Problem, Spaghetti and pasta didn’t exist till the 500 - 900 AD. Google it knucklehead. Funny, yet it still does not address the problem of irreducible complexity. Too bad :( He missed the whole point.
-LeapofFaith
Problem, Spaghetti and pasta didn’t exist till the 500 - 900 AD. Google it knucklehead. Funny, yet it still does not address the problem of irreducible complexity. Too bad :( He missed the whole point.
-LeapofFaith
That’s just what they want you to think.
There is nothing such as irreducible complexity. What is irreducible is your ignorance.
Anyway, pasta does exist. Your God doesn’t. Too bad. :(
By the way, you missed the whole point.
RAmen
Leap of Faith is wrong, wrong, wrong. I think Jingles, OEJ or Davey has the link to the VERY old noodles..
Well, that was easy to re-find:
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/4335160.stm
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‘Google it knucklehead.’ Just did, arse-for-brains.
While it may be true that pasta didn’t exist until 500-900 A.D. the FSM is not actually made of pasta, He just resembles it, or rather pasta resembles Him.
Oh ye of little faith, fear not for the almighty FSM shall not smite you for your ignorance.
As this site mentions many times, the FSM created pasta in his image, not the other way around.
And just to agree with Aldous here, irreducible complexity really is a myth. every smokescreen the ID advocates have put up has been swept away as we increase our understanding of evolutionary process. the human eye? the bombardier beetle? the bacterial flagelluem? read some up-to-date journals, “knucklehead”.
-Dr. Kilgore: What?????No smiting?Why the sauce not?
Leapoffaith is a bit vague, don’t you think. You are referring to the earliest known evidence. Who is to say that there is not an older plate of fossilized noodles just waiting to be discovered? And simply mentioning the problem of irreducible complexity is hardly a refutation…sheesh.
Oh, and ‘the problem of irreducible complexity’ is that even the guy who coined the phrase ‘irreducible complexity’, Michael J. Behe, has been forced to backtrack, so thoroughly has the idea been debunked:
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‘Behe has confessed to “sloppy prose†and said he hadn’t meant to imply that irreducibly complex systems “by definition†cannot evolve gradually. “I quite agree that my argument against Darwinism does not add up to a logical proof,†he says’
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The quote is from this link, which has appeared on this site many times, now:
http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/articles/050530fa_fact
When writing dates, the “AD” comes before the year, not after, as you’ve written. (AD 900, for example, is correct.) Therefore, everything you’ve written is wrong. Q.E.D.
@ J
Nice one about Behe.
I agree with Aldous:
There is no such thing as irreducible complexity, just irreducible fundamentalist ignorance. Imagine someone so dumb that they have to Google-search ’spaghetti’ to learn that it wasn’t always around.
Oh wait a second, we don’t have to imagine that someone, we have -LeapofFaith right before our eyes.
No -LeapofFaith is required at all!
J: Thanks for the link. As always you are a font of knowledge.
(@FCC - Ta, but nope: Jingles, OEJ, Davey, nikkiee and the rest of you keep firing the knowledge off. It just ricochets off me and ends up with other people)
FCC.
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‘Imagine someone so dumb that they have to Google-search ’spaghetti’ to learn that it wasn’t always around.’
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Cough, mumble - of course, *we* know better than Google on this, all praise the FSM, RAmen…
> Spaghetti and pasta didn’t exist till the 500 - 900 AD.
> -LeapofFaith
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Are you suggesting the world is only 1500 years old?
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- Brother Boyardee
this guy actually buys into the irreducible complexity bullshit! it may sound locigal (notice how i said sound), but it just another bullshit excuse to say “oh my god, this has to prove evolution wrong’. Behe is just 1 out 10 non-scientists to actually waste their time on intelligent design. just like every other ID non-scientist, he is really a strong christian trying to use the weapon of science to destroy science. all his other non-scientists work at a right-wing non-science organization with a completely unscientific and unoriginal name. (i think you guys know it)
Here,not quite as funny as ‘irreducible complexity’ but I’ve got a turkey in the oven so I thought I’d leave some for you guys http://www.netscape.com/viewstory/2006/11/15/just-a-bit-of-thanksgiving-humor/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cyber-kitchen.com%2Fholidays%2Fthanksgiving%2Fhumor.htm&frame=true
P.S.,don’t puke it up on the carpet.
