Please tell me this is all a huge joke.You cant realy believe that a huge thing of spaghetti created everything.If you realy do believe this then you’re all idiots and I’ll pray for you.
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An elaborate spoof on Intelligent Design, The Gospel of the Flying Spaghetti Monster is neither too elaborate nor too spoofy to succeed in nailing the fallacies of ID. It's even wackier than Jonathan Swift's suggestion that the Irish eat their children as a way to keep them from being a burden, and it may offend just as many people, but Henderson, described elsewhere as a 25-year-old "out-of-work physics major," puts satire to the same serious use that Swift did. Oh, yes, it is very funny. -- Scientific American
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Bobert, for all your insults towards the end of that post, your running away from the thread really says it all.
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@ Anyone who’s listening,
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So frustrating, isn’t it? The closing tactic of ‘I’m right, and here, watch as my fingers now go into my ears and I hum LOUDLY AS I WALK OUT OF THE DOOR, HMM HMM HMM’.
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Leaves me desperately wanting to chat to Bobert, but knowing that I’m just shouting into an empty room.
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It’s just skin-rendingly frustrating when you’ve reached an opinion on the world by questioning your beliefs, questioning what you were brought up with, listening to both sides, giving both sides a chance, reading, thinking, reading more, thinking more, talking to friends, listening to people better informed than yourself, facing difficult emotional decisions, testing yourself and your opinions through public behaviour and through debate, being honest with yourself about how you feel about your own opinions and seeking to address any holes, sticking points or inconsistencies, for years and years – and then to be told:
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‘Your arguments are so full of fallacies that it’s not worth it to me. I’m above your piddly grade-level,there is no benefit for me debating with you on account of your dimwittedness. I’d like to pose a rhetorical question, who’s the dunce now?’
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Well, Bobert (if by some weird chance you are reading this) – if you insist on reducing the debate to that level: you are the dunce. Doubly so, in fact, because a question doesn’t just become rhetorical because you say it is – the answer has to actually be blindingly obvious. Actually, the answer in this case *is* blindingly obvious to your audience – but I assume you didn’t really mean to end your post by saying ‘I am a dunce’.
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Bobert, if you do read this, all I ask, and all anyone on this site would really ask, is please, please, please keep on thinking. You obviously know a bit about a number of the issues involved in this. But the fact that you’re so ready to slam the door when challenged suggests a worrying closed-mindedness. Sure, keep Believing if that suits you. But don’t be suspicious of doubts or attacks against your faith. Give them space, listen to both sides – try as hard as you can to prove yourself wrong. Remember – a worthwhile attack will come from *outside* your faith – any belief system that pretends it can define and counteract all its possible flaws from within is lying and should make you very suspicious. Keep thinking, openly, honestly. See where you end up.
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Good luck.
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Bobert
“I’d like to also point out that none of you have suggested that you behold any practical knoledge of evolution.”
I agree that I for one have no “knoledge” of evolution, however I do have a fair bit of knowledge of evolution. Your story sucks!
“I’m believe that we came from very basic ucaria”
So god created the ucaria ?? Then everything evolved from it? Is the ucaria as a sacred entity in your church then?
Your last two statements were very childish. Calling out personal insults as you run off down the street? Seems to be a lot of that, from opponents to evolution, in these threads.
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BTW
Insulting children who have been born with Downs Syndrome, through no fault of their own, is very unchristian
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He’s gone, Nikkiee. FSm knows where he’ll end up, stranded in a wrold he clearly doesn’t understand the first thing about. Pray to the FSM that he isn’t frightened by the sight of a friendly person with Downs Syndrome into jumping into the path of an approaching car.
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I’ve been looking back over this thread. (Love OEJ’s courtroom drama, btw.) And I’m starting to think I may actually have been too nice to Bobert. He said some bad, bad things. Still, maybe his god’s okay with that. (Sure, I remember the bit in the New Testament where Jesus took time out to point and laugh at Downs Syndrome kids.)
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Pirates can be forgiving, though, Bobert. Accept that the only thing worth giving a damn about is what actually exists, and that that means actual living, breathing creatures, and we’ll be your friends. Otherwise: have fun in fairyland!
