Do you think that by mocking God, you empower yourself or in anyway benefit your own happiness? Lets say I told you that all people go to either heaven, a good place, or hell, a bad place, when they die. If you said that you know that nothing happens when you die but that one just ceases to exist and it turns out you were right, then great, neither of us loses so it doesnt matter what I believe now does it? But if I was right and you were wrong, then you just took the biggest gamble with your soul. So why not stop misleading people and bringing in publice notability and fame for yourself. Jesus Christ doesn’t need you to believe in him. You need you to believe in him. I hope you will have read this with an open mind. I do apologize on behalf of my fellow Christians for anything they have done to alienate you.
-Jonathan Newman
Ahhh the veritable Pascal Sucker Bet rears its head once again.
If you are going to bet, bet responsibly!
http://www.jhuger.com/pascal
*grins*
>
I’ve heard this “gamble” argument too many times. They don’t get the other side which is what most people see. If you spend your whole life on the gamble that the heaven-hell thing is true, and you pass by having sex with who you will, and drinking and smoking and cussing at idiots that cut you off, and worst of all, getting up at the butt-crack of dawn to put on a suit and go worship a non-existent god on your day off… You lose. You lose the only life you will ever know by wasting it. The end. You are a fool. And, if they want to buy into that sad argument, we can say just as well, what if there is an FSM or Allah or Buddha, and you are wrong? You wasted your life only to lose on judgement day…
Wow, using Pascal’s Wager… how original. Breaking down the poetry and beauty inherent in a person’s beliefs (be it christian, atheist, or pastafanarian) into game theory does it a huge disservice. So much for God not playing dice.
wow, this was exactly the argument i was going to use to convince all these FSM-ers to become muslim.
Holy crap? I should believe in God to cover my own ass just in case? Your not a very good Christian, are you?
I find it startling that so many people are ok with worshiping god out of fear that he exists. Living in fear that there’s an invisible man that’ll throw you into eternal pain forever based on rules that made more sense hundreds of years ago than they do after we figured out basic physics and biology untill you die makes much more sense. If Jesus Christ doesn’t need us to believe in him, why do you?
there really is only one thing to be said:
Jesus aint comin home for Christmas.
Wow, it’s a good thing Pascal’s Wager convinced me to turn from a life of worshiping the FSM and convinced me to worship Jesus instead. I know that when I reach heaven God will respect my decision to worship him as a Christian God, even if he is really the Muslim God, or the Hindu gods, or even the FSM, because that is exactly what Pascal’s Wager says will happen! Oh wait…
Well, maybe God will respect my choice to believe in him because of game theory and not because of a truly deep seated faith in him! Or…maybe not.
So you believe in god - because you lack the ability to make a decision of your own? Believe in a higher power “just in case” he exists?
Sorry to tell you but that wouldn’t get you into some magical heaven, even if it existed. Christians are suppposed to believe because it’s right, not because they’re too chicken to question an obviously archaic, cruel, ignorant religion.
Grow a spine - and a brain, while you’re at it.
If Jesus is real and he really dies on the cross for my sins then he died along time ago and shortly before he died I really hope he knew was schizophrenic. You see its not Jesus’s fault. Its the idiots that follow the words of a crazy man.
It does matter now what you believe, becuase your people are trying to teach my kids that someone other than the FSM created the earth and that is wrong. Everyone know’s the truth is the FSM and only the FSM and I am tired of this jesus person and these darwinists.
what if the opposite is true? what if god tests us with faith to see if we will abandon our greatest gift, reason? and the sheep go to hell?
Pascal’s Wager is perfectly correct; unfortunately the true God is not your Jesus but Allah, the merciful, the benevolent, the compassionate…no, scratch that, the REALLY true God is Vishnu, who created the world by churning the sea of milk- um, no, that’s not right either, the truly TRUE God is Odin who hung on a tree for nine days and nights…oops, wrong again, my mistake, the ONE and ONLY reallyreallyreally TRUE God is…(to be continued)
“Jesus Christ doesn’t need you to believe in him.”
Maybe he does.. maybe he’s like tinkerbell.
See, if god kicks me into hell because I don’t believe that Jesus Christ is my savior (whatever that means), that’s a god with whom I would prefer not to spend the rest of eternity. In other words, I’d think he’s kind of a dick.
Oh, Jesus how I hate this argument. I’ve heard it sooooo many times that I just want to throw up all over the person who said it.
Seriously, isn’t that why Constantine didn’t get to go to heaven? I’m pretty sure comic books already solved this one.
Now i’m going to go reach up my own ass to check for a briefcase full of diamonds. What could I possibly lose.
Relax, EVERYONE!
God is real. Jesus too. And Moses, Mohammed, Vishnu and Buddha as well. The good part is they are totally cool, forgiving and benevolent.
In fact they have already forgiven you for everything bad you’ve ever done, and are just waiting to forgive you for what you’ve yet to do. They said to pass on that it’s all a learning process so just chill and enjoy it while you can. Worship you for a while.
