - Check
Poor argument with no supporting evidence - Check
Bad grammar - Check
Aah, yes, another hate-mailer.
RAmen
The rate of hate-mail is slowing, we need some more religious nuts to laugh at…
send more please!
@anna yeah i sure am, and no prob, i’ll be visiting this site a lot more
go find a friend u non beleiver.
(btw on a random note: is it illegal for a teacher to call u a slut?(awaiting ur worldy wisdom)
can’t we just post something contriversial? I’m sure we’d get alot more hate mail…although hu wud hate us? (sarcasm)
Hi. I was just wondering if this is an actual religion or just an atheist sacasm movement? Thanks.
@raspberry are you directing that at me?
(yes it is, it is slander and the teacher can be fired)
ooh, and yes, that money stamp would be a very creative idea. I’d buy one.
@rasberry: yes, it’s slander (as skittles said), emotional abuse, and sexual harassment.
@NOT mr. Frodo and Jack Sparrow
My bad, I misinterpreted it as an insult to me fellow Pastafarians.
“Hi. I was just wondering if this is an actual religion or just an atheist sacasm movement? Thanks.”
-monica
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serious answer: The Letter to the Kansas School board was meant to satirize the idea of teaching Intelligent Design in schools as a legitimate scientific theory. The FSM is just as viable a theory as ID.
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Pastafarian answer: Aye, the FSM do be a real religion, with 10 million followers and growing. We be hopin’ more like yerself be touched by His noodly appendage.
RAmen
@Mr Frodo:
My “allotted” time? Who allocates my time? Who tells me what to do with it? It was me, last time I looked.
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And anyway, if what I choose to do with my time is contributing in some small way to annoying you - well, that worked out fine, didn’t it?
@Monica:
To me, it’s a real religion. No, really. Honestly. It is.
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But then again, I do a good sideline in sarcasm, so who’s to say?
“wow…u guys truly are morons…what a productive use of ur allotted time…
-Mr. Frodo”
Talk about a moron. Mr. Frodo just doesn’t get it. But no matter, Mr. Frodo is a typical hit and run poster anyway. No stomach for a real debate. Not enough wit or intelligence for a brave rebuttal. Oh, and oh so hip with the chatroom spelling and grammar (or lack thereof).
“allotted (sic) time”? Is he using that in a biblical sense? As in, we are allotted a certain amount of time here in this life and we had better use it to follow the xtian rules so we can get into xtian heaven when we die?! Hahahahaha!
“What a maroon! What a nin-cow-poop!” (Quoting Bugs Bunny)
If electricity comes from electrons does that mean morality comes from us?
And by the way, exellent use of the great art of defficating on and then molesting the english language.
“Hi. I was just wondering if this is an actual religion or just an atheist sacasm movement? Thanks.” - Monica
Hi Monica, I guess for me, I’d have to be mostly atheist sarcasm, as I believe very strongly in science and other sensible things that are based on logic and reason.
At the same time, however, a certain part of me thinks well, what if it was ultimately a diety that we might call “God” that created the universe instead of just a spontaneous “horrendous space kablooie”? Well who knows? And maybe it was really a horrendous space kablooie, but in fact lit or started or whatever by a God? Well we can’t really know for sure, but we can keep observing the world around us and trying to learn as much as we can. And for my part, I’m going to keep the FSM theory around just in case we start getting evidence that there was some kind of supreme being that started it all… just because, assuming that evidence does surface, it seems a lot more logical than what Christianity, Islam, or a multitude of other religious are trying to teach you instead, because it supports the principles of science and using our brains to learn instead of just automatically believing what some idiot preacher told us at church.
Hmmmm….this has got me thinking about the funamentlaist Christian snake handlers. Perhaps they are really Pastafarians that are a little confused? I mean, maybe they THOUGHT they were reaching for a bowl of pasta, but instead it was serpent? Perhaps they were thinking about the beer volcanoes a little too hard?
And oh yeah - Arrrrrrr!!!!!!
Welcome, Redbeard.
I have always thought that snakes are pasta anyway.
It just makes sense really! Damn I wished I didn’t drink soo much tonite! But that happens sometrimes, as you know. All hail the Noodly one!
RAmen
The serpent truly is a gift from the most enlightened pasta. It’s quite delicious with angel hair, regardless of whichever den of inequity you are fond of frequenting.
RAmen
whilst we devote our selves to our noodly god, you sat and watched lord of the rings mr Frodo, great use of your time, you hairy footed poor excuse for a hobbit!
