If you are right, and evolution is the only answer, then we will all just be dirt-food when we die. But if you are wrong, and the intelligent design people are right and there is a God, then you’ll be in a tough spot.
By the way, did you ever read what the Kansas School Board had proposed? It doesn’t sound like it from your letter.
California Boy
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An elaborate spoof on Intelligent Design, The Gospel of the Flying Spaghetti Monster is neither too elaborate nor too spoofy to succeed in nailing the fallacies of ID. It's even wackier than Jonathan Swift's suggestion that the Irish eat their children as a way to keep them from being a burden, and it may offend just as many people, but Henderson, described elsewhere as a 25-year-old "out-of-work physics major," puts satire to the same serious use that Swift did. Oh, yes, it is very funny. -- Scientific American
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“About Jesus empty tomb, the Roman soldiers had a job to do. They would be killed if it wasn’t done correctly. That’s a historical fact. So no they wouldn’t have let grave robbers come in and steal the Body, nor would they directly disobey there orders”—Yes, they did have a job to do: kill the annoying rabble-rouser cauing trouble for them. I doubt they gave a rat’s ass about what happened to his dead body…..in fact, as Jesus was obviously religious, they might have enjoyed the idea of his grave site being vandlized.
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“However, scholars have tried to prove other wise for years, and they can’t come up with any viable scenario. People don’t accept the evidence because it’s supernatural; I understand that. The evidence is still what it is.”—doesn’t mean there isn’t one. Humans are stupid sometimes, we rarely come up with all the answers. And supernatural evidence ISN’T really evidence. Can you go to a court room and say, ‘this happened, and i can prove it because there’s no other way for it to have happened so it must be because of god?’ No. Crop circles are often atributed to aliens, but that doesn’t mean they really WERE made by little green men in flying saucers. Just because you don’t know the reason something happened doesn’t mean there isn’t one. Obviously, under this logic you could very well be right. BUT you could also very well be wrong, and it’s that hole that I find disatisfying.
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“Do you think they are still in their original state?”—No, I don’t. You’ve used that argument before. Difference is, what Plato or anyone else wrote thousands of years ago is most likly VERY different from the orgional…..but then, those books aren’t claiming that believing in them will save your eternal soul, are they? The bible is just like anything Homer wrote….a good story that’s been exaggerated over the years because that’s just what happens. Hell, even if god himself wrote it….that doesn’t mean it still couldn’t be mistranslated over the years! Or is god the one doing the translations, too?
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“I must admit that there is something truly poetic about that moment to me, but it’s sad…really sad.”–Ah, but without sadness how will you ever apreciate the pure beauty of being happy? (Makes me wonder how heaven can be perfect….perfection would get pretty damn boring after a while.)
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“the Bible is the only source we have for this occurrence”–and there you have it, why so many people refuse to believe in Jesus’s rebirth. Why ONLY the bible? Surely there were some other folks out there who would have written such a huge event down?
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“It encourages investigation”–interesting, that’s not the image it gives off to the world…..to many, it sounds like, ‘ask all the questions you want, but if you find the answers elsewhere then OBVIOUSLY you’re wrong and will burn in hell.’ What’s the point of investigation if you’re only allowed to come to the same conclusions as everyone else?
(That’s why my religion always interested me, even when I didn’t agree with it fully…..I’m sure you’ve heard the old joke about how two Jews arguing over relgion will never agree on anything.)
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Hey y’all,
I like this debate! To be honest, if there’s one thing I believe in before evolution or religion it’s open and uncensored dialogue, so well done chaps! I have a bit of a different perspective that I’d like to ask you about and it’s to do with the massive pre-occupation scientists have with religion and ‘religionists’ about science. Some of you may have read Don De Lilo’s White Noise, a fine novel at the end of which there is a great scene with a nun in a hospital in which she proclaims that she doesn’t actually believe in religious “bullshit” but that the rest of the world needs to believe that someone believes. It’s a bit paradoxical, but interesting. So scientists, is it at all true? Do you like holding the possibility of religion at some deeply subconscious level? And religionists (may religioners is better…) is there an element of excitement or danger in conceiving of the transgressive possibility that you’ve been wrong all along? I’d like to know.
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gill,
i like you. just thought i’d share.
