Please do not take any offensive “hate mail” written by Christians as an example of Christianity. We are not very good Christians; we who use words of hate. You must understand, however, that you have completely pissed us off. This site is just stupid. The concept is stupid. I can give you evidence against evolution if you so desire.
I do sort of agree that ID should not be taught in schools, but neither should evolution. It is wrong that evolution, classified as SCIENTIFIC THEORY, is taught as a fact. Teaching evolution in schools is just as offensive to us as teaching ID in schools is to you. We are all people.
The majority of Christians do not want to press our beliefs upon anybody else. The same cannot be said for scientists, it appears. Plus, while Christians want to bring wayward people to God for the wayward people’s sake, scientists want to study and elaborate on evolution because they think they can discover something wonderful and get rich off of it. So, there is still a difference between the two sides.
I think this whole fight is futile. It is written that God’s children will be hated by all, and I can see that’s the way it’s going. Everybody hates Christians…
-Yet Another Christian
Oh, Graustian again,
.
Lastly lastly, I just want to address this point:
.
‘Who are we to decide how long a day is in the eyes of our Lord?’
.
To adopt a line of common-sense that can be found at http://godisimaginary.com/, did God not know whom he was writing for, then? Is it a divine oversight on his part? Did he just forget, or not realize, that a human day was hundreds of millions of times shorter than his own? If the bible is supposed to be god’s word to us, can’t we expect him to speak clearly enough for us to have a fighting chance of understanding him? He did *create* us, after all.
.
If you are somehow happy to accept that The Omniscient God can make such a schoolboy error right at the beginning of his Big Book of Truth, then you’re going to have to ask yourself ‘Who are we decide what a single claim anywhere in the bible means?’ If 6 days might mean ’several billion years’ in godspeak, then maybe ‘created’ actually means ‘found’, ’stole’ or ‘broke’. There is nothing in the bible that is beyond doubt if you are going to allow its author such an enormous margin of error.
.
Who knows? – Perhaps Jesus really *is* a mishearing of ‘cheeses’.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
Mike Meier you are todays winner, as you called exactly right!
.
The answer to todays quiz was… as you called it?……………..North Carolina!
.
.
This issue first came up for me in civics class in high school. At the time I was at least a deist, when they told us it was in the NC constitution, that a person had to believe in god to hold public office. This has nothing to do with the oath of office. Even then I realized that this was bullshit.
.
.
In recent years I found a website that links about 13 state constitutions that mandate the same things. ( I am currently too drunk to find them so forgive me). I’ll try to find a link for you in the sobriety of tomorrow.
.
I have considered running for some low-level position sheerly on the position of atheism in order to challenge this law.
.
Our own national constitution almost wasn’t ratified because of jackasses trying to place wordage that included god into it. Unfortunately the same checks and balances didn’t go into our state constitutions, which are littered with god references.
In fact, there have been as many as five proposed ammendements to the constitution, that would have placed wording that specifically addressed god or jesus christ in the constitution. One of these attempts sought to include JC in the constitution, because it was believed that the civil war was god’s retribution for us not mentioning JC in the constitution. Fortunately none of these attempts were ratified.
.
Unfortunately the congress in 1956 did vote to add “one nation under god” to the pledge of alegiance, in an effort to separate us (the godly ones) from the godless communists (the russians).
go figure!
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
I an interested in seeing those resources you mention, Nick the Infidel. I didn’t find any such requirement in the NC Constitution when I checked. There are references to god, but none that prohibit the holding of an office.
.
OEJ
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
Haven’t found the quote I’m looking for, but heres the states preamble to our constitution:
“We, the people of the State of North Carolina, grateful to Almighty God, the Sovereign Ruler of Nations, for the preservation of the American Union and the existence of our civil, political and religious liberties, and acknowledging our dependence upon Him for the continuance of those blessings to us and our posterity, do, for the more certain security thereof and for the better government of this State, ordain and establish this Constitution.”