-Snake handlers are insane.I know a guy who is one and he has been bitten 347 times-yes,everywhere you can think of,and he keeps doing it.I think the snakes are trying to tell him something, personaly. (I’m not sure if he’s acctually christian or not ,come to think of it)
Hi guys,
On a different note. Have many of you lot come across Dr John Sentamu, the Archbishop of York? Among his many recent attempts to push his cause he has taken to describing people who don’t agree with him as Illibral Atheists, the matter that he was using as an excuse for this was that several years ago one city in the UK considered callin Christmas Wintervale instead, the idea was abandonned before it began. He’s also been making rather a big deal of some woman from British Airways who was told she couldn’t wear her cross outside her uniform, as I understand it BA have a ban on jewellery being warn outside of clothing.
Anyway being a resident of the fine city of York and an atheist I find his attitude and his regular attacks upon anyone who doesn’t agree with him rather annoying.
To be fair to this chap he has also banged on a bit about how the English are embarrassed to be English and allow every Jonny Foreigner to hole up in ‘Londonstan’ and spout there dogmatic crap. Good to hear from a Ugandan on the improtance of being English then. What I do disagree with is his stand on claiming England is rooted in Christianity when infact the Magna Carta was first drafted on sheets of dried pasta and enshrined ever serfs inalienable right to Heinz tinned spaghetti. This is a fact because some bloke called Paul of Tottenham Court Rd told me so. I didn’t ned to see the evidence ’cause he told me.
England rooted in Christianity? i’m sure that the ancient celts and druids would heavily disagree on that one. unfortunately, druidic cults don’t speak up for themselves much these days.
Hi,
Just a very naîve question… Since the jewish are, in old & new testament, the choosen people of “god”, are the italians the choosen people of the FSM?? and so the shepards of pastafarism?? That would be scarry (Materazzi beeing an italian).
Thanks for your answer,
Excuse my spelling,
An evolutionist
HAPPY THANKS GIVING. I am thankful for our Prophet Bobby and his Gift of bringing unto us That Which Created Us ALL (midgets, too!). Wahoo and RAmen!!!!!!!
I’m not embarrassed to be English. We are the least religious country in the Western world, but at the same time the most tolerant and open minded. If you wanted to build a Cathedral to Patafarianism here, you could do, nobody would object. (In fact thats a bloody good idea!)
‘Londinistan’ happened because some Islamic nuts abused the principles of multiculturalism and tolerance and used the idea of respecting all faiths and freedom of speech to preach hatred of rival faiths and denounce freedom of speech. We should have seen it coming - our principles were used against us. We are having to revise our ideals because of them, which is annoying, but you live and learn.
I would rather have the problem of a few urban pockets of ultra-Islam than a wealthy, powerful and well organised christian conservative right wing like you have in the States right now. It’s brilliant to find such creative and witty resistance to it in the shape of FSM, I salute you from accross the pond! Don’t forget all the best Pirates were Brits, we even invented the accent, and holy words such as ‘arrrrrrr’.
@Ediacara
Hi,
Just a very naîve question… Since the jewish are, in old & new testament, the choosen people of “godâ€, are the italians the choosen people of the FSM?? and so the shepards of pastafarism?? That would be scarry (Materazzi beeing an italian).
Thanks for your answer,
Excuse my spelling,
An evolutionist
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I wouldn’t put too much faith in that idea. The Chinese made noodles first. Apparently China was the first place the FSM deamed worthy of creating objects in his likeness, not Italy. Unfortunately that is still a somewhat scary thought.
im not a believer but my mate is, and he seems to think that young Mr Frodo is very insulting, please apologise, dumbass.
monkeys are belivers
i did not just post the above message, i was forced off my computer and someone eles wrot it, honest
I left the office a little late today and decided, unusually so, to skip my tradtional end-of-work beer. Last night my post-work-pint turned into a bit of a bender, as I was kidnapped by a Spaniard who kindly introduced me to the basics of his lanuage, which happens to be closely related to many Western European languages. Anyhow, I was waking home and I crossed a rather large, open square, the name of which escapes my rather temperamental memory, but I noticed that the square was gently sloped on all sides towards the middle, to facilitate drainage of course. I rapidly crossed the square and slipped into my local grocery store and picked up a half kilo of pork and beef mince, some fresh tomatoes, some closed cup mushrooms, an onion, some garlic and some spaghetti. I cut the onion in half, slice the tomatoes and half of the mushrooms, and then blend them in the food processor with half a clove of garlic and some paprika. I gently fry the other half of the onion, with the rest of the mushrooms and garlic, all diced. After they have been slightly browned I add the beef and pork mince (beef and pork together add a somewhat more enjoyable flavour I find) and wait until it has browned before adding the sauce. Then turn the heat down and leave to reduce while cooking the pasta, adding salt to both, and a dash of wine or stout ale to the sauce. After ten minutes the pasta is ready and I sit down to enjoy the first spaghetti bolognese I have had in months. Feeling very full, I light my digestive cigarette (apparently a cigarette after dinner promotes a breathing pattern that is condusive to digestion) and begin to contemplate the days events over a cup of mint tea. Then it hits me. Proof of both Intelligent Design and Evolution. Evolution: Spanish and English, as well as French and Italian, share many similarities, in fact you can directly trace the roots of modern French back to Latin, basically a completely different language, and thus we have proof of evolution, thanks to my Spanish acquaintance. As sentient beings, we have evolved over the ages, even if only on a societal level (though there also appears to be proof of physical evolution, we have grown taller and our skulls are becomng narower, but that is by the by, evolution has been proved) to optimise and ameliorate our communicative skills, as well as adding our own personal touches (slang) to the language, thus EVOLVING into the cultures that we now see prevailing in Western Europe. As for intelligent desgin, well some clever guy realised you save a lot of hassle and mess by sloping the sides of your squares and putting a drain in the middle and hey presto! your drainage needs are solved and you don’t need to worry about puddles appearing everywhere. Now THAT’S intelligent design if ever I saw it. Sorry for that. Just felt touched by the Noodly Appendage and had to share.