You Moron everyone knows that Noodles where around for at least 4000years
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“They discovered 4,000-year-old long, boiled strands of noodles protected by an upside-down bowl, embedded in a fine, brownish-yellow clay on a terrace of the Yellow River at Lajia, north-western China. ”
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Taken from this website http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200510/s1481004.htm
and another site
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/4335160.stm (pictures of our great noodlie heratage)
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You fucking Christians and you time scale, first you think the world is only 6000 years old and now you have no idea how long noodles have been around for. It is also very likely that noodles are much older than those found.
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As you can see it is very likely that these noodles pre-date your monotheism (monotheism being the one true God). So who is the “knucklehead†Now?
for two thousand years we did not see the moons of jupiter, yet there they were the whole time.
-galileo, bertolt brecht
yeah, noodles were invented thousands of years ago, and pirates worshiped them. yar
He created noodles in his divine image, not the other way around which is proven by FSM being around since the dawn of time, unlike noodles. The ancient Chinese noodles (which are only 2000 years old by the way, FSM fiddled the results as always to fit his divine plan) are proof of this.
pirates were carnivorous.
they didnt eat pasta
so they worshipped it
yes,
yar, indeed.
@-LeapofFaith
‘Too bad :( He missed the whole point.’
hahaha……….priceless1
Scientologists, take heart. Where you have been told that Xenu was evil, and that Thetans are a problem, hearken! We believe that L. Ron saw a lot of really true stuff. But he was just a little bit wrong about Xenu. Xenu is our leader. And Thetans are here to help, not to hurt.
Thetans are your best friends. Establishing a relationship with your Thetans is our main goal. It is because we believe that the Thetans are purposeful and positive. L. Ron got that part all wrong.
Xenu loves us. Xenu wants the best for us all. L. Ron identified Xenu as a master leader, and all Xenuists are forever indebted to L. Ron for that, but the Thetans are not our enemies, no matter what they tell you. Embrace your Thetans. Actually, the more Thetans you have, the better off you will be once you learn to co-exist with them.
Regarding Tom Cruisey
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I spoke to soon. Throw shit at one thread, I guess it spatters…
The worldest oldest noodle is actually older than the earth itself. We know the carbon dating is wrong because the Flying Spaghetti Monster changed the results to give the illusion that the noodle is only 5000 years old (which is about 1000 years younger than earth).
Tom - sorry mate I got it wrong. I always thought that Thetan was the planet that was ruled by Xena, Warrior Princess. Whose brother Xeno had a very fast pet tortoise that ate rabbits and practiced archery.
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Ho hum
Pasta was sent to earth by the FSM after he decided we need to have a tasty dinner that resembles Him! That obviously, according to you, happened around 500-900AD. If you dont believe it, prove it wrong :D. remember, any evidence you have can be changed at will by the FSM.
Xena rocks! Xenu is obviously her little brother who felt he had to prove something to mom and dad, so he went and started his own religion! Bet that showed her.^_^
Hell Anna, now I’m stuck trying to remember Xena’s friend’s name - not Hercules, the strawberry blond. Looks like a wiki break.
Gabrielle
Xena, Gabrielle, and Hercules remind me of a winter I took off, getting stoned and watching daytime TV. I also ate a lot of ramen that winter. Ah, those were the days! Even in my spiritually ignorant state, the FSM was drawing me towards him with his noodly appendages and flimsy morals.
RAmen!
you notice how quick J was able to stomp on leapoffaiths arguement….wait..wait..you hear that?….its leapoffaiths confidence squishing..aaaa what a sweet sound
I once had a boyfriend who thought Gabrielle was a really hot lesbian. We had difficulty watching that show, yet we seemed to watch it more often that you’d think.