Dependence upon him! Absolutely disgraceful!
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
Okay I found it!
“Sec. 8. Disqualifications for office.
The following persons shall be disqualified for office:
First, any person who shall deny the being of Almighty God.
Second, with respect to any office that is filled by election by the people, any person who is not qualified to vote in an election for that office.
Third, any person who has been adjudged guilty of treason or any other felony against this State or the United States, or any person who has been adjudged guilty of a felony in another state that also would be a felony if it had been committed in this State, or any person who has been adjudged guilty of corruption or malpractice in any office, or any person who has been removed by impeachment from any office, and who has not been restored to the rights of citizenship in the manner prescribed by law.”
http://statelibrary.dcr.state.nc.us/nc/stgovt/article_vi.HTM
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
The following persons shall be disqualified for office:
First, any person who shall deny the being of Almighty God.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
Just in case………………………………………
Sec. 8. Disqualifications for office.
The following persons shall be disqualified for office:
First, any person who shall deny the being of Almighty God.
http://statelibrary.dcr.state.nc.us/nc/stgovt/article_vi.HTM
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
There’s alot of posts around here, so just in case anyone missed that I’ll post it once again. I feel that this is quite important!
.
.
.
Sec. 8. Disqualifications for office.
The following persons shall be disqualified for office:
.
First, any person who shall deny the being of Almighty God.
.
http://statelibrary.dcr.state.nc.us/nc/stgovt/article_vi.HTM
America—-What?
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
I thought you guys (America) had separation of church and state in your constitution?
I’m steering way clear of NC if I’m ever in the states. Thats outrageous!!!
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
A-Vast me maties,
In your own words;
“It is written that God’s children will be hated by all, and I can see that’s the way it’s going. Everybody hates Pirates…”
Shoving Off,
Purple Beard CEO Pirates Global
P.S.
AAAAAARRRRRRRRRRGH!
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
Now I want to look at my state’s constitution to see if ours has any references to God. I doubt it. We are, after all, the “Live free or die” state (New Hampshire). If our constitution does have something like that in it, I’ll have to consider going ever farther North to Canada. This may even anger some of my fellow Americans, but I don’t have the loyalty I once had to the U.S.A. I’m a bit ashamed of many decisions “we” have made lately. By the way, don’t blame me. I didn’t vote for Dubya! To be fair, it isn’t all his fault, but I find myself disagreeing with almost everything he says. May the FSM guide us on Election Day!
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
Found it! even drunk as I am! Though it is only 9 states, not the 13 that I stated before!
.
“State Constitutions that Discriminate Against Atheists”
Arkansas State Constitution, Article 19 Section 1 (”Miscellaneous Provisions”)
No person who denies the being of a God shall hold any office in the civil departments of this State, nor be competent to testify as a witness in any court.
Maryland’s Declaration of Rights, Article 36
“That as it is the duty of every man to worship God in such manner as he thinks most acceptable to Him, all persons are equally entitled to protection in their religious liberty; wherefore, no person ought by any law to be molested in his person or estate, on account of his religious persuasion, or profession, or for his religious practice, unless, under the color of religion, he shall disturb the good order, peace or safety of the State, or shall infringe the laws of morality, or injure others in their natural, civil or religious rights; nor ought any person to be compelled to frequent, or maintain, or contribute, unless on contract, to maintain, any place of worship, or any ministry; nor shall any person, otherwise competent, be deemed incompetent as a witness, or juror, on account of his religious belief; provided, he believes in the existence of God, and that under His dispensation such person will be held morally accountable for his acts, and be rewarded or punished therefore either in this world or in the world to come.”
Massachusetts’ State Constitution, Article 3
“Any every denomination of Christians, demeaning themselves peaceably, and as good subjects of the commonwealth, shall be equally under the protection of the law: and no subordination of any one sect or denomination to another shall ever be established by law.”