RAmen
bravo, Fred. didn’t Dawkins once say that he believed in intelligent design of man-made things? indeed, i say that all man-made objects should be intelligently designed, else they become useless. but living things work in ways that inanimate, man-made things do not, and thusly can mutate and evolve, as has been observed.
welcome to the noodley brotehrhood.
Sounds like wisdom to me matey, why bother making something useless! And why exist if you can’t constantly strive to be a better person, and improve yourself and your world. Hope you enjoyed the recipe for bolognese too, I guess as Pastafarians we should share our knowledge of the art of creating the divine dish of sustenance, and introduce each other to the new and wonderful ways in which pasta can be served, kind of like the Ten Condiments.
@Parmesanity - you’re right. We are tolerant in the UK. How long will it last for though?
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The British Nationalist Party are gaining ground in traditional working class areas.
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Faith schools are appearing like rashes. They, along with the independent schools, are rejecting the national curriculum. We had race riots in Oldham a few years ago and now there seems to have been a spate of race related murders.
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Bring back the USSR, at least everyone knew who we should be scared of then.
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Seriously, I fear for this country (UK). The atmosphere of hate and mistrust that exists behind closed doors is bloody scary.
I blame the tabloides, there all hate mongering scum and a disturbing percentage of Brits take there word as Gospel. The tabloides pander to the fundamentalists and its time they were held accountable.
May noodly tendrils loosen their hold over us
Neofelis -mew, mew, purr. Never a truer word spoken!
RAmen
I hate Cyber Drama.Mr.Frodo,
you have my pitty.
RAman
For Fred and anyone else interested- the words of a Dunesbury comic strip:
Patient: Can it be cured?
Doctor: Depends. Are you a creationist?
Patient: Why?
Doctor: I’m going to give you the choice of choosing your type of treatement. Treat it the way it was before antibiotics, or as the multiple med resistant strain it has since evolved into.
Patient: what are the new drugs like?
Doctor: They’re intelligently designed.
^_^
@ anna
i love that, and i like your thinking. i also have a question for all of you,
Raspberry said Quote:go find a friend u non beleiver. 1, she did not spell believer right, (i don’t think i did either) and do you all think i should leave this site, because i only support this, but don’t follow the religion? I would like honest answers please, as i am not easly offended. (please exuse my spelling)
blessed be
@Mr.Frodo- When the hell was someone going to tell me I had a time limit?!?! By his noodly appendage, I’ve wasted so much time!! What was I thinking?
Skittles, I don’t think that anyone here would desire for a supporter of the one true religion(even one who happens to be a non-believer) to leave. I’m glad that you’re not easily offended, as it shows that not all religious people are so weakminded and insecure in their own beliefs that something like a few other people’s dissent shake their beliefs to the point that they abandon good grammar and rationality(what little they have). RAmen
is mr. frodo your real name or are you a Lord of the Rings loser
Freds delicious and amusing antics have reminded me of my own pasta apiffical experience. I was draged by my friends to a small french resturaunt they had been frequenting. I had one of the finest plates of pasta know to man: angle hair pesto. It was quite evident that the noodles were homeade, as the texture was noticably finer. The pesto was made with garden grown basil, and various exotic spices which names eluded me. I knew after consuming the glorious meal, that the amusing thing they said to me before going was true.
.
They told me they found God through the food.
RAmen
A science teacher walks into a classroom of thirty YEC students. The teacher says, “I was going to discuss the difference between evolution and creationism, but then I realized I didn’t want to have to explain it THIRTY TIMES.”
