Comments on: I just find it interesting http://www.venganza.org/2006/07/25/i-just-find-it-interesting/ Sat, 20 Mar 2010 06:34:22 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Roy D Carlson http://www.venganza.org/2006/07/25/i-just-find-it-interesting/#comment-821260 Roy D Carlson Tue, 02 Jun 2009 08:13:09 +0000 http://www.venganza.org/wordpress/2006/07/25/i-just-find-it-interesting/#comment-821260 Wow, It's been...2 years since I bothered to read any of this. My how time flies. Let me make a few defining statements: 1) "Fundie" - Taken from the term "fundamental", which was (is) a Christian group born out of the restoration movement, or at least is closely tied to the restoration movement. I DO NOT and WILL NOT EVER EVER EVER support, follow, or adhere to such a movement, or to any group that calls themselves "fundamental", because they are deceived. They believe that the Bible is the inerrant Word of God, yet they don't believe in simple concepts like "real presence" or what we Lutherans call "means of grace." No, sirs (and perhaps madams) I am not a "fundie". For you or anyone to generalize in that way is simply...well it's just wrong. But then, should I expect any less from people who hate God? 2) When you hear someone say "Christ died on the cross", he is not trying to imply that Christ was the ONLY person to ever die on the a cross! That is just silly to even assume. Shoot, making such a dumb statement only shows your complete disregard for objectiveness, and leads me to wonder what science or system of discovery you DO cling to. I mean, really. Is science OBjective or SUBjective? If it is objective, than your insult only serves to bring you down. If science is subjective, than it isn't really much of a method, is it? If history teaches that a man was put to death by lethal injection back in the 60's while serving a death sentence at "The Rock," does that mean that he was the ONLY one put to death this way? Both science AND history can show otherwise, right? Peter and other apostles were certainly put to death on crosses - that is common knowledge. So what's your point? 3) "They were as nonexistent in the past as they are now." Can we be at least somewhat reasonable here? I mean, can you put aside your presupposition that YOU are right and I am wrong for one moment? It is what you are asking me to do right? I mean, think about this...What gives YOU the arrogant right to criticize me because of my presuppositions while at the same time you live by at least as many presuppositions yourself? Did you ever stop to think that maybe YOUR presup's are wrong? I mean, if you are going to have the balls to say to my face that I am wrong - at least have the balls to admit that YOU could be wrong. Because if you can't do that, then you are no better than us "fundies"! And don't throw all this "science has proved" crap at me. That just shows that you are stuck in your worldview and I have no respect for that. You are only a human being - limited in understanding and skewed by your past. Accept that basic truth and then I'll have some respect. It all boils down to ultimate authority. My ultimate authority is not science, and it is not myself. There is nothing you or anyone can do to change that. You would have to rewrite the past 33 years of my life before you could even begin to scratch the surface of my worldview - and that's just the beginning. I also admit that I can't change you. Your ultimate authority is yourself - it is why we "fundies" call the sinful human nature an "inward" nature - because it wants nothing more than to make itself a god and to serve itself. But what good is a god that can do nothing more than serve itself, right? Yet that IS your UA. And you can never understand me or those of us who are truly NOT fundamentalists - just Christians - though you can certainly judge us by our works. Even you possess the ability to separate the "sheep" from the "goats", right? If there are "true" Christians, you can certainly understand how they are supposed to act, right? Quit basing your understanding of what Christianity is all about by looking at the freaks! We don't all stand on street corners with big crosses condemning everything that doesn't fit our mold, you know (using an example of a real person in Lincoln NE who, daily, stands on a street shouting out condemnation and hellfire...he don't go to my church). There are reasons behind why we believe what we believe - and I can tell you as a seminarian, it is NOT because we are all stupid or weak minded. If you want us to be reasonable with you, put some effort into being reasonable with us. Throwing out random insults and horribly distasteful comments just to prop yourselves up...I mean look what vultures do. They circle around their prey waiting for it to fall, while at the same time "hurling insults" at it trying to take its morale and its strength away. Are you any different? You should be. You know vultures are prey too. There are animals that will trick the vulture then pounce on him and destroy him. Wow, It’s been…2 years since I bothered to read any of this. My how time flies.

