Please do not take any offensive “hate mail” written by Christians as an example of Christianity. We are not very good Christians; we who use words of hate. You must understand, however, that you have completely pissed us off. This site is just stupid. The concept is stupid. I can give you evidence against evolution if you so desire.
I do sort of agree that ID should not be taught in schools, but neither should evolution. It is wrong that evolution, classified as SCIENTIFIC THEORY, is taught as a fact. Teaching evolution in schools is just as offensive to us as teaching ID in schools is to you. We are all people.
The majority of Christians do not want to press our beliefs upon anybody else. The same cannot be said for scientists, it appears. Plus, while Christians want to bring wayward people to God for the wayward people’s sake, scientists want to study and elaborate on evolution because they think they can discover something wonderful and get rich off of it. So, there is still a difference between the two sides.
I think this whole fight is futile. It is written that God’s children will be hated by all, and I can see that’s the way it’s going. Everybody hates Christians…
-Yet Another Christian
The reason evolution is labelled a theory is the same reason anything in science is labelled a theory, and the reason why ID is not a valid scientific theory. In science, a theory is an attempt to figure out a natural explanation to some natural phenomena. These scientific theories can be supported or refuted by scientific measurements and experiments. For a scientific theory to keep its label as “theory,” it means that up until now, experimental and observational data supports the theory. However, a laboratory experiment cannot PROVE anything. It can give support to a theory, or it can refute a theory. The theory of evolution gives testable parameters. It is conceivable that someday it could be disproven, but so far, every shred of scientific evidence lends support to the theory of evolution. On the other hand, ID does not provide any testable parameters. It gives a supernatural explanation to natural phenomena, and basically refutes the scientific method. The main idea behind ID is “this is too complicated, so lets give up trying to figure it out, and say some intelligent designer made it instead.” There is nothing wrong with believing in ID personally, but it is not science, and has no place in a science book or science classroom.
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Well done, Katie! Succinct, easy to understand, and to the point.
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Cunnilingus Rice:
“Would you prefer if I foamed at the mouth, signed in as “Jesus Loves You†and told you I would laugh when your ass was kicked into hell, that I would pray for you and your blasphemous sins, tell you that evolution is just one big lie after another and recommend that you read “The Case for Christâ€?” –I wouldn’t mind. Those posts are funny. (Feel free to call me a moron for that, I just didn’t want to pass up the oppertunity.)
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A-hmmmm! Maybe we shouldn’t be so hard on(no pun intended)Cunnilingus Rice,even though the name is a bit funky.I think they were just defending my right to deliver ‘cute intentional snark’ .So thank you for the effort, but the truth is it dosen’t really bother me that much . I come here because the people are generaly funny and intelligent AND open-minded.Sometimes you run into one or thirty that think they have to tell everybody they are sooooo wrong and all the 138 ways in which they are wrong.As much of a poo as this seems ,it’s still OK, if I come here to say whatever I want-so can they,and so can you,isn’t that why we all come here ? If you’ll take a look at my response to Orthodox Agnostic I did point out to them that they were a little over the top and they calmed it down. So,as I like to say’peace ,love and don’t pick your nose in front of other people’. RAmen.
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no llamas
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Realise that Penne. Twas just the way in which it was done. However there were similar posts across other threads as well. By the way I do believe that aqua-marine is legal as is fuschia and teal.
Also I think you are very capable of defending yourself!
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Wow! Not just a Christian but a fundamentalist! I shake you by the hand; you indeed are a dying breed.
Yes, evolution is a scientific theory, but unlike faith, scientific theory can be TESTED, and PROVEN. And it is. Faith comes down to probability. And the odds, on your side, are not great.
However, I must congratulate you. You have about twice the amount of brain cells as the average Christian poster, in that you a) understand that it is SATIRICAL and we are outlining how ridiculous ID is and b) you realise that Christians are using words of hate, which is, as you say, not being good Christians.
Yeah, we are satirising your religion. About time someone did something, as athiests have been hated for years. George Bush senior even went as far as to declare athiests not American citizens.
Anyway. Have fun in heaven, and try not to get irritated with people who disagree with you. As a fundamentalist Christian, you will meet lots.
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Seth….