@ Mr. Happypants,
i thank you for your kind words. yes it is true i am a religious person, but i am not here to spread my faith. I am here to learn about yours ^_^
blessed be
Welcome aboard Skittles.
May you be forever touched by His Noodly Appendage!
If you so choose.
RAmen
Hi Guys,
As a Brit I love my country and I’m very disturbed when I see the creep back of religion into places it has no right to be. I’ve long believed that the only good religion is a dead religion.
As has been mentioned by others we have an increase in the number of faith schools in the UK, these schools have their ciriculums dictiated by the government, but can be altered to suit the faith involved. It should also be pointed out that these schools are not paid for by the faiths in question but by the government from our taxes, so basically we are paying to have children indoctrinated into faith. It has been proven that faith schools are devisive, just look at what happened in Northern Ireland where children where either brought up catholic or protestant. I make no claims of innocence for Britain when it comes to Ireland, though many Americans have much to answer for in their funding of terrorist groups. But those troubles would have been sorted long before if there had been more common ground and understanding. Bringing children up together in mixed schools has been shown to help. The more they see of different people around then, the less they see the difference and the more they see the people.
I suppose I should also mention that in recent surveys about two thirds of the british electrorate opposed faith schools.
Though if Bobby ever managed to make enough money he could actually found a City Academy in Britain based on FSM.
We sit in front of our PCs and talk about what’s wrong with the world, wouldn’t it be nice if we could funnel some of that energy and really change the world.
PS Bobby, some of us are using public access pcs and could do with a sign off function so that we aren’t leaving our account open to abuse. Thanks
unfortunately PM Blair is supporting faith schools, though i can’t understand why. maybe when the criminal Bush is deposed from the white house, Blair will stop acting like the proverbial leech clinging to his arse.
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if only.
The UK used to be a fantastic place and looking at the rise in secularisation it could’ve been potentially great with a rational and scientific explain of society and the world. However, looking at demographic studies by people such as Kaufmann, it seems as if there’l be a re-sacrilisation of this society because religious people tend to have higher birth rates than atheists. Following this logically it means that if the offspring of the religious people continue to follow their parents’ religions (either blindly, by questioning using what they think is rationally or just by being indoctrinated (as stated in Chapter 1 of “The God Delusion” by Richard Dawkins)) then the theistic population will once again rise.
Also, if you look at the growth of NRMs (New Raligous Movements) and NAMs (New Age Movements) then this shows that religion and blind faith are still prominent in society. I would like to further point out that some NRMs can be extremely harmful to the individual e.g. Jim Jones and the People’s Temple and also the Life Foundation - http://www.guardian.co.uk/religion/Story/0,,1951502,00.html .
Something for you to ponder and debate here - the other day i asked my philosophy teacher if she that is was possible that if some people who believed in religion that had been indoctrinated into believing in that particular religion (contemporary example of Islam and a classical example of Catholicism). Her reply was that she believed that she found religious indoctrination (or any kind of indoctrination)acceptable if the indoctrinated person was morally acceptable.
The following day the philosophy class were having a discussion about what God is and whether it is possible for it to exist and the inconsistant triad. Again, I put my hand up to answer. This time I used His Noodliness and Pastafarianism as an example to explain my point about the illogicity of belief in God. My teacher replied “Well, I’ve never heard of the Flying Spaghetti Monster and because it sounds so silly (noodly appendages and noodles in the sky) I doubt that your argument has any validity.” My reply was “Pastafarianism is a legitamate religion and haas over two million followers, how can you not say that it is valid?” Then she blanked me and moved onto another person in the class.
Now, forgive me for thinking this but if we have people teaching “philosophy” (or rather theology - as we are generally being taught our teacher’s watered down version of Catholicism), a subject where a person is meant to explore all avenues and use the strongest arguments to find the truth (as science does), what hope is there for developing our ideas if teachers like this are allowed to preach their religious views and masquerade it as philosophy?
Just a few thoughts there, your replies would be most welcome.
Thanks, Brad.
May His Noodliness have mercy on us all.
I’ve seen what indoctrination can do to people, I’m sure everybody here has. In know way do I think it’s a good thing for any religion to be allowed to indoctrinate people and the state should most definitly not help them.
In the UK Dr Sentamu has again been calling for religion to take a stronger control influence and control of law and politics. He seems to be calling for the start of a theocracy. The last time we had that kind of thing in this country was over 400 years ago and it lead to suffering and executions on a mssive scale. It’s almost ironic that Sentamu chooses to quote William Pitts on the abuse of power. Personally I see Dr Sentamu as the publicity officer for a failing business. The Church of England is loosing followers fast. The only churchs in this country that are growing are the scary evangelical ones, like the Calvery Chapel that my own brother belongs to. Though the growth of evangelical churchs is still less than the growth in atheism.