Let me make a few defining statements:

1) “Fundie” – Taken from the term “fundamental”, which was (is) a Christian group born out of the restoration movement, or at least is closely tied to the restoration movement. I DO NOT and WILL NOT EVER EVER EVER support, follow, or adhere to such a movement, or to any group that calls themselves “fundamental”, because they are deceived. They believe that the Bible is the inerrant Word of God, yet they don’t believe in simple concepts like “real presence” or what we Lutherans call “means of grace.” No, sirs (and perhaps madams) I am not a “fundie”. For you or anyone to generalize in that way is simply…well it’s just wrong. But then, should I expect any less from people who hate God?

2) When you hear someone say “Christ died on the cross”, he is not trying to imply that Christ was the ONLY person to ever die on the a cross! That is just silly to even assume. Shoot, making such a dumb statement only shows your complete disregard for objectiveness, and leads me to wonder what science or system of discovery you DO cling to. I mean, really. Is science OBjective or SUBjective? If it is objective, than your insult only serves to bring you down. If science is subjective, than it isn’t really much of a method, is it? If history teaches that a man was put to death by lethal injection back in the 60’s while serving a death sentence at “The Rock,” does that mean that he was the ONLY one put to death this way? Both science AND history can show otherwise, right? Peter and other apostles were certainly put to death on crosses – that is common knowledge. So what’s your point?

3) “They were as nonexistent in the past as they are now.” Can we be at least somewhat reasonable here? I mean, can you put aside your presupposition that YOU are right and I am wrong for one moment? It is what you are asking me to do right? I mean, think about this…What gives YOU the arrogant right to criticize me because of my presuppositions while at the same time you live by at least as many presuppositions yourself? Did you ever stop to think that maybe YOUR presup’s are wrong? I mean, if you are going to have the balls to say to my face that I am wrong – at least have the balls to admit that YOU could be wrong. Because if you can’t do that, then you are no better than us “fundies”! And don’t throw all this “science has proved” crap at me. That just shows that you are stuck in your worldview and I have no respect for that. You are only a human being – limited in understanding and skewed by your past. Accept that basic truth and then I’ll have some respect.

It all boils down to ultimate authority. My ultimate authority is not science, and it is not myself. There is nothing you or anyone can do to change that. You would have to rewrite the past 33 years of my life before you could even begin to scratch the surface of my worldview – and that’s just the beginning. I also admit that I can’t change you. Your ultimate authority is yourself – it is why we “fundies” call the sinful human nature an “inward” nature – because it wants nothing more than to make itself a god and to serve itself. But what good is a god that can do nothing more than serve itself, right? Yet that IS your UA. And you can never understand me or those of us who are truly NOT fundamentalists – just Christians – though you can certainly judge us by our works. Even you possess the ability to separate the “sheep” from the “goats”, right? If there are “true” Christians, you can certainly understand how they are supposed to act, right? Quit basing your understanding of what Christianity is all about by looking at the freaks! We don’t all stand on street corners with big crosses condemning everything that doesn’t fit our mold, you know (using an example of a real person in Lincoln NE who, daily, stands on a street shouting out condemnation and hellfire…he don’t go to my church). There are reasons behind why we believe what we believe – and I can tell you as a seminarian, it is NOT because we are all stupid or weak minded.

If you want us to be reasonable with you, put some effort into being reasonable with us. Throwing out random insults and horribly distasteful comments just to prop yourselves up…I mean look what vultures do. They circle around their prey waiting for it to fall, while at the same time “hurling insults” at it trying to take its morale and its strength away. Are you any different? You should be. You know vultures are prey too. There are animals that will trick the vulture then pounce on him and destroy him.