Hey’s a volley for you… gravity is a theory. That’s right, a theory; not a fact but a theory. And who says that teachers aren’t scientists? Many older teachers are people who have work in the science industry and decided to share their knowledge with the next generation. Another thing is that many science major students also get a diploma in education so that they have other options if their career in science doesn’t work out.
And to the person who wrote this original letter…. I don’t hate Christians, some of my best friends are Christians and if they and I (a Pagan, I know, I’m going to roast in a hell that I don’t believe in) can get along so well with each other then the hate-filled zealots should learn some moderation and understanding. After all, didn’t Christ say, should a man hit you then turn and offer him the other cheek?
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@Powers
….(a Pagan, I know, I’m going to roast in a hell that I don’t believe in)…..
Could we perhaps entice you to choose the beer volcano as your final destination?
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Christ was smart guy! It’s a proven fact today that people who look the same on both sides of their face are healthier and attract more mates;>
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What if the cheek he was talking about wasn’t on his face?
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You need to look good back there too.
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Well said, NTWHM! Sometimes I feel a little intimidated because I don’t have the time or wherewithal to delve too deeply into the ongoing debates on these threads. I do have a lot of fun trying to participate in my own way, which usually involves a good amount of sarcasm and a lot of irreverence. I am awed time and time again by the eloquence, wit, and intellect displayed here.
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PS,nikkiee,thank you by the way.Growing up in a family of 8 you learn fast that diplomacy and humor are always the right road away from a wedgie.
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@ Cunnilingus Rice – Ok, ok, I once put my GPA in a post, but only because someone accused us (Pastafarians) of only believing in this “crap” because our brains were addled from drug use. I wanted to assure the person that, although I did a prodigious amount of partying in my teens and early twenties, my brain still functioned pretty well. I agree with you that one’s GPA is not necessarily a relevant talking point in this forum. One can have a very high GPA and be clueless about very important aspects of life. That being said, how are we supposed to have a meaningful debate with fundamentalist cretins? Furthermore, maybe I don’t want to have a meaningful debate. Maybe I’m tired of behaving well all day and I just want to cleverly tell someone to stop trying to shove his or her religion down my throat. I’m tired of feeling like I need to apologize for not being a Christian. Also, I was confused about your comment that there was no intelligent debate going on here. Obviously you haven’t been looking in the right places. Yes, there is a lot of tomfoolery, but there is also plenty of earnest, in-depth debate from many different angles.
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This debate is absurd. If you are angry that evolution (which is as close to a proven fact as gravity) is being taught in schools one must ask….so what? So what if you’re angry, what if I were angry that schools were not teaching the “Flying Spaghetti Monster” version of design in schools? Creationism has not a shred of proof, nor does intelligent design. Evolution on the other hand is a scientific theory which is observable and backed by mountains of conclusive data. Evolution not only elegantly explains all of the life on this planet in an elegant and highly probable manner, but it does so without invoking an all powerful sky-fairy which not only fails to answer the question but begs more questions such as “who made the sky-fairy” and “where is the evidence this sky fairy even exists”.
The term “theory” is only in front of evolution in a strictly semantic sense, indeed in countries who teach science in science classrooms (the United Kingdom being the most obvious example of a secular society who recognises demons, necromancers, hobgoblins and sky fairies have no place in a science classroom) “theory” is not put in front of evolution, indeed due to it’s highly observable nature evolutioin may aswell be called “the fact of evolution”. Now, as this entire argument is based on the nonsense assumption that intelligent design and creationism is “on par” with evolution simply because the word theory is smacked on both needs to be forgotten. There has never been, and likely never will be a shred of evidence for intelligent design of creationism. Neither explain how we got here, after all saying “God did it” is on par to saying “The Flying Spaghetti Monster did it”, they do not add to the understanding of our existence. However evolution, which can not only be observed under the microscope but is backed by fossil evidence (and before anyone points out “gaps” in fossil evidence I feel the need to point out fossils in themselves are very rare occurances, indeed as Dawkins points out in “The God Delusion” it is a miracle we have as much conclusive evidence as we do from fossils) and countless studies expains evolution in an elegant, simple and entirely provable manner. Evidently Evolution, ID and creationism are not equal theories. Intelligent design and creationism do not advance scientific understanding at all, whereas evolution is a consciousness raising masterpiece of science. Evolution, which is not a theory of “chance” but a theory demonstrating the gradual climb, inch by inch up the slope of evolution through natural selection, is the only scientific theory which explains our existence.