Comment: Apparently Non-Christians are not “equally under the protection of the law”.
Mississippi State Constitution. Article 14 (”General Provisions”), Section 265
No person who denies the existence of a Supreme Being shall hold any office in this state.
North Carolina’s State Constitution, Article 6 Section 8
“Disqualifications of office. The following persons shall be disqualified for office: First, any person who shall deny the being of Almighty God.”
Pennsylvania’s State Constitution, Article 1 Section 4
“No person who acknowledges the being of a God and a future state of rewards and punishments shall, on account of his religious sentiments, be disqualified to hold any office or place of trust or profit under this Commonwealth.”
South Carolina’s State Constitution, Article 4 Section 2
“No person shall be eligible to the office of Governor who denies the existence of the Supreme Being; …”
Note: If you continue reading you will find that (in Section 8) the Lieutenant Governor must also meet the same qualifications as the Governor.
Tennessee’s State Constitution, Article 9 Section 2
“No person who denies the being of God, or a future state of rewards and punishments, shall hold any office in the civil department of this state.”
Texas’ State Constitution, Article 1 Section 4
“No religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office, or public trust, in this State; nor shall any one be excluded from holding office on account of his religious sentiments, provided he acknowledge the existence of a Supreme Being.”
.
.
You have to love the 1984 doublethink going on in the Texas constitution……
“No religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office, or public trust, in this State ; nor shall any one be excluded from holding office on account of his religious sentiments”
.
.
.
“provided he acknowledge the existence of a Supreme Being.”
.
.
How do you contradict your own thoughts in the same paragraph that you wrote the initial thought? My english 1200 grad student wouldn’t have let this shit slide. How does it end up in a state constitution.
No religious test shall ever be required as a qualification………. provided he acknowledge the existence of a supreme being! Thats one hell of a qualification! What the hell is a RELIGIOUS TEST then. Where the hell was the daily show back then?
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
That being said, I’m glad I have the freedom to voice my opinions, and thank you to any veterans out there. I may not approve of what the Commander in Chief and his minions concoct to “protect freedom,” but I appreciate the sacrifices made by all our military personnel and their fammilies.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
Sorry, forgot the link!
.
http://www.godlessgeeks.com/LINKS/StateConstitutions.htm
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
“I thought you guys (America) had separation of church and state in your constitution?
I’m steering way clear of NC if I’m ever in the states. Thats outrageous!!!”
I’ve long ago resided to the fact that my vote will never mean a damn thing in this bum-fu*& state, but don’t let that keep you from visiting.
.
.
All the creationist propaganda in the world can’t take away from the natural beauty found in this state. You can go from beautiful beaches, to rolling plains, to amazing mountains within a days drive.
.
Don’t let the jackasses that have come to dominate this land ( ergo Jesse Helms), keep you from visiting. It is absolutely amazing, and you should see it for yourselves!
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
I’m stunned. Didn’t realise things were that bad!
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
The citizens can spoil your experience of a place though. When you go somewhere really beautiful and find a bunch of ………, well anyway it can be a depressing visit.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
“I’m stunned. Didn’t realise things were that bad!” – nikkiee
.
.
These things were set up hundreds of years ago! Many have been trying to fight them for a while. Its always been an uphill battle, but of late…………….
.
.
.
Well, you’ve seen what has gone on, I don’t need to cite it for you.
.
.
Pray to be doused in divine meatsauce!
RAmen
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
Not to worry. The number of pirates is exponentially rising. Have faith the great FSM!
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
Thank-you for the link, Nick.
.
I did some more checking and found the following Supreme Court decision which decisively trumped any state requirement:
.
http://religiousfreedom.lib.virginia.edu/court/torc_v_watk.html
.
Quoted from the above link: “This decision prevented states from using religious faith as a prerequisite for holding public office. The Court rejected the argument that holding such jobs is a privilege that can be restricted to people of faith.”
.