I recently found myself arguing online with someone who claimed that Dr Sentamu spoke for the majority of this countries population, this particular individual would not answer me when I asked him what gave him the right to claim know what the majority think. Ironically this person was also an avid supporter of the BNP.
sorry, mr. Frodo, shall I go to mass tonight instead of sleeping? mabye I should spend my sundays going to THE SAME christian church watching and listening to the SAME BORING services based on the SAME 2000, no wait, 1600? year old book, giving money to a charity which will help confuse others and pull people away from the important things in life like fighting disease at the risk of some DEAD 2000 year olds, who no longer have the brain to think, to think that we are going against the SAME old gods laws…
PS theres a church round the corner, bloody CoE, with a painting above the door (its a huge one too) showing jebus burning down a completely metallic city (and those who are trying to protect it) and a select few running to the green grass around it… is that the kind of thing you stand for, because that painting is an act of terror, I used to be scared of that thing as a kid. terror is the sword of the christians, and the muslims, and perhaps the jews aswell. So you see, our time may truly be productive, If we can bring people to mock you and ignore you, your methods of trror will be made useless and lame like your president, and people will be able to choose their religion by themselves, no forced religion from parants, or peers, or propoganda, just comedy, and humour and laughter will rule the religions, and philosophy and your way of life. so can you yet see, mr.frodo, you are holding us back, watch some blasphemous comedy and learn some blasphemace science…
*walks away swearing under breath*
Religion has always used fear and terror to get their way.
I did hear that at one point some sections of the early church used teach reincarnation. They stopped when they realised that it didn’t scare people into giving them money. So they stole the ideas of Elysium and Tartarus from the Greek mythology and grossly simplified it to give them Heaven and Hell.
As to the origins of the bible, anyone want to tell me why the earliest versions of the new testament that I’ve ever heard of come from the 2nd century? Why is there no gospel according to Jesus, if he was a rabi and a teacher as was claimed then he should have been able to read and write in several languages.
By the way, yes Hexhunter the Jews have used terror, look at the old testament and you will find many cases of it. Jericho is a prime example. Anyone with a reasonable knowledge of military engineering could tell you that what they actually did was march round the walls making a racket while they had a bunch of people undermining the walls, but telling their enemies that their god is powerful enough to tear down a city walls is much more useful. It keeps your enemies afraid of you.
Quite true, my UK brothers Jon E, H. narans, and brad. The Troubles are more than simply a religious one, or a political one, and education is surely the key. The good news. Tony Blair is on his way out, for whatever reasons. Is this time to rejoice? Maybe the new PM will be the catalyst for positive change, maybe not. Time will tell, as they say. Only His Noodly Master knows for sure.
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For brad, thanks for the gaurdian link. Sad wot religion can do to some people simply looking for meaning in their lives. But I’m afraid the UK has a long and storied history of atrocities on a much grander scale that we are still trying to live down. I won’t go into detail here, but having said that, is one of the reasons I left Old Blighty for The States. Little did I know wot crap politics I would find here. At least we have room to spread out. Finally, have you signed Richard Dawkins petition to rid the UK of secular schools? This new movement of introducing ID into schools is pure bollocks! I don’t have the link readily available, but I would be glad to if you request.
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Ramen brothers and cheers mates
to rid the UK of secular schools?
do you not mean rid the UK of sectarian schools?
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but i do agree with everything these latest posts have said. keep religion in RE lessons, and keep science in science lessons. everyone will be happier (and better-informed) that way.
Haven’t seen the Dawkins petition yet, but I will happily sign it. I’ve already had a go at the organisation behind trying to introduce ID into UK schools, they call themselves Truth In Science, though personally I’ve taken to calling them Lies Instead Of Science. One of their founders is a friend of my brother, who is completely taken in by this nonsense, I had asked them a few questions using a far more anonymous tag than the one I use here. All I got back where the usual lies and claims of having real science to back up their claims. I’ve still to see and science that backs up ID.
One thing that’s been bouncing round my head for a while is the irriducable complexity of the mouse trap. Behe didn’t really think this one out to well. All the parts for the mousetrap were pre-existing and also if you look at a mousetrap doesn’t it remind you of a simplified crossbow, and from there we can say that it’s descended from the bow, through slings and stick throwers to the spear and then the thrown rock to the rock in someones hand and eventually to the fist.