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RAmen, J! Your speeches are inspiring. Maybe you should consider being a traveling prophet of the FSM?
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You know, I think I am starting to have a crisis of faith. Not of my faith, but of others.
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We keep getting new people coming and posting at us, insulting us, deriding us, dismissing years of work by scientists, because their faith tells them to.
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So we argue our case. We may be pedantic, we may be a little mule-headed, but every single time, without fail, we argue our point logically, with humour, or with at least some semblance of reason.
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So many of the people we argue with give up. They tried to win through a theistic spout, they couldn’t, and so they go.
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Some, such as Christian (who has endured a fair bit of a savaging at our hands, and who I have a lot more respect for) still remain, and still continues to bring up good points.
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BUT unfortunately, we continue to get waves of new fanatiics as well. As fast as the previous ones leave, we get new ones. The same ridiculous claims, the same unwillingness to listen to our arguments, the same accusations and damnation.
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Does anyone remember Jason (yup, im in the bible belt)? How bout James in Germany? Or the hundred of others we have argued the point with? Why does it keep going round and round in circles.
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Where do these people come from? Who the hell makes them act like this? WHAT THE HELL makes them act like this?
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How can a faith that preaches so much love result in so much hate? Why are humans so screwed around in the head?
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FSMdammit, I need a drink.
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I actually felt a little bad for Bobert towards the end. I could see that he was contemplating a change, BUT… couldn’t get past the indoctrination he received as a young’n. You know how hard it is to be an athiest in this world. All the bible thumpers come out in droves if we even suggest that God may be a fallacy, like killer bees defending their hive. I’m not ashamed. I don’t believe in God, and I don’t feel one bit limited in my life. Christians I think are limited. They are told what to believe. FSM promises beer volcanoes and strippers. To be drunk and viewed by all, regardless of faith.
RAmen.
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Hey Nikkiee,
Let’s get married. A nice Vegas ceremony. I think you and I could make beautiful music (and Heathens) together. I have a 40 of Labatts, a good job, and I own my own home. (wink wink)
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Awww a marriage… how romantic. You’ll need a pirate guard of honour, and a bouquet of noodles to throw, though.
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Que cheesy “love is in the air” music
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Thanks Aussie. How would one(s) go about getting hitched with FSM? That is, assuming that Nikkiee wants to take the plunge. Hey Nikkiee! I would make a good husband! I am a good cook, and I am smrt. I can spel good, and I have all the “attributes” of a porn star. Ok, some of the attributes. But we can negotiate once we are hitched!!
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@ Gill: (blush)
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@ Maxwell and Nikkiee: oooh (sorry:) Arrr! That’d make me sun-warmed day! A marriage of minds and a pledge between Pastafarians, with a cross-section of penne on the ring fingers (plus a fine piece of plundered booty for good meaure). I’d sing a shanty for ye, even though I’m known to kill deaf animals at five nautical miles through the tone of me salt-bitten voice. Here’s raising me grog to ye!
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@ The Aussie: on the crisis of faith: I know exactly how you feel. I can’t go on spending so much time here – I have my own life to sort out, and it’s going nowehere at present. After a point, you read the new posts and you think: we’ve done this argument. We’ve done it to death. Am I going to repeat it all over again, for someone else who’ll steer for the horizon when the waves get choppy?
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Maybe patient repetition is what successful missionaries are made of.
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I wonder whether we could persuade Bobby to put in a ‘Pre-Posted Pastafarian Pearls of (P)Wisdom’ page. We could edit the interruptions out of the best discussions we’ve had and put them on there. Or plunder the forums and cobble together the best answers we’ve got for the most commonly recurring issues. Then, instead of reasoning everything out over and over and over ad nauseum, we’d have a self-constructed resource to point people to.
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I tell you what, though. This place does sharpen your argumentative faculties. Like Davey suggested a week or so back, you can test and refine your anti-theistic armoury here. And maybe, when we’re just not learning anything new anymore – maybe we need to go out and meet ‘em face to face.
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Plenty of grog and booty on this here galleon, but I don’t be knowin that I’ve got all the answers. Trust to the FSM, say I.