I have my doubts that the link you provided is referencing the current versions of those state constitutions. Other sites I visited indicated that they were taken from old versions. The Torasco vs. Watkins decision that I linked above was from 1961. As it trumps all state requirements for religious declaration, I would think most of those constitutions have been ammended by now. If not, the point has been rendered moot by the Supreme Court. Again, input from those with legal backgrounds would be appreciated here.
.
.
Nikkie,
.
Yes, the US Constitution does provide for separation of Church and State. It also grants to state governments all authority not specific outlined by the federal constitution — the US government like many governments has multiple levels: federal, state, local (county), and city. As such, there is wiggle room for things like this until tested by challenge in court.
.
OEJ
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
Pirates shall inherit the world. Peace and democracy will reign once again.
RAmen
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
“The citizens can spoil your experience of a place though. When you go somewhere really beautiful and find a bunch of ………, well anyway it can be a depressing visit.”
.
.
I can easily show you places where you will hike a mile into the woods to stare over a 500 ft waterfall, and smoke a big spliff………..Alone!
.
.
How do you think we keep our sanity?
.
.
Nature is the big attraction, the ignorant yokels are just added comedy. Please come and visit so we can share this amazingly funny joke with the rest of the world!
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
We need to recruit lots and lots more pirates.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
Nick
I will get over there sometime. I have heard about the beauty of your state and I’m not that fragile. Why can’t they just all go and live happily ever after in the desert with their imaginary friends. There’ll be no science or “devils spawn” to bother them there.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
I’m off to bed. I’ll need some extra rejuvenation for a bit recruitment drive tomorrow in between work.
RAmen
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
One Eyed,
Thanx for the link to that case and decision, as I was unaware of it. While I agree that this would likely trump any case where an Atheist would seek office, I do not think that it has forced states to ammend their state constitutions.
.
.
This case was posed in 1961, yet my NC civics textbook circa 1995 still recognized said religious test, regardless of whether the law could still be imposed. I may be able to legally argue myself into a race for public office here, but I don’t think the wording of our states constitution has been changed in any way shape or form!
.
.
This is what pisses me off!
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
edit ‘big recruitment’
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
You might be right about the ammendments, Nick. The fact that my state, Indiana, isn’t on that list makes me feel that we’re “progressive”… not a feeling I get very often. hehe.
.
OEJ
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
Mmmm, maybe a pastafarian political campaign is in order? After all, if Michael Moore could get a ficus (fig tree) to win an election, surely we can too?
.
Also, i know this is a bit late, but Mike, that trial summary was awesome.
.
Finally, Nick, I hope your poor state catches up with the modern world someday.
In the meantime though, thank the FSM for untouched wilderness.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
“You might be right about the ammendments, Nick. The fact that my state, Indiana, isn’t on that list makes me feel that we’re “progressiveâ€â€¦ not a feeling I get very often. hehe.
.
OEJ”
Take comfort where you can grab it!
.
.
Of course, should NOT scoring last in a stupid-bee really be claimed as a victory? (not to demean your state). These days it is an amazing victory! Please send some of those moderate sensibilities this way!
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
I’ll just put this up before I go down. I think it’s a pat on the back for the pirates.
I can’t post a link as I got it from one of the subscribed journals on our database and
I couldn’t find a public access copy on the web.
I’ve also shortened it down to the important bits.
There are a lot of pirate supporters out there.
.
The Journal of Pediatrics
Volume 149, Issue 4 October 2006, Pages 433-434
NOTES FROM THE ASSOCIATION OF MEDICAL SCHOOL PEDIATRIC DEPARTMENT CHAIRS, INC.
THE THREAT TO MEDICINE FROM THE CULT OF IRRATIONALITY
There is a threat to rational thought from what I characterize as a “cult of irrationality.†I believe that there is a small but significant anti-rational, anti-scientific subculture within our society made up of diverse groups and interests. This subculture exerts its influence through a larger, poorly informed and scientifically uneducated segment of the general public as well as through the political system. It represents a major indirect and direct threat to scientific programs, including clinical investigation and science and medical education as well as education at primary and secondary public school levels.