@ Brad - That link about the Life Foundation was scary, particularly because I can see how someone, even myself under a different set of circumstances, could become engangled in such a group. I have apparently had a semi-cult experience by attending 12-step meetings for years after I stopped drinking alcohol (and other mind-altering substances.) I recently saw a website that lists the ways A.A. is a cult, and, although the Fellowship absolutely does good things for people, it really does seem to have a lot in common with bonafide cults. I never really fit in at A.A., because I refused to give up my entire life in the pursuit of only Fellowship-related activities. I had a dream once that I went to an A.A. retreat and they took away my clothes and put me on an island of bleachers in the middle ofa huge gymnasium. In that dream, my worst fears were confirmed, that A.A. was a cult. Well, anyway it helped me to stop living the way I was living. It’s almost 19 years later, and I still am “clean.” I haven’t been to a meeting in years, and I consider myself just a normal person. I feel poorly for Paul because at one time or another in many people’s lives, we desperately need help. When that help turns destructive it is like a double-whammy of sadness and pain.
H. narrans
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You are correct, sir, sectarian schools. My bad.
RE: SaucyWench
The scary thing is when you look at modern day cults is that looking at older cults, they become denominalised, such as Methodism (Christianity). In fact all major world religions at some point would, using contemporary classifications, have been classed as a cult. This shows that a few factors may have happened:
a) The cult has watered down it’s beliefs and values e.g. Christianity.
b) The “extreme” values of the cult may have been accepted within society.
c) The cult has gained political power and taken control off the state e.g. Nazism.
Whilst I am saying this, I think I need to may the point that I am not saying that all religions/denominations are negative as some can offer positive things such as tension management. However, looking at the older cult type groups and the power, status and recognition that they have received it is easy to see where some modern day cults could possibly end up in the future.
Also if you want to look at a cult that is just as bad as teaching ID in schools look at this website
www.rael.org
However, if you want something noodly look at
www.hipponoodles.com
RAmen
@Jon E
@Bobby
Aloha,
I quite liked what you said about doing something J, though sadly I don’t have time to rread all theposts on here, I suggest, with Bobby’s permission/endorsement, the first meeting of the Pastafarians, where we can start to make this movement progressive. Bobby might have started it to stop the teaching of unproven scriptures as fact, but I think it would be a very good idea to devote some time and energy solving the problems of today. Part of my job is event management, and I would be more than happy to help plan this event, though of course only if the FSM wishes it. After the nitty and gritty we can always bring out the beer and pasta.
Take care!
RAmen
I agree with all comments about UK faith schools being a backward step, I am totally against them. I am pleased to say my Daughter’s school is nominally C of E (which is a default setting for UK schools, meaning no actual religion, or arguably a weak wishywashy one). What disturbs me a bit is that the pre school curriculum for a 3 year old includes lessons on every tradition from every major religion, they just did a load of stuff on Diwali, which is a Hindu thing (er…or is it Sikh? Indian at any rate). The idea seems to be to include all faiths and traditions in order to be fair; whereas of course the easiest and fairest way to handle religion is to take it out of schools altogether, like the French do.
It also seems to be the case that religion and religious groups are on the rise in the UK, which is another backwards step. I am consoled by something Dawkins wrote which was that if you added all the athiests together they would form a lobby of equal or greater influence than any faith group. Are we motivated enough to be organised, I wonder.
“What disturbs me a bit is that the pre school curriculum for a 3 year old includes lessons on every tradition from every major religion”
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Actually, if done correctly this seems like a very good idea to me. I’ve always been upset that when religion enters schools it always seems to be Christianity, Judaism, or Islam. Where does Buddhism, Hinduism, and Pastafarianism fit into all this? If you learn about many different religions, it will give you a better understanding of different cultures and the world as a whole.
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“Dawkins wrote which was that if you added all the athiests together they would form a lobby of equal or greater influence than any faith group. Are we motivated enough to be organised, I wonder.”
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One thing you should ask yourself is would this lobby be any better than the faith groups. If the goal is to keep theists from forcing their beliefs into places they don’t belong, then I would be all for it. If on the other hand, it starts trying to force Atheism on others, then they’re no better than the faith groups. I would be very critical of them if they tried using political power to outlaw churches, street evangalists, etc.
It would be safest to have an entirely non-partisan lobby, promoting nothing other than the tolerance of all creeds, or lack thereof, a lobby that entitles each and everyone to their own opinions, and one which seeks to ensure that people aren’t pressurised by persons or institutions seeking to force their will on others.
I disagree that the teaching of all faiths in UK schools is of value. Nowhere in the curriculum is it taught that these various religions are all based entirely on *fantasy*. Dawkins makes much of the major religions’ expectation that they should be accorded respect, and society’s willingness to do so, when there is no rational reason why we should. If this is true, why are we colluding with the fundamentalists and allowing our children to be taught to show respect to these delusions? As long as the societal taboo of “thou shalt not mock, or even comment on, another’s delusional faith” remains unbroken, these organisations will continue to have an undue, unwarranted and dangerous level of influence over our lives and politics.