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The proverbial shit happens folks and when it rains, it pours kind of thing. You see, what you don’t know is that God knows every hair on our heads and everything there is to know about us. Some of us are seers and visionaries. Some of us have extra ordinary gifts of the spirit to see ahead or to perceive of things. Well, like two kids sitting at a sandbox and life is weird because we are in the end days and not everyone means what they say and the road is paved with good intentions. But the proverbial shit happens. You can quote me scripture all day long but I live this surreal life.
In my life, there is heartache and pain. I don’t know if I can face it again…to live this lonely life. I want to know what love is, I know you can show me. Well, you see this woman sang out loud and her songs were taken from her. It is too easy of a temptation not to steal her songs and how can anyone prove it? Well God can prove it. I ask God for signs and I get them. I know God, I am reincarnated, that’s why.
That does not mean bad things don’t happen to me. I am living here with the rest of you guys, suffering in the end days with the rest of you guys. God is the lamb of Heaven.
He suffered and died for our sins. When I was a little girl of the age of 2, I was knocking on doors and preaching. Yes, I was! My parents did not believe in God and they caused me a lot of grief about it but I kept on asking for signs cause that is my job. Then one day Satanists told me to stop preaching or they would kill me and they proceded to fight me until I moved away. So I blended in with my surroundings and just prayed in secret but these are the end days and Revelations even tells you they shall kill some of you. I was almost killed but let me tell you this, GOD is going to judge those who harmed me and I do not envy you.
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So while the killing four and I have had to be apart all these years, let me tell you right now why he came into my life when he did, maybe just to let me know someone cared if nothing else about what I was going to go through. Maybe even to concur with me on the end days. Our love songs on the radio will be remembered throughout time now. We hope you enjoyed them.
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Forgiveness yes, but you see folks, you don’t know all of the story yet either of the confusion that was to take place later on and the pain I went through. You don’t know about the blackouts I had and times where I was so close to death, it was knocking at my door. So you just stop your accusations and stupid remarks. God knows what I have been through. Horrible, truly horrible. Anyhow, it won’t stop me from preaching and trying to reach my goal of letting you know that God is not a fairytale. Where is God? I was praying and my second oldest sister walked in ridiculing me about it. She said I was crazy, there was only her and I in the room. I retorted that God was speaking to me and was still in the room with us and would give us a sign. Right then the ashtray flew off the table onto the floor. Later God would punish my sister, Cindy, for her lies and her trouble making ways. The Bible says he can avenge the enemy and He knows who the enemy of God is. Later, Cindy would attempt suicide feeling her guilt over what she had said and done to me.
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Now you’re disappointing me, Nic. I already gave you a basis for moral judgement in my first post and I don’t feel I need to repeat it. We are talking about moral absolutes. It is not measured against another standard. This can be a stumbling block for the religious as they find it hard to separate the idea of morality and divinity.
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You are correct that “Matter and energy are silent and amoral,” but you are ignoring a basic fact; the whole is greater than the sum of its parts. We are not simply matter and energy. Making such statements is lazy logic and belittles your arguments.
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And the FSM said unto the masses, “Go forth and multiply… but have some dinner first. Never multiply on an empty stomach.”
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RAmen.
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In reply to Nic
“You wrote, “We have nothing of any evidence that he existed.†– please do at least a little research before you write something for people to read. There are lots of NON-Christian sources that document the historicity of Jesus.”
>>>>> I would go so far as to say that Jesus existed historically speaking, however there is no evidence that he is anything other than a man, and not the son of god. If you can prove to me that he is indeed the son of god I will quit this conversation right now and start going to church.
“I am now going to answer you with a very general answer. It’s 3 a.m. at my house and I just don’t feel like getting out a bunch of books right now. However, if you would like me to be more specific, I will…tomorrow.”
>>>>> Please do.
“The major difference between Elvis and Jesus is that people started saying Elvis was alive years after he died, and they were making this claim in trailer parks miles away from Memphis. Jesus’ followers started making their claims three days after Jesus died and they did it in Jerusalem. If someone wanted to prove them wrong they could have pulled Jesus’ bloody body out into the streets and Christianity would have died that instant.”
>>>>> Here is the problem with that, it’s the same thing, crazy people thought Elvis was still alive, crazy people looking for something to believe in thought Jesus came back. And again there is no evidence that can prove ANYONE saw Jesus come back.
“You wrote a bunch of stuff about chicken, and well, it just made me hungry. I don’t see any connection to Jesus or the Bible. Further, I think…nah, never mind.”