First, in the past year “creationists†and “anti-evolutionists,†now calling themselves “Advocates for Intelligent Design,†have significantly distorted or eliminated the teaching of evolution within the science curricula of a number of public schools across the country, including Alabama, Georgia, Kansas, Ohio, and Pennsylvania. They have pressured some movie theaters and science museums not to show movies or exhibits that mention the “big bang†theory of the origins of the universe, the evolving geology of the earth, and the observations of Darwin. They argue that Intelligent Design is a legitimate scientific theory and should be taught as an alternative to the theory of evolution.
.
However, as Professor Daniel Dennett of Tufts University has pointed out, to be considered a scientific theory, the “Intelligent Design†idea needs to provide an explanation for existing biologic facts, explain the observations of the process of natural selection, and be formulated as a testable hypothesis. It is not any more scientific to point to man as the end result of design than it would be to contend that intelligent genetic engineers came to earth 6 million years ago from another galaxy and genetically re-engineered some primates to give them language and enlarged frontal lobes for planning and reflection; it worked, resulting in human beings! Nor would it be more probable than to contend that life started on Mars and was blown here by cosmic impact.
The endorsement of this religious belief by influential politicians and movie stars does not make it a scientific theory, a testable hypothesis to be taught as an alternative scientific theory to evolution. There is no scientific content or controversy to teach about in a biology class. However, Intelligent Design theory might be an excellent topic to teach in a high school class on current events and contemporary politics.
………….It is important to appreciate that the hard-core zealot spokespersons are only part of this problem. A segment of the public goes along with the zealots, not because they have arrived at a supporting opinion by a careful weighing of the pros and cons of the issues, but because there is often not an effective countervailing public voice for rational thought
coming from respected leaders in science, medicine, and the business community. Many of our political leaders, both Republicans and Democrats, seem to develop a paralysis of
rational thought on these issues because of the perceived ballot threat of a highly organized vocal minority.
.
Having organisations like this speaking out can only help :)
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
i agree w/ nikkiee. different organizations can only help the diversity of america and the UK. even if some of the organizations oppose all of humanity. case in point… the, i swear to god there is one, george bush fan club
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
What are you talking about? Do you ever make sense Chap?
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
He’s a strange boy (?)… but his heart seems to be in the right place. Maybe we can over look his earlier transgressions in light of his discovery of the pasta?
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
Yeah Aussie. I was just going to repost. Too used to his earlier posts.
Took me a few minutes to get my head around it.
You just need some capitals Chap. Just try a couple at a time to start with.
All my moonlighting at this site has got me burning the candle at both ends!
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
You’ve become a pastafarian chap? Ahh….that brightens my day.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
Chap, How come your name is a link to amen.com?
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
Parody? Why else bring something like that to the attention of a bunch of satirical athests like ourselves?
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
Oh btw, in light of the increasing number of Australians revelling in the noodely goodness, I would like to hearby announce my name change.
.
I shall henceforth be known as……………
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
Jingles
.
(don’t ask, it is a long story involving intoxication, bells and a group of mates)
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
Yeah. lol
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
Hmm….strange name ….I’m not sure I want to know!
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
Well, I must vamoose. G’night all.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
I’m outa here. Running out of matchsticks.
Cheers
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
I find it offensive that only one view of religion is taught in church, yo ushould give equal time to christianity, hinduism, buddhism, islam etc. in your churches.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
@Graustein
Its good to see you haven’t been caught up in the literalist cults. Your size days idea is indeed much more believeable, but the basis for the whole effort to rationalize all this needs to be addressed. You still seem to be caught in the “because the Bible tells me so” trap.
.