To conclude, if you find it insulting your sky-fairy theory is not being taught as equal to science in a science classroom you need to ask yourself something – “why am I pushing a baseless sky fairy theory on people who only wish to study science?”
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This could be a premise for a movie. We could call the movie,
“When People In Search of Scapegoats Just Don’t Get It.”
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@Ben
Exactly. Even people who research evolution question it, but their question is, “What needs to be proved? Can I gather evidence to support it? If so, will it be enough? If I can’t gather evidence, is there a reasonable hypothesis I could share with my peers to be studied later?”
.
To Fundamentalists:
The only “evidence” for ID is the bible. A book written before we knew the Earth was round. Before we discovered DNA. If it was written today, it would have likely have been heavily influenced by evolution.
Evolution has been reinforced in the respect that we now know that fruit flies mutate due to recessive genes in their DNA. DNA, in some form or fashion, is part of the downfall of believers of creationism.
.
Evolution is a (scientifically accurate) theory. ID is an attempt to explain what could be better explained by science and observation. We don’t know everything about evolution, or how we came to be, but that doesn’t mean that it’s false. ‘Nuff said.
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you know, crulix is right that about something. he is probably another christian hated by all. poor crulix
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So I’d just like to throw in my two cents and comment on what I see as a deeply confused persons response to FSM. First, I never thought of this as an attack on Christianity at all and I’m lost as to why so many people are takeing it as such. When my dad showed me the article in the Washington Post, I immidiately saw it as a simple and comical satiric device using an example of a fabricated religion to show what the author felt was wrong about ID. This is hardly attacking the Christian religion but rather pointing out what the proponents of ID are essentially saying.
Secondly it is dissapointing, being a jew, and seeing an obviously devout chrisitan say “everyone hates christians” dispite the fact that the U.S. (which i assume “yet another Chrisitan” lives in) is a Chrisitan society. This is dissapointing because from a jews perspective Christians are quite well liked considering the country runs on their calender and holds much of their vaules. Continueing with that point, if everyone hates Christians, then why would the possibility of teaching ID, an unarguably Chrisitan belief weather faith based or not, even be considered?
Thirdly, you are correct in saying that evolution is not fact but is rather a scientific theory, but as with all things in science nothing can or will ever be totally certin. A hypothesis is tested through trial and error and thus theorys are developed and encorperated into the scientific body of knowledge, however, no theory is ever 100%. The reason evolution is taught in schools is because it is the theory with the most overwhelming amount of quantatative and qualitative evidence to support its findings. If ID were to have evidence which supports the idea that life is to complex to have developed on its own, with explanations as to why this is so and what could have created life then it would be acceptable to teach. However, seeing as how evolution is the only theory to have scientific explanations of life it is thus the accepted and taught theory.
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RAmen Burger
However Darwin’s “Origin of the species” produced the evolution theory. Evolution is the process which has been observed to follow evolutionary theory.
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nikkiee…just to be nitpicky
.
If memory serves me, I don’t believe that Charles Darwin actually used the word ‘evolution’ in “Origin of Species”. He referred to the process of ‘natural selection’. His grandfather was actually credited with coining the word ‘evolution’. Evolutionary theory has since evolved beyond simple Darwinism as things like genetics and a more extensive fossil record came to light.
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Your right Mad John. I was just trying separate Evolutionary theory, as a theory, from the observed processes of evolution, which as you say is natural selection. The theory is the guide and natural selection is the process of evolution. By the way Burger, that wasn’t really for your benefit.
RAmen
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Christians,in their Happy-Go-Lucky way ,liked to call it ‘evil-lution’. Cute,no?
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wait… according to the christians, we are ALL Gods children, so then according to Y.A.C., it is written that all people will be hated. doesn’t that seem like a kind of bad thing to have on your religion’s resume? We, as Pastafarians. promise to only hate SOME people. maybe even A LOT of people. but not ALL.