Guys if Tom Cruisey comes back direct him to the ” They’re people too” thread he maybe more willing to join if he reads that.
can someone tell me if mad john kidd is from birmingham uk……prefurably him
If Tom Cruisey comes back, I’d be happy to direct him into traffic.
Xena was alright, but a bit too pushy. Gabrielle had that innocent, unspoiled sort of thing going for her, but I’m all about the bad girl. Give me Calisto.
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OEJ
OEJ I liked Gabrielle, but she had nothing on Willow from Buffy or Fred from Angel (or Susie Dent from Countdown _UK only)
For further information regarding “Irreducible Complexity”, as you so ignorantly phrase it, I refer you to Richard Dawkins “Climbing Mount Improbable”
Here, I’ll even give you a useful link to the Amazon page so you can order it.
http://www.amazon.com/Climbing-Mount-Improbable-Richard-Dawkins/dp/0393316823
Please, learn about the subject that you are trying to debunk, otherwise it merely serves as a testament to your own ignorance.
RAmen
-Ink-
I’m with you on Fred there. She was a little tramp though. One minute she’s all over Gunn. Then it’s Wesley. Then she morphs into that tough Goddess-chick. Smite me baby.
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OEJ
Wesley was her first love tho’ - English with chicken legs. My reality, please don’t spoil it with such things as sense. Gun was a nice guy but far to muscular for her. I really need to get out more.
See the video of Dawkins answering questions at Lynchburg posted at
http://richarddawkins.net/home
It’s great! (Of course, the FSM gets in.)
Just to confuse the pscho scientologist spammers
@leapoffaith- Yes, this may be true, but the whole basis of Christianity today was compiled by the Roman Emperor Constantine- rather arbitrarily I might add- centuries after the beginning of time according to the Bible, until then none of the earlier versions of this text were as complete, due to Constantine’s incorporation of pagan and otherwise gentile rituals and stories. And besides, there is no such thing as irreducible complexity. The FSM is indeed complex, but he is comprised of things that can function on their without being combined.
Listen to Julia Sweeney on ID:
http://www.juliasweeney.com/letting_go_mini/audio4.html
@ Thank God in an Atheist…
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No, I’m a northern lad from Salford, Manchester, mate.
This is a joke. I once thought I knew just how foolish people could be… but no, there is no end to it. Anyone who believes this must be mentally ill. There is no logic in this at all. Such ignorance will cause this world to go mad.
Fools…
Sage, that’s not a very nice thing to say about religious people. You’re right though, ignorance HAS caused the world to go mad for 2000 years.
May His Noodly Appendage lead us to eternal sanity.
Sage I am wondering do you think the same thing about Christianity? or the belief in any type of Supreme natural beings?
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If you do then fair enough, if not then where is your logic?
‘Such ignorance will cause this world to go mad.’
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Oooh, the power, the *power*!
-Anna,Is that why Xena ended up killing the Gods by the end of the show?
Freinds, let me let you in on a little secret:
There is no such thing as sanity. Never has been.
RAmen
Has anyone noticed that the spaghetti was found in the region of the Great Wall…
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It is a sign! His Noodliness put it there so someone would find it, therefore giving more proof to the existence of Him and all he stands for (everything that is good) and therefore He could touch more with His Noodly Appendage!!!!!!!!!!!
Whoops, I forgot to add that it was found in the region of the Great Wall, one of the many testimonies to Him! (Consult the Gospel if you are confused)
leapoffaith and all others who subscribe to ‘irreducible complexity’ are totally ignorant of the processes of evolution, and the nature of the fossil record, and even current biology of the planet. Take, for example, eyes. A firm favourite of such people, the argument runs that there is no such thing as 1/2 an eye… WRONG! Eyes range from primitive light/dark detectors as used by some insects and microscopic organisms, through to our eyes with rods and cones for detecting and interpreting colour. As for the fossil record, eyes tend to be soft material and decompose rapidly, leaving no trace, so impossible to tell exactly how advanced they were or what their capability may have been.
By the way.. ‘Bones’ on TV last night had an episode devoted to Pirates… Yar!
RAmen
@J:
“Just did, arse-for-brains”
Your comment containing this quote was, let us say, a bit less like an essay than your usual posts but just as effective.