>>>>> It was to prove a point, Jesus never wrote any of his own words down, only what people who supposedly knew him thought he said, the same goes for the Chicken recipe. Let’s think here for a minute, with the two recipes, which one would be the right recipe 1000 years from now? We would have two sides yelling at eachother (in modern standards, Jesus freaks trying to claim one or the other is right) trying to prove which one is right, and without the man who created the recipe, we would never know what was right (in our case Jesus).
>>>>>>>>>>
In any case, whether or not Jesus rose from the dead or not is a matter of faith, a faith which I do not believe in. I do not wish to curb someone elses thoughts about Jesus, in fact I think that what Jesus taught was admirable, I also think the other religious teachers/founders were admirable, I don’t choose favorites or try to undermine other religions.
Peace out,
~Allen
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nyx–
Yay! Well, I like you too.
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Oh, and Nic, for whenever you reply I might be slow….it’s Yom Kipur around me so I won’t be on much tomorow.
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I hate the whole label thing but I guess most would lump me in with the fundamentalists or as some of you commentators a wacko. funnily this wacko has a masters degress in science ed.
My God is too big, amazing and wonderful to be put in a box. Evolution is just an explanation of His magnificence, all science only explains how awesome He is. Christians need to embrace this and stop limiting the Creator evolver and Master of all things. Intelligent design started out as such a great approach until it became right wing left wing republican democrat wrangling! This saddens me.
The wit and humour of this sight is clever but also saddens me as it possibly can be taken as mocking God. Hopefully most will take it as mocking only small mindedness.
Blessings
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Bob writes, “My God is too big, amazing and wonderful to be put in a box.” Sounds like a shortcoming to me. Our god not only comes in a box, but also a can. His noodly goodness can be purchased in individual, family, and restaurant size.
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It’s the 21st century, age of the consumer. Packaging and delivery of your product to the market is a necessary consideration.
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RAmen.
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Bob, I appreciate the sentiments expressed in your post. I agree with Stephan Hawkings, who has said that when we find and understand the Grand Unified Theory of physics, we will “know the mind of God.” I’ve secretly been harboring a suspision that some form of God would be found at that point, where scientific understanding and religion meet. That was before I ever heard of ID. I have no problem with Intelligent Design itself. The issue I have with it is its followers whom are pigheadedly trying to insinuate it into schools as science. It may be related to science, and science may someday lead us to a better understanding of the origins of the universe, but ID, as such, is not science to me. I wouldn’t care if ID were to be taught in a Survey of Religions, elective-type course, but I don’t think it belongs in the science curriculum. You should know that this is as close as I have ever come to even thinking of agreeing that we could possibly someday be able to get a glimpse of the ultimate magnificence behind the creation of the universe. This in no way implies that I think it is Jesus, Muhammed, Allah, Grumpy, Sneezy or Doc. I don’t think that our puny brains, as evolved as they have indeed become, can even begin to claim we can comprehend, label, and package such a Force.
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Where in the Bible does it say that the Noodly Appendages aren’t to be taken literally? We all believe that Ramiel had 44 dog-heads and Ishael had many lions tales- we know the exact physical form of the Incubus and Sucubus so why is there debate regarding the Noodly Appendages? How do they contradict the other rediculous things we believe directly from the Bible? I ASK YOU JC FANS?
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wow. this took two minutes to load on dial-up. longest page yet! congrats!
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God? what is that “GOD”?
A superior creature without noodles and meatballs?
This is simply ridiculous!
A serious Pastafarian
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RAmen
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I will consult the book of Raman. Hmmm, it says God prefers people who follow written word over their own experience and judgement. I would have guessed that God would have said the opposite given my experience and judgement.
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argh im a pirate
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My Anthropology professor is a HUGE fan of the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster. His Greatness was spoken of with great reverence in our lecture about Evolution vs. Creationism. I am happy to report that most of my class (approximately 1200 students) have been touched by his Noodly appendage. RAmen.
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Oneeyedjack,
You wrote, “You are correct that “Matter and energy are silent and amoral,†but you are ignoring a basic fact; the whole is greater than the sum of its parts. We are not simply matter and energy.” – So what are we Jack? And how did we become more than matter and energy? You’re a romantic!