When people try to use the “literal” approach in the “word of God” argument, I like to counter, “No problem, I’ll concede for the sake of argument that the Bible may be the literal word of God, but I say God just wasn’t speaking literally. He was dumbing it done for us monkeys.”
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
@ All pastafarians, atheists, humanists, Brights, and free-thinkers,
.
Ahoy there!
.
I’m copying this post onto a few threads because I’d like as many people as possible to notice it. (Bobby, if you should read this, is there any chance of a new thread?)
.
You might have spotted on these pages Richard Dawkins’ high-profile references to the FSM, unmasking himself as at the very least an honorary pastafarian and certainly a friend of pirates the world over. He’s done his bit for the FSM – here’s a chance to return the favour.
.
His many books on evolution and, in particular, his recent book ‘The God Delusion’ have influenced a lot of people here.
.
Anyway, here in Britain, one of our national newspapers, The Daily Telegraph, in conjunction with Morgan Stanley, is running the third annual ‘Great Britons’ awards. People are invited to vote for the British person they think has been the most ‘Great’ (somehow) in each of seven categories.
.
Me salty guts tell me that a hearty lot of pirates’ll want to support their own and put their cutlasses behind Richard Dawkins, by far and away Britain’s noodliest man of 2006, and doubtless also he of the biggest meatballs.
.
I nominated him earlier today, in the ‘Campaigning’ category. You can add your nominations by visiting greatbritons.org. It takes barely a minute and might help one of the FSM’s finest sea-dogs to the gain the legendary status he deserves. You can even put in a 50-word explanation of why he gets your vote, which would probably strengthen the case (if you’ve anything to say). If you’d like to know more about him, try visiting richarddawkins.net.
.
Douglas Adams fans might like to note that Dawkins and Adams were close friends and that Adams credited Dawkins’ books ‘The Blind Watchmaker’ and ‘The Selfish Gene’ as having influenced his reasoning towards atheism. Dawkins wrote a ‘Lament for Douglas’ immediately after Adams’ death, and delivered a eulogy at his funeral.
.
I’ve a second reason for recommending this. The Telegraph ran an article by regular columnist Charles Moor on Saturday that dismissed ‘The God Delusion’ as ‘fashionable’ and gave a very selective, wilfully interpreted representation of its content. It’s a good newspaper but pretty thoroughly conservative – not an obvious place for pastafarianism to thrive. In light of this, I think it doubly worthwhile to demonstrate the strength of support that Richard enjoys among the world’s many pirates to the Telegraph.
.
(Note – I’ve left http:// off the website addresses in this post, as the first couple of times I tried to post it, it got stuck awaiting moderation. Hopefully this’ll help.)
.
Nominations for the awards continue until November 24th. If ye can spare a second of plunderin’ time, set a course for greatbritons.org and add your cannon to a broadside for free thinking and the FSM!
.
May His Noodly Appendage be upon ye all.
.
RAmen
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
Here is the dedication page from “The God Delusion” by Righard Dawkins:
IN MEMORIAM
Douglas Adams
(1952-2001)
‘Isn’t it enough to see that a garden is beautiful
without having to believe that there are
fairies at the bottom of it too?’
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
“Evolution IS taught as a theory, and damn near everything in science is a theory. Things like gravity, which you said are “scientifically proven facts,†are still considered THEORIES. They just have observable evidence backing them up, just as evolution has observable evidence backing it up.”
Its not exactly right to say this. That things fall is a fact. That animals have evolved is a fact. That water boils is a fact.
A scientist puts together a THEORY to EXPLAIN the facts. The theory should be coherent, logical and should be able to PREDICT certain effects (..if this theory is true then…) (or if we see this then this theory is false)
Theories can be modified and discarded…we whoudl not do that to the facts!
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
Ta, PastaServer134. Apt post.
.
Joe Blow, having just disagreed with you over $14, I’ll chip on to agree with you on this post, partly for the sake of being invigoratingly inconsistent and partly because you are bang-on right.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0