Seems like theres nothing left to say, since the poor boy’s soul has been extracted through his nose by the FSM’s noodly appendage.
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Praise the pasta, and pass the Parmesan.
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May the sauce be with you.
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RAmen.
@ Pasta Parmesan: One of the arguments of ID founder Behe is that the evolutionists’ “give me the cell and i’ll give you the eye” notion is unacceptable because a photosensitive cell is 90% of the way to an eye in itself. what he gets at is that Cells are themselves far too complex to have arisen by darwinian natural selection.
of course, this is also bullshit. irreducable complexity can be attained through darwinian evolution through the development of new cellular components and the loss of older/less-efficient components. but some people will cling to their outdated assertions no matter what.
It wouldn’t make sense to evolve your opinion while speaking against evolution.
The novelist Iain Banks wrote a letter to New Scientist pointing out how ironic it was that the whole ID thing was basically Creationism that had evolved camouflage. :-)
XD
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Excellent point. RAmen, brother.
aa thank you mad kidd john, my mistake i thought i knew you
No problem, my fellow Pastafarian.
no problem douche bag
I have a couple of questions. First, if I convert to Pastafarianism, do I have to give up pasta? And also, if everyone in the world quit eating noodles for a whole week, will the FSM then reveal himself and return to lead us?
Oh look, another shit-for-brains impersonator.
My imposter is back. How complimentary.
I was hoping the followers of His Holy Dangling Appendage would be more open to those on the path of sincere search for the truth. I could also go for the discovery channel but I find them a bit too complacent to actually respect. It’s like too hard science for my medium sized appendage.
What I’m really getting at is that I don’t a religion that doesn’t require some kind of sacrifice is ever going to cut the cheese, so to speak.
see. do I have to spell it out for you?
AW DAM I wish my FUCKTARD kid sisterd hurry up and finish lettin the dog fuck her
its my turn
why does everybody forget that the FSM doesnt care if they believe in Him? submit all the “proof” you want that He doesn’t exist. He just laughs at it because He is drunk. He doesnt really WANT you to believe in Him, because He doesn’t want you to drink all His grog.
I thought I remembered reading this:
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2005/10/1012_051012_chinese_noodles.html
4,000 year old noodles, knucklehead.
Does it count that I used Ask.com and didn’t Google it?
hey hey mister ur just jelous that our faith makes a heck of a lot more since then urs… man discovered pasta then but hey the FSM choose for us to chose it then (bloody ID/Aethiests)
I am posting this in various threads, because I wan’t all your opinions on this article:
I’m in the bible belt, but I have a harder time provoking fundies than you might think (I try my ass off though).
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Heres a good example though: An opinion piece on evolution was published in my school newspaper today. The author was attempting to prove that you can believe in evolution and “creationism†at the same time (an opinion I generally agree with, well religion, but not creationism), yet the author didn’t seem to understand the premises of evolution or creationism.
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She included such chestnuts as refering to “Darwins theory of the descent of man†(a book, but not in any way the actual theory), and “I think it is possible that God was simply practicing when he created the dinosaursâ€. On top of it all she claimed to be a scientist (in an intro Bio Class :) )
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I have been flaming her idiocy on the newspapers website all day, yet no one in my university of 22,000 people thought that it was important enough to speak up!
Please read this article and post a comment:
http://www.theeastcarolinian.com/media/storage/paper915/news/2006/11/16/Opinion/Correction.Evolution-2462676.shtm
The link says “link not found” Nick
Try this:
http://www.theeastcarolinian.com/media/storage/paper915/news/2006/11/16/Opinion/Correction.Evolution-2462676-page2.shtml?norewrite200611162347&sourcedomain=www.theeastcarolinian.com
Actually, what you are describing is the concept known as ‘theistic evolution’ which quite effectively defines the process of evolution as being generated by a god. Many evolutionists who also happen to believe in Christianity have no problem with this concept. “Finding Darwin’s God” by Kenneth Miller, a devout Catholic, is worth a read.