You can’t start with matter and energy and get meaning. Maybe if I let your own people say it, you will get it:
“Unless you assume a God, the question of life’s purpose is meaningless.†– Bertrand Russell, atheist
“Contemporary writers in ethics, who blithely discourse upon moral right and wrong and moral obligation without any reference to religion, are really just weaving intellectual webs from thin air; which amounts to saying that they discourse without meaning.” And elsewhere, “…The concept of moral obligation [is] unintelligible apart form the idea of God. The words remain, but their meaning is gone.” – Professor Richard Taylor, atheist
“The position of the modern evolutionist . . . is that humans have an awareness of morality . . . because such an awareness is of biological worth. Morality is a biological adaptation no less than are hands and feet and teeth . . . . Considered as a rationally justifiable set of claims about an objective something, ethics is illusory. I appreciate that when somebody says ‘Love they neighbor as thyself,’ they think they are referring above and beyond themselves . . . . Nevertheless, . . . such reference is truly without foundation. Morality is just an aid to survival and reproduction, . . . and any deeper meaning is illusory . . . .” – Professor Michael Ruse, atheist
“We have not been able to show that reason requires the moral point of view, or that all really rational persons should not be individual egoists or classical amoralists. Reason doesn’t decide here. The picture I have painted for you is not a pleasant one. Reflection on it depresses me . . . . Pure practical reason, even with a good knowledge of the facts, will not take you to morality.” – Kai Nielsen, atheist
Friedrich Nietzsche, the man who declared, “God is dead”, understood that without God there is no real right or wrong.
My point is atheist leap. They cannot live consistently with the logical conclusions of their atheistic worldview, so they close their eyes. The atheists are not so rational after all. They actually live everyday by what they feel, rather than what they can observe. An atheist cannot say anything is absolutely wrong, not even the holocaust, not even rape, or any thing else, for that matter.
Why is this is so hard for people to grasp and admit? I think it’s because the reality of absolute moral standards (i.e. murdering innocent children is wrong) is so obvious. People can’t accept that they don’t exist because they really do exist. This is certainly proof that there is a God. However, if you refuse to believe, please live consistently with the conclusions of your world-view. Christians are always griping about atheist ruining our holidays. But I say, “You can have the holidays, but un-hand our conclusions.â€
Atheism: DENOUNCE IT OR DEAL WITH IT!
Peace
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Dearest Gill and Allen,
Both of you had questions about non-canonical or extra-Biblical sources for the historicity of Jesus. Here:
Cornelius Tacticus – He confirms that Jesus was crucified under Pontius Pilate.
Lucian of Samosata – He confirms that Jesus was crucified under Pontius Pilate.
Flavius Josephus – He confirms that Jesus was crucified under Pontius Pilate.
Suetonius – He confirms that Jesus was a serious issue for 2nd century Jews.
Plinius Secundus, Pliny the younger – He confirms that early Christians worshiped Jesus as God.
Thallus – Explained away the darkness, which came over the land during Jesus’ crucifixion, as a solar eclipse. (That’ an unreasonable explanation since Jesus died at the time of a full moon: Paschal.) This guy establishes the historicity of the crucifixion and a specific element of that event.
Phlegon – He also mentions the darkness, and says that “during the time of Tiberius Caesar an eclipse of the sun occurred during the full moon.”
The Jewish Talmuds – Confirms Jesus was crucified on the eve of passover.
Peace
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It’s time for me to say goodbye.
I want to leave you all with this final thought:
Intelligent design is an interpretation of facts, but so is the theory of evolution. They should both be taught with that disclaimer. (Please don’t waste your time writing a reply that tries to prove the theory of evolution is not a subjective interpretation. You’ll look dumb. Everybody knows that objectivity is impossible for humans.)
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I am going to make this my last post. If you want answers to your questions about Christianity or creationism, I refer you to this site:
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http://www.leestrobel.com/LS_all_videos.htm
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This site is packed with all kinds of informative videos.
Read my previous post.
God loves you!
Peace
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I will make several points.
First, the argument that believing in God reduces the crime rate is nonesense. Or contrary to the available data anyway. Majority of people in Japan, Korea, Singapore, etc., do not believe in God but the crime rate in these countries is much less than, say, Russia, Mexico or Columbia, where much higher proportion of people belive in God. There is much better correlation between the standard of living of the people and the crime in that society, for example. So the moral argument totally fails, and any true scientist will understand that.
Second, I do not personally belive in God, but I have no objection to the argument that evolution is the God’s design. But then, there is no need to invoke a silly idea of intelligent design after all.