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I say enough. Lobby parliament to either a) remove religious education from the curriculum or b) make RE teachers tell the truth - *all* religions are fairy-tales.
I reckon it should be taught, it seems ridiculous not to teach people about a phenomenon that has endured since before recorded history, but it should be taught objectively as a study of literature and sociolgy, and not forced on people. People should be free to make up their minds, just as they should be free to choose what they study, and faith schools, although potentially a “time bomb waiting to go off” can also, if managed properly, can simply create a proper environment for like minded people to debate and question their beliefs, as well as further their study, unlike mixed faith schools where prejudice and bullying can arise due to someone’s personal choices. IMHO. RAmen
@Davey
Option (a) is acceptable, but option (b) simply is not. While I do not believe any religion is actually right, I also can not deny the possibility that they are completely wrong. In the end making teachers denounce all religions will make you no better than the fundamentalists and will upset some teachers who will fight back an just cause more trouble.
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I will continue to hold the belief that teaching students about the worlds major religions is not a bad thing, if only for gaining perspective of other cultures. It also gives them choices in what they want to believe, which should be a personal choice.
I don’t agree with faith schools. It’s bad for everybody. I mean, the kids at the faith school are isolated from other religions while the kids at the secular schools don’t know how to deal with people that have faith.
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The second reason is that they breed intolerance by two methods. The first is the obvious indocteration into hatred on religious grounds that is rumoured to occur.
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The third is not so obvious, but faith schools hinder religion (this may be a plus point). My mother went to a catholic school run by nuns. Apparently it was terrible, the students were bullied day in day out by the nuns and when she left she had developed a terrible revulsion of religion. When we ask her now if she would be more disappointed in her kids if they were religious or gay she refuses to answer. I thought that this was an isolated incident confined to the UK or at the most the western world until one day when I was speaking to a Hindu friend (and the only reason I know anything about Hinduism) he divulged that his mother had a deep seated hatred of Christians because she went to a convent school on the other side of the world, where she was bullied by nuns on a regular basis.
@ Beastly Rich
Sometimes isolation is better, as it stops children from sacrificing their private beliefs due to peer pressure or violence from others. It only breeds intolerance and hatred if led by the intolerant and hateful and faith schools can of course hinder education or religious progression, but again only when mismanaged, and bullying is in no way part of religion, hence the nuns that perpetrate these acts are quite clearly not educated in religion. Religion is no bad thing, except when placed into the hands of vicious people, but this is true of anything, money, politics, charity, technology, even education. There is no hateful religion, only hateful people.
@Fred,
Sometimes isolation is better, as it stops children from sacrificing their private beliefs due to peer pressure or violence from others at an age when children are much more likely to be assholes to each other.
@Saucywench
I know what you mean about AA, NA etc my brother goes and i am increasingly concerned about the control they excert over him, guilt tripping him every time he misses a meeting and telling him that he needs them or he will start using again and telling him that he cant go on holiday with his family because he wont be able to go to meetings. Whilst the whole time using pseudo-scientific dogma to endorse their claims.
@Parmasanity
your observations about C of E schools may be true of some but at the one i went to i was singled out as the only non chrisrian in the school and ridiculed in front of my peers by the teachers for being decended from monkeys. I was also told that i would go to hell for not beleiving in god. Seems like pretty hard core stuff to tell a small child to me.
@Fred
while i do agree with you that many religous people are well meaning and it only becomes hatefull when being manipulated by hatefull leaders i do not agree that “it is no bad thing”. surely all misinformation (e.g. religion) is a bad thing and can only hinder the progress of society whilst leaving many decent people easily manipulated by their unscrupulous and/or insane leaders.
@ Mad John Kidd
Thank you, i i really do feel honored
blessed be
@Neofelis
Do you really mean all religions are bad, or just the theistic ones? Where exactly do secular religions like Zen Buddhism and some sects of Taoism fit into your views on religion?