RAmen
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Yes, we are all people, some of us are just better at being assholes than all the rest. I have something to say about christians, and that is, almost every one of your gosples devalues women in general, how can a religion be about equality when for majority of it’s existance it has caused war, bloodshed and prejudice. I like this religion because it is creative and gives motivation to younger people to think outside the square. FSMism inspires the younger generations, whose minds are not yet persuaded to follow blindly, although popular cultures influence is overtaking our lives. It helps us to learn to question theories that have existed for millenia, just because we have done something one way for a long time does not necessarily mean that it is the best way.
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Frandom, don’t be so smug. Eventually, FSFism will branch into opposing sects who will then war, ala Ireland. (Perhaps North and South Dakota!). The, FSMism will surely takes its place in the annals of history!
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RAmen brother!
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henderob (the original poster, wayyyy at the top) was apparently elected supreme speaker for all the Christians of planet Earth (including those that speak other languages and do not share his/her beliefs (or so he/she has claimed).
My question is this.
Can I be the speaker for all Pastafarians?
Pick me!
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Qasdf,
.
Henderob did not write that that post. Henderob is our enlightened prophet Bobby Henderson (blessed be his name). He runs this website. He’s in pretty tight with the FSM, so be nice if you don’t want to be drinking stale beer for eternity.
.
OEJ
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@ Qasdf
Henderbob only posted what was sent to him in an email, (if you look at any hatemail they are all ‘from’ him) he tends to get a lot from the Flying Spaghetti Monster haters out there after creating it and all.
You’ve just misunderstood it I think
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Another Christian says…
“Teaching evolution in schools is just as offensive to us as teaching ID in schools is to you. We are all people.”
We sure are, though some are smarter than others. When you people look at this site and say it’s stupid, we find it amusing because all you are dong is admitting the stupidity of your own pathetic belief system. FSM is just as ‘real’ as your god. Reality has nothing to do with opinion or belief. What is, just is , and it doesn’t care if you believe in it or not! In that sense FSM is much closer to science than any religion will ever be. Belief in religion is ignorance. There is no nice way to put it. It’s scary to think that there are so many people who don’t seem to have the intelligence to see the irony in their own criticisms of obviously more righteous Pastafarians. Anti-FSMism shows that you are either, ignorant, stupid, lacking any comprehension of reality and/or silliness whatsoever, or all of the above. All hail The FSM and Great Prophet!
To Henderbob: While on a recent pilgrimage to purchase my own copy of the Gospel, I was horrified to find that, in Chapter’s, the teachings of our leader are catalogued under ‘Humour’! I shudder to think of the scandal that would arise if The New Testament was displayed under such a catagory. Even though we have a HUGE congregation, I find it sad that out of 6.5 billion people in the world, only Pastafarians REALLY get it.
PS: I have come accross secret documents that prove the Priory of Sion was a real religious group. They still possess the grail to this day. Scholars have described it as an ancient thermal pasta cooker… (it cooks in minutes, right before your eyes!)
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ok so you raise an interesting point, why should we impose our veiws on you and teach evolution in skools?
religion is not wrong.
but scientific fact has effected many of the christian churches teachings, eg: the sun revolves around the earth…we know no other wise…point is, why should small things like this truly matter if god really exists? lets teach fact, and let students make decisions for themselves…p.s not everyone hates Christians…:)
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I want to congratulate you on creating an excellent parody of Creationism, I feel sorry for all the people who have bothered to send you hate mail saying how “you trully are morons” (for example) as this is nothing to scoff at just because it is a very recent spiritual development. In reality the idea of the ancient Yahwistic God is just as absurd, but is more widely accepted due to its age and wide range of countries that it covers.
In my view nobody should take offence to this website, it’s a really intelligent way of attempting to uncover peoples’ wool-plagued eyes, and all you prejudiced tossers out there who take this website literally should just stick to your own beliefs if you don’t like this radical new idea.
However, I must apologise to the FSM fundamentalists, as I hold no spiritual beliefs what-so-ever and hold the concept of a flying spaghetti monster as ridiculous as the idea of the Christian God. Having said that I applaud you’re courageous attempt to give your God a definite image.