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Ooops, somehow I accidentally submitted the post before I finished.
Third, it would be disingeneous to lump all athists together because if there are 100 of them there will be 100 different ideas. As for me, I do not have materialistic point of view and that does not make me commit crime of any kind. Obviously such idea does not do any harm to other billions of people around the globe either. I think what make myself, or what I think is myself, is nothing other than the accummulated experiences and ideas in my brain. Of course the brain science is still in its infancy and we are quite ignorant of what sort of chemical reactions are going on in a particular stage in our brains, but brain scientists are making progress. I have little doubt that sooner or later many of the “mysteries” of today will be ellucidated. History is quite clear on this. Before Physisics figured out electricity and magnetism in 19th century, these entities used to be “mysterious” magic for lay people, and in extreme cases, many innocent people were burned as witches because stupid lay people at the time did not understand what we know now. Even though I am not a brain scientist myself, I know that I have many ideas today that I did not 10 years ago, and if I timeslipped and faced myself 10 years younger, then we would have serious disagreements in many issues. In short, everybody is changing daily and what you think you are today may be totally different from what you think you were 10 years ago. Such changes cannot be explained in the level of DNA and biochemistry and it must have something to do with how our brain functions.
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Ooops again. I mean I do not have any trouble with materialistic point of view. Well, it is quite clear from the context.
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Nic Intelligent design is based on facts, what facts you patronising W****r.
Another holier than thou idiot who hides behind faith and claims its fact, I don’t need answers to anything religious based so I won’t visit your little site.
Dumb only one person is dumb and its you, of all the people who have posted on here you are with out doubt the stupidist, most patronising, blind idiot yet.
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Why do I try? Oh, well, one last time. Please don’t twist my statements, Nic. The whole being greater that the sum of its parts is not some mystical endorsement of a spirit at work. It is a common, observed fact that occurs in all types of natural and manmade systems. A house is more than a pile of wood. A machine is more than a pile of metal. People are more than a colleciton of organic compounds.
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In response to your quotes I can only say that you gave me a nice chuckle. You have stripped half a dozen quotes out of context and pretended that they support your point. Honestly, I’m not even sure what your point is anymore.
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I will close this conversation with the same point I have made since my first post: there is a basis for moral judgement outside of religion. Religion demands and dictates it from high, kindly relieving the faithful from thinking too hard. Reason demands a thoughtful consideration of the true nature of morality.
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The difference between me (an agnostic) and the religious is that I am open to the idea I may be wrong. Anyone that does not allow for the possiblity that they may be wrong is a fool of the highest order. It is easy to change my mind. Simply show me some proof.
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RAmen!
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“I think it’s because the reality of absolute moral standards (i.e. murdering innocent children is wrong) is so obvious. “–You keep saying that and I keep telling you you’re wrong. Yes, most people feel that way, but not everyone, and therefor those standards are NOT absolute.
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Me thinks you have a lot of out-o-context quotes up there….and you’d be surprised at how meangiful a life spent having faith in things other then god can be.
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None of those quotes proved a thing. Who here is debating that Jesus was crusefied? I’m sure he was. What I’m not so sure about is what happened to the man AFTER he was killed.
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aww, leaving so soon? I wonder why…
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One Eyed Jack,
You wrote, “A house is more than a pile of wood. A machine is more than a pile of metal.” – Somebody made those things Jack!
Jack those quotes were in context.
For the record, I have openly admitted that I could be wrong (See my post to Mobzilla on Sep 28th, 2006 at 2:04 pm).
It has been fun Jack. I have enjoyed our conversations.
Peace
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Gill
You wrote, “Yes, most people feel that way, but not everyone, and therefore those standards are NOT absolute.”
So you admit that you have no right, as an atheist to say murdering innocent children is wrong. Finally, you get it. It’s wrong for you, but maybe not for someone else.
Lastly, I posted a very good case for the resurrection; read it again, please.
Here is a link to articles from a leading scholar on the resurrection (The resurrection articles are near the bottom of the list.):
http://www.leaderu.com/offices/billcraig/menus/historical.html
“Leaving so soon? I wonder why…” – I just have a lot going on right now, and I can’t keep spending so much time on this site. You all have been great. Thanks for the conversation.