I have no problem with theistic evolution, (read my replies, I’m pastafarian), but that article mis-represents both evolution and creationism. She is defending creationism, yet doesn’t realize that most are YEC’s, who believe nothing of the sort that she is putting forth.
@Nick the Infidel
Because ID/creationism has no scientific data for support, they often use political coercion and twist the truth to fit their beliefs. Cherry-picking and quote-minig are amoung other common tacts. Are you familiar with
http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/list.html
I have looked all around talk origins, they rule! The issue I have is that the author supports creationism, when she doesn’t even understand the basic tenets that creationsists propose. Worsely (is that a word?) She misrepresents basic tenets of biology.
She hasn’t been coerced by AIG or the Discovery Institute, she made all this up on her own.
Nick, I’ll read the article later as I’m a bit short on time. I did read the first few of your replies though and look forward to reading rest later as well. Well done!!
RAmen
@ Nick
I only caught the second page, so I had to go back and read the first. She could have been more specific on what a “normal biology class” was; that’s a bit vague. It gave no indication as to what level.
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I see your point, she does confuse YEC with Christianity, with scientists who believe in Christianity. She claims to be a scientist but is still in school. Normally, a practicing scientist would have graduated. Also “a scientist” is a bit vague. I would not consider a partical physicist to be any sort of expert on evolutionary biology. And I’m not suggesting that she is a physicist.
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Her God created a perfect world, yet the dinosaurs could have been a failed experiment. This negates the definition of perfect. Her knowledge of the fossil record is all but nonexistent. Evolution does not require belief in order to occur, creationism does.
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While evolution theory has progressed beyond Darwin’s orginal Theory of Natural Selection because of thing like genetics and a much larger fossil record the two are not independent from one another. In the end, she straddles the fence having failed to make a descent argument for or against either side. Evolution and creationism are mutually exclusive, but Christianity does not necessarily prelude evolution.
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Hope this has been of some help.
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RAmen
Thanks Mad John.
I’m pretty sure I know what biology class she is in, and its not the one for majors. Please copy your thoughts to that website so that my university can have some civil discourse for once.
I’m a hairs length away from recieving my masters in Biology, yet I don’t claim to be a scientist. I’ll wait till someone pays me the big bucks (Ha HA), before I adopt that title. Til then I’m just another “science bitch”.
On the topic of Fundie misrepresentation of evolution, have you noticed that they by and large are social Darwinists? The old “we are rich because we are superior”, and “the poor are poor because they are inferior/subhuman” line.
Fairly similar to most of those in power from Ancient Egypt through to early 20th Century European royalty who claimed they ruled by divine right. Free trade, and laissez-faire Ayn Rand economics are built on “survival of the fittest (read: greediest)”.
RAmen
Or the exact mentality that was the justification behind colonialism from around 1400 through the 1900’s. There’s no reason to include Darwin’s name in this crap, it was being justified long before Darwin postulated his totally unrelated theorem.
@ Nick…
What area does your thesis concern? If I may ask. I’m a field archaeologist by trade but my first degree was in field biology. I still like to keep up on curent issues in evolution theory.
@Pasta Parmesan
“The old “we are rich because we are superiorâ€, and “the poor are poor because they are inferior/subhumanâ€
Sounds a bit like “we are special and better because we believe in a supernatural being” and “they are inferior because they don’t” doesn’t it?
RAmen
Very true, social Darwinism has been flaunted by the likes of Adolf Hitler as well as Ted Haggard, yet they all seem to forget that the evolution of humans has lead to the Golden Rule, as well.
Anyone else get the feeling that there is no-one has been steering this galleon for the past 24hrs?
Lets see if this one works….
pasta farieism? wtf is that?
The Flying Spaghetti Monster is the funniest poke at fanatical Christianity that I have ever seen. It is completely hilarious that so many get upset and infuriated at something that is not in any way serious. The Flying Spaghetti Monster parody of Creationism is ingenius. And if the fanatical Christians don’t like it, well….screw them.
The fanatical Christians should bow to their sensei because the Flying Spaghetti Monster is the funniest, most ingenius parody of Creationism I’ve ever seen. Anyone who is deeply offended by the FSM should get over themselves and learn how to take a joke. If they’re still offended….f*ck ‘em.