Perhaps your prophet will call his disciples and in the late 2000’s a select few FSM evangelists will collate the details and eyewitness accounts of your travels and in time your very own canon of scripture will be decided. Of course this will inevitably lead to the synoptic problem and prompt university scholars in a few millennia to study the texts in great detail…
-Dismas
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My only regret is that Dr. Stephen J. Gould was not alive when this site came into being. Yes, he is the original Scientist named Steve. The list of Steves who “endorse†evolution was started in his memory.
For everyone out there who keeps saying that evolution is a theory, please read his article “Evolution as Fact and Theory†at: http://www.stephenjaygould.org/library/gould_fact-and-theory.html
“Well, evolution is a theory. It is also a fact. And facts and theories are different things, not rungs in a hierarchy of increasing certainty. Facts are the world’s data. Theories are structures of ideas that explain and interpret facts. Facts do not go away when scientists debate rival theories to explain them. Einstein’s theory of gravitation replaced Newton’s, but apples did not suspend themselves in mid-air, pending the outcome. And humans evolved from apelike ancestors whether they did so by Darwin’s proposed mechanism or by some other, yet to be discovered.â€
If we are going to appear to understand the science behind evolution, let us not make mistakes in terminology that they can use against us.
And for all the Christians out there: please remember that a Catholic is a Christian.
And for anyone who wants more info on how to make their ideas look like science check out “the Bell Curve†by Charles Murray and Philippe Rushton’s “Race, Evolution and Behaviorâ€. If Hitler had had these guys working for him, he’d probably have won the war!
I myself am looking into this FSM. I have sent away for my copy of his Gospel. However, I currently belong to the Daughters of Marlon Brando. I can tell you no more about our secret religion for fear of prosecution…or persecution. But I was never touched by HIS noodley appendage. Long Live FSM!
Alice Whiskey
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Well, I had a look at that ID website mentioned further up this thread, and couldn’t help but notice an absolute lack of a ‘post thread’ or ‘post comment’ button… they must be afraid of public comment. More kudos to the Pastafarians for having the guts to let anyone on the Net post replies.
If you ask me, the only ID website worth a visit is iD Software.
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ahem…
evolution may be classified as a scientific theory, but that does not mean that it is built on flimsy evidence. in scientific literature, until something has been explained completely, it is referred to as a theory. so, even though evolution has been accepted as true almost unanimously by scientists, and has been supported by a wealth of evidence and the results of blood, sweat and tears of years of research, it cannot lose its title of “theory” until then. it does not at all mean that it is easily refuted, and it is definitely far more qualified to explain our origins than a myth can.
in fact, on a different note, I have often wondered how people can see evolution as a colder, less enchanting story of how life on earth came to be! is it not absolutely awe-inspiring to thing that these amazingly complex life-forms around us arose from the tiniest sparks of life so many years ago? and how did life form? I think it is fascinating, and much more satisfying, than being told to believe that a megahuman, who appeared out of nowhere for no apparent reason at all, decided to create a planet and torment its inhabitants.
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@chocolatemonster
.
true
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Hmm, the fact that now everyone hates christians kinda shows how WRONG the bible is.
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There are two basic steps to science. The first is quite creative, and it involves forming a hypothesis, or educated conjecture. The second is completely scientific and requires testing that hypothesis by attempting to prove it wrong. If the hypothesis, after numerous risky tests, is not proven wrong, it is labeled a “theory.” Now, calling a hypothesis a “theory” is a huge compliment to the scientist that created the hypothesis in the first place. Very rarely do theories develop into laws. But if the theory is tested over and over again, and if each successive test does not prove the theory wrong, then it gradually develops into fact. Obviously, with new scientific discoveries being made daily, even facts can theoretically be proven wrong, like when the geocentric model of the solar system was replaced with a heliocentric model, but this sort of revolution seldom happens.
Now, to get to the point: the “theory” of evolution has already developed into fact. There are literally no recent articles promoting creationism to be found in reputable scientific journals. Further, creationism cannot be taught as a scientific theory in schools precisely because it is not scientific; it cannot be tested.
Hope this helps!