Peace
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Dumpling
Please read the anthropological argument, which you called the moral argument, again. I think you have completely misunderstood it. It has nothing to do with belief in God making a society better. You can find a pretty good summary of the anthropological argument in my original post on Sep 24th, 2006 at 3:28 pm.
Peace
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nic, you keep assuming that the people who are disagreeing with you are atheists…
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Bizarre…science is most certainly NOT ‘just another religion’ or ‘another form of religion’. Science is the antithesis of religion. Science, by definition, relies on observation and hypotheses (and subsequently theories) that accurately describe those observations, as well as having predictive power of future observations. One of the fundamental tenets of Science is that theories be ‘disconfirmable’, in other words, that a method can be described by which the theory could be shown to be untrue (if, in fact, it is). Religion, on the other hand, relies on UNdisconfirmable things, like reincarnation, invisible friends, holy ghosts–things that, aside from being unproveable, are simultaenously undisconfirmable. How on earth could you even go about disconfirming the existence of a holy ghost? No, religion and science are not two sides of the same coin. They aren’t even both coins.
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“So you admit that you have no right, as an atheist to say murdering innocent children is wrong. Finally, you get it. It’s wrong for you, but maybe not for someone else. “—I’ve been saying that from day one. As an atheist (which I’m not), I have no REAL right to say that, if you wanna get deep into it—and niether do you. Niether does anyone. But I’ll keep saying it, anyway, right or wrong.
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And looking up at my previous post, I have discovered once again that my spelling ability is sadly lacking. Joy.
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I think your site is hilarious and I do not believe that ANY discipline should not be taught in the schools. In fact, I don’t understand why we don’t have more religion studies IN K-12 as well as Science courses. This is the study of THEORY in all sciences.
Religion is part of social science. We study it in college. Why not allow all studies in the K-12 grades and let the kids make up their own minds?! Isn’t that what it is all about? Using your own mind & making your own decisions.
When I say study religion, I do not mean propaganda. I mean the historical and social science study of all religions, along with math, science, english, national & world histories, etc. Give all theories equal time in school.
Physical science embraces hypothesis, theory, scientific method, and evidence. Religion is a social science, and therefore subject to a different method of study. There is more observation and abstract involved in religion. Faith is the hallmark of religion. But permit your children to study why that faith exists, how it was formed, what events and evidence sparked faith across religions. Maybe I am being naive, but seems to me that understanding might help quiet the fears of religious people.
Same argument goes out to the creationist… what are you afraid of if your faith is so strong? Let the schools teach your children what exists in this world…science, religion, history, math, literature, english, etc. Then let your child decide what he/she believes based on the information he/she receives.
Anyway…I am hungry now…too many pictures of spaghetti & talk of pasta for me! :)
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RAmen
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Pastor Disaster….If you pay attention to what’s written in the Bible, you will see that God is of both genders. God is everywhere and of everything…therefore God is of BOTH genders. Besides, if you really read the Bible (without influence from a Pastor), it will differ from person to person what gender the perspective is. BTW, we are all miracles. No matter how you think we came into existance, we are ALL truly MIRACLES!! We are Blessed with Each Other!
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I like life so I don’t want to be anyone standing before any god.
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I would rather burn in hell a million times over then appeal to some god’s vanity in an attempt to end up somewhere else. Any god worth worshiping doesn’t demand to be worshipped. Therefore, I will not worship. If child rapists and mass murderers can get into heaven based on “repenting” and accepting Jesus into their heart, I sure don’t want to go there. I’d rather burn in hell.
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Boy from California, I wouldn’t want to be you when you stand in front of The Flying Spaghetti Monster. I think he’ll be pretty pissed that you didn’t believe in him. He’ll probably just eat you when you try to get to the Beer Volcano and the Stripper Factory.
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I like you guys/gals. Really. I’ve spent so much time reading this one, single post, I feel like I know some of you. It’s a little like a cocktail party without the booze. There are the party mainstays: Gill, the Jew with his sly wit and clever, sometimes self-deprecating, humor; Dumpling; One Eyed Jack, the one everyone hopes shows up because he (or she) always lightens up the mood; Nyx–then there are the randoms who just pop in, make a bit of noise, get some attention, and then leave (like Crack is Whack–man, THAT post was out of the blue).