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]]> By: El Peatieablo http://www.venganza.org/2006/07/25/i-just-find-it-interesting/#comment-184404 El Peatieablo Sun, 02 Sep 2007 02:34:00 +0000 http://www.venganza.org/wordpress/2006/07/25/i-just-find-it-interesting/#comment-184404 Pastafarianism is an equation? Science does not use supernatural explanations and is allowed to be freely thought about. Religion uses supernatural explanations and thinking about it seems to have gotten a few people beheaded, tortured, burned at the stake, hand, drawn, and quartered (take your pick) I don’t know what scientific method you were taught at school (probably a christian one), but I have looked all over for one different from the one taught at my school and haven’t found one, this leads me to believe that if there is another scientific method, it probably isn’t “the true scientific method”. Ever hear of Last Thursdayism? I know that “what you have not seen, that is what existed before you, really existed at all” because it is the only logical and natural way for it to have happened (well, without getting into the possibilities that some dude took the time to make a fossil or something exactly the same way as many others and also made sure that the material he/she (though dude would tend to imply he) used to make said fossil had just the right isotopic structure too fool a bunch of scientists, but you don’t let us say that some dude just wrote some junk in the bible, so that wouldn’t be a very fair argument would it?). “Where science is good is when it is used to do what it is good at doing” That’s totally going in my book of favourite quotes. “So science, which was once a philosophy (even used by many Christian philosophers), still IS a philosophy” So this shirt that I just threw into Lake Superior, which was once dry, (and even worn by one Pastafarian philosopher) still IS dry? “Today the idea (yes philosophy) of no intelligent design will be pushed, tomorrow it will be disproved” The thing about science is, it changes (yes evolves) with the evidence, not some nut job, and the changes cannot be predicted until the evidence is gathered. You are right, the saving grace of this jesus fellow have never changed. They were as nonexistent in the past as they are now. I don’t really even know what you are trying to say with the rest of that paragraph, but I think you are trying to threaten the continued structural integrity of my cranial region. “But we WERE there to witness Christ and his death.” I don’t remember that… must have been sleeping (or maybe a couple thousand years before I was born). Did these crumb of which you speak lead to the cross before the first society began to use crosses as a form of punishment? I do find it odd that a fundie is proposing freedom. Hey Roy! Do you think maybe I could have the freedom to have science taught in a science classroom? Pastafarianism is an equation?

Science does not use supernatural explanations and is allowed to be freely thought about. Religion uses supernatural explanations and thinking about it seems to have gotten a few people beheaded, tortured, burned at the stake, hand, drawn, and quartered (take your pick)

I don’t know what scientific method you were taught at school (probably a christian one), but I have looked all over for one different from the one taught at my school and haven’t found one, this leads me to believe that if there is another scientific method, it probably isn’t “the true scientific method”.

Ever hear of Last Thursdayism? I know that “what you have not seen, that is what existed before you, really existed at all” because it is the only logical and natural way for it to have happened (well, without getting into the possibilities that some dude took the time to make a fossil or something exactly the same way as many others and also made sure that the material he/she (though dude would tend to imply he) used to make said fossil had just the right isotopic structure too fool a bunch of scientists, but you don’t let us say that some dude just wrote some junk in the bible, so that wouldn’t be a very fair argument would it?).

“Where science is good is when it is used to do what it is good at doing” That’s totally going in my book of favourite quotes.

“So science, which was once a philosophy (even used by many Christian philosophers), still IS a philosophy” So this shirt that I just threw into Lake Superior, which was once dry, (and even worn by one Pastafarian philosopher) still IS dry?

“Today the idea (yes philosophy) of no intelligent design will be pushed, tomorrow it will be disproved” The thing about science is, it changes (yes evolves) with the evidence, not some nut job, and the changes cannot be predicted until the evidence is gathered.

You are right, the saving grace of this jesus fellow have never changed. They were as nonexistent in the past as they are now. I don’t really even know what you are trying to say with the rest of that paragraph, but I think you are trying to threaten the continued structural integrity of my cranial region.

“But we WERE there to witness Christ and his death.” I don’t remember that… must have been sleeping (or maybe a couple thousand years before I was born).

Did these crumb of which you speak lead to the cross before the first society began to use crosses as a form of punishment?

I do find it odd that a fundie is proposing freedom. Hey Roy! Do you think maybe I could have the freedom to have science taught in a science classroom?