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I can tell you that scientists are NOT trying to make money the way you say it. Have you even SEEN their paychecks?And they don’t FORCE their fact’s and theories on people.That’s what christians do, not directly, but through social coercian and sometimes through violent action.Evolution MAYBE a theory, but there is no better sustitute for it, and it has almost no flaws, if any, the best arguments any other religion can provide are based on flimsy or scriptural evidence, it’s just that it is almost impossible to prove something on so large a timescale.Those bouffant haired shiny suited evangelicals are fleccing gullible thousands out of millions of dollars.Seriously, a mega preacher said that god would kill him if people didn’t give him their money, and recieved 8 million dollars!!!Creationism is [almost;-)]bunk!unless the creator had evolved himself!NEXT TIME YOU DARE MAKE SUCH AN INSULTFUL ARGUMENT,BACK IT UP WITH SOME ACTUAL EVIDENCE!!!DON’T JUST MAKE UP STUFF!!!
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Don’t compare blind-trust to evidence. THAT is the difference.
People like you provoked me a big revelation the other day. After vomiting it all, my stomach felt a lot better.
Ramen
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Where to start, firstly this is in no way meant to attack you or your beliefs as a Christian, only your statements are on trial here. If you visited the website and took time to read it, (at least thats my assumption) and you beg to differ on the views expressed thats your right. However keep in mind that you do not see posts like this degrading the content of the site on the Christian Science Monitor’s website or and other major religion’s website for that matter. I am glad to see that you are informed enough to see that ID should not be taught in schools because there is no scientific evidence for it. If you do have some please present it in an academic forum or journal such as Nature. I am sure that once it passes the rigorous peer review phase it will be printed and science curricula the world over updated to include the new information. If you lookup theory on dictionary.com you will see this at the bottom of the list of definitions “A theory in technical use is a more or less verified or established explanation accounting for known facts or phenomena: the theory of relativity.” Whereas “A hypothesis is a conjecture put forth as a possible explanation of phenomena or relations, which serves as a basis of argument or experimentation to reach the truth: This idea is only a hypothesis.” You said it yourself, evolution is a theory, a very technical one at that with a immense amount of verification in academia. Therefore it meets the same criteria as say the theory of relativity or quantum physics. You also state that the Christians do not wish to impose their views upon others. This is blatantly false as is evidenced by the Christian faith based voting initiatives in the US most notably during the last two Presidential elections and the unfortunate election of a Christian President that on numerous occasions has attempted to push an agenda based off Christian ideals. Also your statement that scientists do what they do just to get rich” is absurd. Scientists are ridiculously underpaid when compared to their business counterparts, look at the Forbes list of the 500 richest individuals in the US and you will see that they are predominantly business people and any scientists on that list are statistical anomalies. If you feel that this does not satisfactorily address all your statements please continue the discussion on this page.
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I would like to see this anti-Evolution “evidence”, but, I’m afraid I don’t believe you have it.
And the whole “It’s only a theory!” argument fails completely. All science is is theories, supported by facts. Evolution has so much overwhelming evidence in its favour, that for all intents and purposes, it can just be considered fact. Christians deceive people into believing there’s a big invisible guy who created everyone because they are closed minded, and afraid of the truth. Scientists study nature in hopes of explaining the world, helping humanity. And oh yes, poor poor Christians that don’t always completely get their way in a secular nation, why don’t you just go off to live in some theocracy.
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At the fund a mentalist bible schools, kids appear to be told that evolutionists (Satan deciples!) say that worms and monkeys turn into people. They are also told that evolutionary “belief” in natural selection is reponsible for murder and other past atrocities.
RAmen
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By the by – have you ever seen a foetus develop? (not at you Nikkiee). It starts out almost identical to a fish. What is the water content of humans? Erm. and the sodium content of that water would be? ooh – is it, like, seawater levels?
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Alchemist
Sometime last week I was trying to find an illustration in one of the texts on the bookshelf at NCBI (so I could link the illustration). It shows about nine embryos from different species. I can’t pick which is which.
RAmen
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Got to log off again and go take care of some stuff.
Catch you later
RAmen.
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Nikkiee isn’t daft oh worshipers of false gods. Have a look at the ‘photo’s some time – they’ll blow your minds(?)
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-’the fund a mentalist bible schools’-Yeah, Wench, I’ve heard that too! But for some reson they always leave out the real details of the crusades, and all the other fun things christians are responsible for( that can actually be proven).
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