Carry on.
/Reaches for another bowl of Devine Inspiration. (forgiven already)
Why is it that the ULTIMATE argument that even the nicest Christians can come up with is the concept of spiritual blackmail? I mean, really….”believe the way I believe or you’ll be punished, and you don’t REALLY wanna be punshed, do you?” Wow….Extortion at it’s FINEST. I’ve heard of mafia protection rackets that aren’t this effective.
“The facts on which the true believer bases his conclusions must not be derived from his experience or observation but from holy writ. . . . To rely on the evidence of the senses and of reason is heresy and treason.
. . . .
Thus the effectiveness of a doctrine should not be judged by its profundity, sublimity or the validity of the truths it embodies, but by how thoroughly it insulates the individual from his self and the world as it is. What Pascal said of an effective religion is true of any effective doctrine: It must be ‘contrary to nature, to common sense and to pleasure.’”
– Eric Hoffer, The True Believer, 1951.
Overly zealous religious people SCARE me, with their complete and utter lack of logical thinking. That sort of idiotic blind thinking is why there is so much violence, poverty, and need in the world today.
Obviously, the Lord Almighty doesn’t condone the use of SpellCheck, any more than he blesses the use of condoms or common sense. The uneducated responses that I’ve read here from outraged christians just reaffirm my opinion that religion is the one true source of evil in this world.
And that is why I proudly have a chrome Flying Spaghetti Monster emblem on my car, right above the bumper sticker that reads, “Please, Jesus, protect me from your followers!”
“The church has always been willing to swap off treasures in heaven for cash down.”
– Robert Green Ingersoll (1833-1899), American infidel and orator. Dictionary of Humorous Quotations, edited by Evan Esar (1949)
Actually, the apostle Paul said that, if Jesus never died and Christianity is false, then Christians are “of all men most miserable.” Pascal’s wager is actually contrary to the Bible. Oops.
…..
what if the opposite is true? what if god tests us with faith to see if we will abandon our greatest gift, reason? and the sheep go to hell?
…..
That was just so beautiful. I think I can sleep happy now.
if all the christians were as nice as this one, maybe they’d have better luck getting cool people to come over on sunday. i may not be able to believe in god just because it’s expeditious, but i do appreciate this guy’s concern for my everlasting soul.
What if we flip this around? If God doesn’t exist, hey, no harm no foul, you were wrong. However, if god is all loving and all that jazz, surely it would forgive us of our misdeeds. An omnipotent being would surely understand why we did what we did. All those years spent kneeling and living in fear, passing up the great opportunities because of your irrational worry that some one might smite you; all for nothing because God says, “Hey, I know everything, and am a being of pure love. I forgive you, come on in to heaven, there’s lots of beer and sex up here”
If Jesus is God and yet a man, then did God save himself for himself? In other words, Jesus was saved…by Jesus, and when he died, he passed judgement on himself and found himself to be worthy of the heaven that he himself had created for mankind and so was restored to the bosom of his father… who was, in reality, Jesus. You’re right, this whole Christianity thing totally rocks! Good thing I’ve already been baptized and therefore saved…by Jesus and God, who are the same person.
As if hedging your bets will pass as true faith and get you through the pearly gates.
A true christian works through acts of love: caring for the sick, helping the poor, fixing the broken down porch of an elderly couple, seeing that people have the right and freedom to vote - former President Jimmy Carter is a true christian. You can see it in his actions and the lack of words of comdemnation. The folks who proclaim to be christians and critize are nothing more than bags of hot air.
DuoX, Thank you so much for that link. I’m sure you can imagine just how many times that argument has been used on the different message boards that one can post on. It never ceases to amuse and surprise me. I have never seen that site and it will certainly come in handy.
You can’t pick and choose the science you like: you can’t root for anthropology and paleontology and shout down biology. The scientific method is used the same way in all sciences (when it is good science), so if you choose to reject science in certain areas where the findings disturb you, then I can respect that. However, please stay away from our history and our doctors as they are clearly of the devil.
Thank you and have a nice day. Oh, and get off our computers.
-Red Out
Crap. Posted in the wrong thread somehow. Maybe I should get off our computers.
you guys are crazy you are beliving in FOOD. do realize this? you think that whoever created this world is a Italian FOOD dish that is rediculous. if you ask me its just a sorry excuse because are scarred to actually believe that God exists and he created the world.
@hey
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It sounds to me like you are the one that is afraid. Why do you fear the FSM so? Food allergy perhaps?
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To tell you the truth, I’m very scared that the Christian God (I assume that is who you meant by “God”) is real. He’s one seriously mean and vindictive SOB. However, the fact that he hasn’t struck me down with a bolt of lightning yet means that either he doesn’t exist, or he doesn’t give a shit. Either way, I’m in the clear.
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Lighten up and have some pasta.