@Just Guess
you are right to pull me up on this, there is of course a huge difference between theistic religions and the ones mentioned above. I have often thought that if i had to choose a religion it would be Buddhism as the lifestyle and morality are virtually identical to my own. While such religions are not included in my bad list (my apologies for the earlier generelisation) i see no need for them as i beleive that a proggresive and conscienscous society can function very well without any form of religion. That is not to say that i do not beleive in their right to live their lives this way, because i absolutely do, but it seems to me that any religious overtones, no matter how worthy the ideals behind them are ultimately pointless extras which are still open to manipulation
I never understood the point of faith schools in the first place. Religion is taught–some would say indoctronated–to you by your parents, your temple/church, so on; it’s your own decision after that as to whether you actually believe or not. It’s a personal choice, so I can’t see how it fits into a school situation at all. After all, if you limit yourself to only being around people of your religion, then you’re hardly gonna be prepared for the real world once your schooling is up. The only times religion should be mentioned at ALL in school is in a world history type of class, where they make up an important part of what you learn, or a class where the entire purpose is to discuss topis such as religion. Having an entire school for a certain faith seems to me to be a complete waste of tax money.
Gill,
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It’s pretty simple. Religion does not do well when faced with alternate views and honest debate. By insulating children in religious schools, they are less likely to be swayed because they are less likely to be exposed to alternate views.
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OEJ
One Eyed Jack– Good point. Makes me feel bad for the kids stuck in those schools then; they’re in for a bit of a rude awakening once school lets out, eh?
is this a joke? what are you’re beliefs. i cannot take this serious. who thought of this and when?
one of the reasons that faith schools, and faith in general are succesful, i beleive, is that they lay claim to basic human morality i.e. “christian” values and mix these basic ideas in with their own dogmatic convictions. Thus when a child is exposed to other beleif systems as they get older they feel that these new systems cannot offer morality of any sort. Furthermore it becomes difficult for the individual to distinguish between dogma introduced by the prejudice of their religious leaders and human morality which evolved long before religion
@Just Guess:
I’m not suggesting that teachers should be made to “denounce” religion, more that RE should be taught in the same way that we teach Greek mythology - as an outmoded view of the world, of literary value but little more. If a teacher is of sufficient religious conviction to not want to teach in this way, they’re the wrong person to be in the job anyway, since people of such strong religious conviction will, by and large, view conversion as a moral duty.
@ PIXpocketsAA- read the open letter on the main page. May you be enlightened!
@skittles- really nice of you to do that, considering most others try to spread faith on here. The latest being Herr Doctor.
I actually thought rasberry was talking to the letter poster, but in any case please don’t leave.
@Anna
don’t worry, i have no intint on leaving, untill everyone decides that they don’t want me here. and with people who want to push a seperate religion on you, just feel honored that they are going out of their way to pay attention to your cause! That’s what i do!
blessed be
I wouldn’t mind you spreading a little of your faith, I’d like to learn more. You guys definatly don’t advertise as much as other religions, so the general public sometimes gets misconnceptions. Probably not a good idea to do a lot though, people might get annoyed. I’ll just do some research when I get the time.
RAmen
@anna
lol that’s because Wiccans belive if you want to join, then join, we don’t care.if not, we don’t care. as long as you have resect, we’re fine with you. i would like to give you my E-Mail, but i don’t want other people to read it and… you know… any way, i would love to find out more on the FSM, can you link me to any sites… other than this one. Not that there is anything wrong with the site, but i would like one that’s less confusing…
Blessed Be
This might solve the problem.
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http://www.theonion.com/content/node/40517
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If they all start staying at home, instead of attending school or church, they might disappear altogether.
A cult is a religion with no political power. - Tom Wolfe
I think those are the words some of you were looking for….
Skittles–Wikipedea’s how I found my way here in the first place, you could try them. And then there’s always google!
(By the way, like Anna, I’m kinda curious as to the lesser-known details of your religion? I really don’t know as much as I’d like to about it. I’m a bit wary posting my email up here, but if you’d rather not spam the thread up I could…just if you feel like it or you’ve got some spare time, of course. ^^)
Quote: Skittles Nov 24th, 2006 at 7:05 pm
@anna
lol that’s because Wiccans belive if you want to join, then join, we don’t care.if not, we don’t care. as long as you have resect, we’re fine with you. i would like to give you my E-Mail, but i don’t want other people to read it and… you know… any way, i would love to find out more on the FSM, can you link me to any sites… other than this one. Not that there is anything wrong with the site, but i would like one that’s less confusing…
Blessed Be End quote/
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Dang I had to quote that whole post.
What more could you possibly learn about the FSM? Besides what is printed in these web pages?
It kind of, sort of, explains itself here really.
There is the book for sale, link somewhere here for it.
You say this site is confusing? But not like the king james bible right?
I’ve got to run, best of luck in your quest…..
RAmen
@Swabbies Bucket
LOL! i’m sorry you had to post the whole thing. i’m just looking for other sites to see what they say. a lot of sites say different things, and I just want to see what they all say before i quote anything. I like to be careful when i quote religion.
kagresww@yahoo.com that’s my side e-mail, and instant meesanger. if you have any questions, just ask ^_^
blessed be