And then there is Nic. Seriously, you KNOW this guy is seething, totally champing at the bit every time he logs on to this site. His heart races, and all he wants to do is reach into the ether and smack some non-believers. There’s always a punching bag at the party, although the bag is rarely aware of its nature ( by the way, Nic, 1 x 10157 is 10157, not a googol [this is in response to a post way back on 27 Sep--just look for where the zeros go off the page]).
If this were a party, it would be one of the best. Especially since you could gurarantee a fight, and at least one indivual misplacing a pair of pants.
RAmen
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People, please… if you’re going to piss off a creationist, at least do it thoroughly by… Oh, I don’t know, writing a parody of the Lord’s Prayer:
Godless
Godless I am, and will have it to be
No deity shall look after me
Lead me not from this temptation
Religion and science have no reconciliation
Give me not my daily bread
On earth and truth I have fed
As I’d have it rather be
A mind that’s troubled, but free
And I will have myself to keep
My soul goes not to a keeper of sheep
On earth let it not be as in paradise
I’ll share the world with rats and mice
Forgive me not if I have wronged
For absolution I have not longed
Let time and reason judge me
For as those have it, it will be
If it is found that I have no worth
Return me promptly to the earth
And leave me to be a wild thing
Leave to the others all thinking
But if you find, as I believe you will
A mind not empty, but fulfilled
And if you find, as I believe you might
A heart not empty, but full, not light
Then accept me as I am
This Godless one you need not damn
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impressive.
.
RAmen
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“Gill, the Jew with his sly wit and clever, sometimes self-deprecating, humor;”–*cough*HER sly wit and clever, sometimes self-deprecating, humor*cough*
@SAM–awsome ripoff of the Lord’s Prayer.
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Sam, I am not worthy to post on the same hate-mail string as you. I thought I was pretty clever with my “Top Ten Reasons Why I Can’t Believe In God,” but “Godless” is in another league entirely.
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^^what SaucyWench said.
RAmen
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Nic, I hate to see you go, I have actually got it!
Sam, you’re not going to tick off a creationist with such hum~blog.
My God created the noodle. He gave each of us the freedom to choice what we do with it. I prefer to eat my noodles and love my Creator.
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If God really does love all of us, then would it matter what we truely believe in?
God gave us free will. If that was good enough for him, IT SHOULD BE GOOD ENOUGH FOR YOU!
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If for me a God were to exist, at times it would make things alot easier. Whenever i would go about my life I could do it with a purpose, a reason, and that reason would be to do right in the name of my God. But then i would have to think about which God? What makes this one better than that one? What if they all exist? What if none of them exist?
Not having a religion causes me to live my life for myself, not for any God, or any greater purpose, just so that I can do right by myself. Any God that I can contemplate being in existance would only want me to enjoy my life, and in doing so make sure that i do not cause suffering for others. If in my playing games on a sunday morning rather than going to church causes suffering for someone, then fine, punish me for it. But it doesnt does it? Living my life the way I try to, be enjoying myself and not causing pain to others seems to be the perfect life style. If there is a God, i have done nothing wrong and shouldn’t be punished for it. If there isnt a God i still spent my whole life enjoying myself and i would have no regrets.
Sorry if that post seems to make little sense, was thinking faster than i could type and its probably rather badly jumbled up.
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Aussie, gil, saucy, nyx and even that other guy… I’m totally blushing. I do try. Thank you. And now, a song poem, from the apostle John, to his lover Jesus (though, please, I actually didn’t write this with the thought that I wanted to offend people. It’s simply that I had a gay friend once ask me “what if Jesus was gay?” and so I thought “huh, what if he was…?” Then I remember somewhere in the bible John being referred to many times as “the one whom Jesus loved.” And so the poem was born. Oh, and it does make me think of creationism/evolution because I mean, why would a God make people gay if he didn’t want them to be? This seems like a nasty trick only something like evolution could pull off.):
Jesus According to John
With a kiss from Judas came my love’s dark day
But be certain my kisses never did betray
Sweet, sincere, and softly landed
None would be reprimanded
They say no woman could turn his head
must they have known I was in his bed?
No they wouldnt see,
that the hands that calmed the sea
Would be all over me
Oh how sweet the sound
when love for me in his words I found
I was there at the cross, at his feet, and in his eyes
do you know how slowly blood dries?
As slow as pain rises from my heart
Oh how much of me he was a part
Go from heaven to earth to hell and back
Take this for fact!
Water to wine, then god to man, then man to man
How could I make any understand?
That my kisses never did betray
And the reasons I cried that day
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