Yes, spaghetti is a recent invention, but it was made by man in the image of the FSM as a tribute to the great and undying entity that has saved so many souls. Spaghetti feeds the spirit and the body of the worshipper making him just a better person, adding bolognase sauce to symbolize the past sacrifices of FSM and olive oil to anoint the one true god is the road to true salvation. FSM is not a poke at christianity it is the one true salvation, try it or one of its disciples (farfelle, sapghettini, rotini, etc.) and be amazed at the power released within you by accepting the FSM into your body and mind.
I applaud this new religion. We haven’t had a decent new religion since the Mormans. I don’t count Scientology as a religion, even though they do.
I felt a need to respond to all of those that say the Pasta wasn’t created until 500 ad or so. This does not pre-empt he existance of the noodleful hevens.
Remember the Earth WAS FLAT until 1492. Then ONE MAN declared it was round. People generally came around and the world became round.
For the simple minded, it became round BY AGREEMENT. It WAS flat because everybody said it was, now it round BEACUSE we say so.
By my agreement, and others, the FSM becomes more real every day.
“By my agreement, and others, the FSM becomes more real every day.”
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You mean accepted as real.
RAmen
Pasta, in all it’s perfectness, was not realized until that time. It is quite a complex food that the FSM would not want us to know the secrets of until we were ready to take it.
Quite right underbed dweller.
Come over to my side…….. I’ve got the dressing you want……..
dressing?
Or lack of? Hell it don’t matter, just come on over!!!
Where are you? Are you in the clouds?
The clouds of his own mind?
I try to be a pious Pastafarian. Noodle knows I do. But sometimes I see statements like this and my faith is truly sauced. (Not one for dogma, I don’t say hail-spaghettis as I was raised to do; though I do still genuflect with the sign of the crossed knife and fork.)
My point is this: When I’m in public and I see somebody disrespect the FSM and I know that my bleiefs can help that person, is it better to just be humble as the Noodle taught? Or, should I spread the sauce and approach the person?
“Remember the Earth WAS FLAT until 1492. Then ONE MAN declared it was round.”
Huh? It was comon knowledge the world was round in 1492. Columbus would neevr have been sponsored otherwise. It’s been known by ass-clown scientists and horizon-watching sea captains for 2000 years, as, it’s really obvious. Sounds like you should question your public education (if that is, indeed, where you heard this belief).
Actually, it’s an oblate spheroid (slightly larger around the equator — not unlike many adult males).
It took me over a year to tell my family I had converted to CotFSM. Although it has been difficult for my parents (mum’s an Irish-Catholic, Dad’s a Muslim and my sister was born Jewish), imagine my surprise when I visited this weekend and my mum had cooked a whole pot of spaghetti! Granted, it was vegi with no meatballs, but she IS trying to understand! Pasta work in mysterious ways. FSM noodles those who noodle themselves. Can I get a RAmen?
And humans have only been around since the… Stone Age, I don’t know anyhow. But if god looks like us than he couldn’t have been around to make the Earth. Google it knuckle-f***.
RAmen(to both of us well-known celebrity)
A Well-known Celebrity,
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RAmen.
@OEJ. Come on. Next thing you’ll be telling us is that the earth revolves around the sun!
Alchemist,
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Well, that’s just silly. The sun and the earth revolve around a common “barycenter” or center of mass of the two bodies. Earth revolving around the sun… that’s a good one! ;-)
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OEJ
@A Well-known Celebrity
Sounds like you have a great family!
RAmen
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I thought the sun and the earth revolved around our great Noodley One?
RAmen
leapofaith - looks like you’re the one takin’ that leap based on nothing but faith.
I thought the FSM made the world look like it was older than it actually is! The world could of even been made in 500-900 AD!
Jack Sparrow,-drinking and smoking can do the same thing,maybe the FSM will take pity and invest in a good moisturizer.
Problem, Spaghetti and pasta didn’t exist till the 500 - 900 AD. Google it knucklehead.