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OEJ
Hey, hey,
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‘you guys are crazy you are beliving in FOOD.’
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.
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Quite a thin fellow, are you?
“Do you think that by mocking God, you empower yourself or in anyway benefit your own happiness? ”
.
Yes
“Lets say I told you that all people go to either heaven, a good place, or hell, a bad place, when they die. If you said that you know that nothing happens when you die but that one just ceases to exist and it turns out you were right, then great, neither of us loses so it doesnt matter what I believe now does it?”
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Thats the kind of moral cowardice I’d expect from a Christian!
“Jesus Christ doesn’t need you to believe in him. You need you to believe in him”
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If thats the case why do you fools try so hard to force your beliefs on others?
Taking the same quote from Jonathan Newman as Darwin’s Monkey:
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‘Lets say I told you that all people go to either heaven, a good place, or hell, a bad place, when they die. If you said that you know that nothing happens when you die but that one just ceases to exist and it turns out you were right, then great, neither of us loses so it doesnt matter what I believe now does it?’
.
This reminds me of a story I heard a couple of days ago in an interview between Ken Ham (creationist, author of ‘The Lie: Evolution’ and all-round God-fancier) and Carl Denby (creationist, admirer of ‘The Lie: Evolution’ and all-round Ken Ham fancier). Carl tells of a time in his career (he’s been an air traffic controller for years) when he was spending hours in a cockpit talking with the pilot and co-pilot. He found that the three of them were all Christians. As they discussed their faith, one of them told Carl of Ken’s book, which destroyed Carl’s fanciful preumption that science and Christianity could get along together. Carl read the book, threw science out of the window and filled up all the space he’d thereby cleared in his brain with more religion.
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Heartwarming, isn’t it?
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Hypothetical situation. The plane’s going down. I’m a passenger. Things aren’t going well. Now, whom do I want in the cockpit?
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Option (a): Three guys who’ll try to rescue the plane but who are also thinking ‘Well, if we can’t rescue it, I guess that’s God’s will! We’e going to heaven after all, and so are the passengers - as long as they’re Christian.’
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Option (b): Three guys who’ll do every damn thing they can do to rescue that plane because they recognise that they haven’t got a shred of evidence that there’s anything after death and that it’d be criminally irresponsible to treat a living person in your care as though you knew what was going to happen to them after theirs?
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I suspect there’s a case to be considered that people who believe in an afterlife should be barred from jobs in which they have responsibility for other peoples’ lives. (I know George W. Bush and Tony Blair read all my posts with great interest, so I’m sure they’ll take this point to heart.)
What if neither of us are right but somebody in the other two thirds of the world’s population is?
And your apology helps, it really does, but the ER helped a whole lot more (and most of the people there were smart enough to realize that restricting their life for some stupid religion was kind of silly).
The atheist, since his own childish theories hold no merit of their own on which to stand, and since the absolute truth of the Supreme Lord cannot be challenged directly by any means, all too often mentions such bizarre red herrings as “spaghetti monster,” “mermaids,” “sky faeries,” and a myriad of other ridiculous straw-man arguments that he manufactures in his fertile imagination. The straw-man argument is perhaps the most shameful and childish of all of the logical fallacies, and is among the atheist’s very favorites.
The fact is that the ungodly atheist is afraid to face the issue directly, and the issue is simply that God’s personal and intelligent plan for the highly structured, ordered, and variegated universe that we all experience every day makes much more sense as its ultimate origin than such silly, mythological concepts as “chance,” “randomness,” and “evolution theory.” His fear stems from the fact that he knows, deep down inside, that he is wrong.
It is physically, logically, and mathematically impossible to derive life from nonliving chemicals, personality from some imaginary, impersonal system of “chance,” or any amount of greater intelligence from any amount of lesser intelligence. The conclusion is that all life comes from life, all personality comes from personality, and all relative intelligence comes from absolute intelligence.
There is not so much as one single example, in the experience of any scientist throughout all time, of one species being observed producing a member of another species. Conversely, every nanosecond, every millisecond, every instant, every moment, every second, every minute, every hour, every day, every week, every month, every year, every decade, every lifetime, every generation, every century, every millennium, every epoch, every aeon, every era, and every age, since time immemorial, and right down the line, to this very red-hot nanosecond, what we observe, each and every time, without fail, adjustment, or substitution, is that each respective species produces members of its very own, very same species. There is absolutely not so much as a single example, throughout the entire history of all time, of crossover from one species to any other species. There is none, none, none — none at all.
Since scientific method is based, first and foremost, upon observation, and the very lynchpin of “evolution theory,” (species crossover), has never been observed by anyone, ever, the only rational conclusion is that the theory is 100% unscientific.
Only the insane can neglect these hard facts and insist upon the foolish, illogical convolutions of “evolution theory” instead.
More information:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=BxYacGWRlMw
Ah, but Bobby would be at the right noodle of the FSM, and you would be crying.