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Oh, everyone:
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Today, Ken Ham’s book Evolution The Lie arrived from Amazon, alongside three Richard Dawkins books that I haven’t read yet.
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I haven’t read it yet. But I flicked through to get the gist, reading the odd bits and pieces here and there and looking at some of the cartoons (yes, there are cartoons – it’s *that* intellectual).
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I’m not in a fair position to judge it yet. But, based on what I’ve seen: even the FSM, with His Divine Meatballs, must be gobsmacked by the sheer amount of bollocks in this book.
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Updates as and when.
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…..I like cartoons……*cough* J, if you’ve got the time and you see anything good, would you mind posting some of the more stupid arguments up? I wanna stay on top of their arguments and all, heh.
Actually, that’s the most fustrating thing about this whole site…you spend a good few minutes typing up a wonderfully-put, smart answer to some ID’rs questions, and the next day some OTHER ID’r comes and asks the same questions all over again. I’m thinking of copy/pasting my answers into MS Word and then saving them, so I can just keep using the same responce over and over again.
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@J
I’m getting married?
Maxwell, I will need to think on my answer carefully before I give it.
RAmen
ps Do you have a pirate ship?
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BTW
I’m not sure which thread it was in now, but someone posted asking about papers on ID
so as to get a balanced idea of what both sides of the ID debate had to say.
I’ve searched the uni database for any of their articles published in a plethora of science journals and have come up empty handed. I found a few editorial articles responding to their ideas, but that’s all. It appears to that only places Behe and Dembski were published were in the Natural History Magazine and through their own books. The following article in Natural History Mag groups all (seemingly) their papers into one article.
NATURAL HISTORY MAGAZINE
http://www.actionbioscience.org/evolution/nhmag.htm
To the person who put in the request: I hope you have found this post.
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That link is no good. Here’s the site:
http://www.actionbioscience.org/evolution
Look in: Intelligent Design?
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The few editorials I found in the science journals, all referenced the above article as the scource of Behe and Dembski publications. Both of these ideas men also provide a list of suggested reading and site links with each of their articles.
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@gill
The above Natural History Magazine article also includes a response, to each of the ID presentations, form the other side.
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It appears that this war the christians are fighting against science, exists only in their own minds. No doubt in my mind now that any excuse will do for the christians to try and start some sort of war with anyone, who they feel, doesn’t beleive in what they want.
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MY closing arguement.
From the main “scientific” Creationist site
http://www.icr.org/articles/view/3103/
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Fighting Against the Forces of Darkness
by Lawrence Ford
“Although the theory of evolution might seem highly improbable, it [is] not impossible,†Dawkins reportedly declared to his audience. Forget the science; let’s talk about those right-wing Christians who believe in God and creation. ……
…..But is the Christian community prepared to discuss these larger issues of philosophy and worldview? The Enemy has no plans to step aside just because we have better scientific facts than they. He is committed to getting his message out to anyone who will listen.
Are you?”
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The enemy?? This is one example of how the rank and file are informed they are at war!
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Can anyone make a connection between what Dawkins said:
“Although the theory of evolution might seem highly improbable, it [is] not impossible,â€
and this guys translation of it in his recruitment speech:
“Forget the science; let’s talk about those right-wing Christians who believe in God and creation.”
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Now that is truly frightening…
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The Discovery Institute claims to have several peer-reviewed journals as of December 2005 but most have little to do with design and do not show much in the way of original material.
http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/CI/CI001_4.html
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Thanks for thanks for that Mad John. I don’t know how many tens of thousands of jounals are on our database but no ID papers in them. I’ll check Discovery out!
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Got that list. I’m familiar with most of those journals. I’ll check out the peer reviews of those papers when I get a chance.
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OK! Your link negates the need to do that. Cheers.
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nikkiee….
You may be interested in The Pandas Thumb review of Jonathan Wells latest piece of…whatever. The Politically Correct Guide to Darwinism and Intelligent Design. If you haven’t already seen it. Hillarious stuff.
http://www.pandasthumb.org/archives/2006/08/the_politically.html
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@nikkiee
“….I don’t know how many tens of thousands of jounals….”