Wow! Google found it therefore it must be true! Now that is what I call a leap of faith!
Pasta existed before then, but was not known to man. Flying Spaghetti monster came to earth in the form of pasta much later, that he might give pasta as his gift to man.
Hey guys, just like to let you all know, if you don’t already, J has got The Letter off.
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Should be interesting to see the response we get.
Whoas. You are STUPID, ren’t you? Of cours, the the Flying Spaghetti Monster WENT BACK IN TIME!
Now, that just breaks your whole theory, doesn’t it?
As far as I am aware “irreducible complexity” poses a greater problem for ID than evolutionary theory. It is the sad little crutch used to prop up ID arguments that is constantly being kicked over. First it was the hand, then the eye and recently the bacterial flagellum. In all cases the argument for irreducible complexity has been debunked. In fact the “irreducible complexity” of the bacterial flagellum was disproved 8 years ago and it is still being dragged out as the flagship argument for ID.
Well good thing we have ourselves a 1530 year old man on the forum to clear things up for us. Time is like clam sauce for the FSM artard.
First some self-evident truths:
(1) The theory of evolution accounts for the diversity of life, not its origin. As evidence is gathered to support the theory it will become a ‘law’. If the evidence does not support the theory, then another theory will be developed which includes the new evidence. This is the scientific method. However, there are rules about evidence - it must be incontrovertible and not just an argument or opinion.
(2) Matters of faith or dogma cannot be countered with any argument that draws on rationality ie requiring logic, consistency or the production of evidence. The whole point of faith is that one believes in the assertion (or postulate) implicitly and no supporting evidence is required. The whole point of rational argument is that a chain of resoning is presente with supporting evidence provided to prove each step in the reasoning.
(3) Intelligent Design is not a theory and has no chain of reasoning. Evidence is provided, but most evidence can be explained by other theories such as the theory of evolution. Where the theory of evolution is found to be lacking, such as in accounting for the evolution of the bombardier beetle, then the scientific method allows for more evidence to be found to support the theory, or the theory to be adapted or the theory to be discarded and replaced with something better. Intelligent Design, on the other hand, insists first the theory is inviolate and then selectively presents evidence to support it. Any other interpretation of the facts is decried because it does not support the theory. This is the opposite of science and does not conform to the scientific method and so cannot be described as a scientific theory.
(4) The account of the flying spaghetti monster and the related creation myth is no less valid then any other creation myth and deserves the respect of the theological community. Correspondingly, any mythology, concerning the creation or otherwise, is not science but is storytelling and must be respected as any other work of a creative mind.
Given these facts, one is forced to certain conclusions and questions to carry forward to the next step in the debate.
(1) Intelligent Design and Pastafarianism are not scientific theories and have no place in a classroom dedicated to rationality, let alone science.
(2) The theory of evolution is a scientific theory and the scientific method insists it be challenged, but on a scientific basis.
(3) The flying spaghetti monster myth is no less credible and possibly more entertaining than any other but, like any other myth (concerning the creation or otherwise), should be judged on its entertainment value alone. Veracity is simply not an issue.
@Peg Leg Dave
“In fact the “irreducible complexity†of the bacterial flagellum was disproved 8 years ago and it is still being dragged out as the flagship argument for ID.”
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Isn’t it wonderful when ID keeps us laughing as it just keeps digging its own grave.
“Isn’t it wonderful when ID keeps us laughing as it just keeps digging its own grave.”
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No, ID’s grave was dug by science long ago. ID is currently a zombie which hasn’t figured out it’s supposed to be dead.
i believe in a recent issue of National Geographic, they had a whole article about evolution. in it, they showed how the evolution of the eye works.
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there you have all you ID fucks. we can show you how the eye evolved. the next step is to make sure people learn to accept it. i bet they probably won’t because they don’t want to seem foolish.
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behe, in his own world, views his idea as evidence of design. however, with all pseudoscientific theories, it is proved to be retarded. just because he is a biochemist doesn’t mean he can prove ID. ID is a joke.
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the ID proponents are good at making themselves look like assholes, yet they fail to prove their point.