My bad. Make that articles instead of “jounals”
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@Mad John Kidd
Always up for some humor. I’ll bookmark it for a free time slot.
RAmen
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Bugga! “Humour” Must stop posting on the run.
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Arrgh,
IT’S A MIRICAL!!!
I AM THE NEW MASIHER!!!
I JUST WENT TO THE TOILET AND TOO MY SUPRRISE I FOUND A NOODLY APPENDAGE AND TWO MEATBALLS! I AM TURNING INTO THE NOODLY MASTER HIMSELF!!!
ALL WORTHY SEADOGS… BOW DOWN TOO ME!!
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Something just occurred to me. If we convince all the fundies and creationist nuts that they are wrong and we are right, then we will have to hang out with them.
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I don’t think they’re the type of people I want at the beer volcano. I bet they’re the type that just gawk at the strippers and never tip. No class. Tuck a buck… rhinestone g-strings don’t come cheap.
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OEJ
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@Nikiee:
Note that that’s “The Enemy” with a capital “E” – you know what they’re talking about, right? Apparently, if you take the word “scientist”, and jumble the letters up, take some away, add some other arbitrary letters, you get “baby-eating jesus-raping satanist”.
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interesting thought One Eyed Jack,
Soooo who would you want to be in the beer volcano… apart from pirates, midgets, etc
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Wenches of course.
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Yay links! Seriously, ‘the Enemy’? Are they planning on starting a war over this soon, or what? People are weird.
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Dear stupid bobart, just because the pope made people kill other people doesnt prove that jesus existed. his noodliness probly just wanted some people dead, or wasnt there to stop the pope. christianity is a parody of life, its something to hide behind, because ur afraid of the truth. dont pray for me, unless ur wearing full pirate regalia when u do it
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arghh,
*sigh* i have had many a good night eating spaghetti on me vessle, drinking me rum, thinking about wenches.
I’m with you me ol swashbuckling seadog!!!
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Ok serious question… I’m intrigued to know
If God only created Adam and Eve and they only had two sons, (Cain and Able) doesn’t that mean that incest had to go on in order to populate the planet?
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I asked that in an RI (Religous Instruction) class at high school and as a consequence, was made to sit outside the classroom every RI slot for the rest of term. If one of the school heads saw you standing outside, during class, you were hauled up to the office. (the teachers knew that!). However no one was ever dragged up for being outside during RI? The end of my religeous training. :)
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Some religious apologists argue that incest did indeed occur among the children of Adam and Eve. They had other children other than Cain and Able. Their argument is that genetic mutations are a consequence of our accumulated sins. Since Adam and Eve were God’s first creations, their genetic code was without mutation. Due to the lack of “sin mutations”, incestual reproduction would not result in the birth defects we observe today.
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Somebody was smoking something when they thought of that one!
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OEJ
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Since God killed off everyone but Noah and his family in The Great Flood, we are actually supposed to be the incestuous descendents of Noah. Or so the story goes….
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Hmmm, two evolutionary bottlenecks then for the jewish (and later anglo-saxon) population. SO… why then do the african populations have a greater genetic diversity (as outlined by others on “You have completely pissed us off”)?
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Were they good swimmers?
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Were they good sinners?
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Were they smart enough to climb a mountain when it got all wet like that?
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Was there even a big flood in the oh so dry Africa?
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OR maybe it just never happened…
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Hmm…I think God forgot to give you, and a lot of other people, a funny bone. ‘Coz if he had, then you’d have realized that, yes, this is a joke for most of us.
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Praying generally doesn’t make anyone LESS stupid.
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Well… prayer can often be resorted to in times when a good hard think would solve the problem. Assuming the problem is not life threatening, this pattenr could repeat itself. Over time, the disuse of braincells could result in them atrophying.
Givena large enough time frame, it could conceivably result in a diminished Intelligence Quota
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agrhh… typos everywhere
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Even if Noah made it through the flood with no sin-mutations, his sons immediately went about earing major new sin mutations.
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I still think Paul was gay. Not that there is anything wrong with that.
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Have ye not seen the educational scientific video of the wrath that may or may not await non-believers?
http://www.guzzles.org
Safe to watch even for non-believers..
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