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]]> By: gill http://www.venganza.org/2006/07/25/i-just-find-it-interesting/#comment-9908 gill Sun, 29 Oct 2006 20:35:59 +0000 http://www.venganza.org/wordpress/2006/07/25/i-just-find-it-interesting/#comment-9908 Ah, I’m late to the debate! The stupid thread vanished on me… - “Why are you people so close minded? Why can’t the possibility even exist in your mind? Why?”—Pot, meet kettle. Why oh why can’t the possibility of some OTHER religion—or NO religion—exist in your mind? - “You so easily and wholeheartedly give into a system of beliefs that are all based on what you can see, and you use it to deny what you cannot see. Don’t you see the foolishness in that? Don’t you? Don’t you??”—Way to overuse the question mark. Now then, don’t YOU see the foolishness in basing your beliefs on what you cannot even find evidence for, much less see? (Yah, I totally just insulted my own religion there, but what the hell! Unlike you, I can I admit I might be wrong.) BTW, the ‘don’t you? Don’t you?? Don’t you???????!?!?!@#$@%???????2145’ thing does not help your case, I’m afraid. - “you would not despise God.” -Who here despises god?? Some of us don’t believe in him, but if you don’t believe in him then you can’t very well despise him, can you? - “I never called you a demon, gill, those were your words and your conclusions. Some science-minded people you are, jumping to conclusions before you even weigh the evidence.”—no, but you DID insinuate that my beliefs weren’t ‘true’ because they’re not yours by commenting that even demons can believe in god. (Once again, I say that being a demon would be way cooler then being a human.) Also, that was sarcasm. Also, stop being so darn serious and grow a sense of humor. - “Well here’s what your creater says “have your wisdom and your great knowledge. Use it to try and make me disappear. But in the end, every knee will bow, and oh yes, every tongue will confess, including yours.””--…..*gasp* YOU KNOW WHAT GOD SAYS?! Oh, wait, I’m sorry, you get upset when someone tries to crack a joke or two. Well, pal, if you can’t stand to hear the opinions of people who don’t agree with you, then why did you ever post at all? Maybe it was so you could rant and rave and hopefully, as you said, ‘change someone’s mind into agreeing with YOU because you so obviously have to be right?’ - A word of advice: don’t ever start whining about how stupid and foolish your opponents are being. Don’t call me names, refute my arguments; otherwise, you sound like an immature two year old who doesn’t HAVE any arguments but needs to argue anyway. - Running away, are you? Why do they always feel the need to flee when the argument’s getting good, I wonder? - Lastly: why does all of this bother you? So some people haven’t found god the way you want them to. How does that affect your life!? You seem so devastated to learn that there are others in this world who look at things differently then you do; do you really think your god—wait, that’s God with a capital G ‘cause he’s really gonna get so offended if some person doesn’t capitalize his name—wants you to go around trying to convert others into a faith that doesn’t work for them, just so he can brag about how many followers he has? I think god gave you your faith so that YOU personally could use it to be happy….not use it to make others miserable andor annoyed. But then again, what do I know, I’m just a scientifically-minded heathen who STILL won’t become Christian. (The nerve!) Ah, I’m late to the debate! The stupid thread vanished on me…
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“Why are you people so close minded? Why can’t the possibility even exist in your mind? Why?”—Pot, meet kettle. Why oh why can’t the possibility of some OTHER religion—or NO religion—exist in your mind?
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“You so easily and wholeheartedly give into a system of beliefs that are all based on what you can see, and you use it to deny what you cannot see. Don’t you see the foolishness in that? Don’t you? Don’t you??”—Way to overuse the question mark. Now then, don’t YOU see the foolishness in basing your beliefs on what you cannot even find evidence for, much less see? (Yah, I totally just insulted my own religion there, but what the hell! Unlike you, I can I admit I might be wrong.) BTW, the ‘don’t you? Don’t you?? Don’t you???????!?!?!@#$@%???????2145’ thing does not help your case, I’m afraid.
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“you would not despise God.” -Who here despises god?? Some of us don’t believe in him, but if you don’t believe in him then you can’t very well despise him, can you?
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“I never called you a demon, gill, those were your words and your conclusions. Some science-minded people you are, jumping to conclusions before you even weigh the evidence.”—no, but you DID insinuate that my beliefs weren’t ‘true’ because they’re not yours by commenting that even demons can believe in god. (Once again, I say that being a demon would be way cooler then being a human.) Also, that was sarcasm. Also, stop being so darn serious and grow a sense of humor.
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“Well here’s what your creater says “have your wisdom and your great knowledge. Use it to try and make me disappear. But in the end, every knee will bow, and oh yes, every tongue will confess, including yours.””–…..*gasp* YOU KNOW WHAT GOD SAYS?! Oh, wait, I’m sorry, you get upset when someone tries to crack a joke or two. Well, pal, if you can’t stand to hear the opinions of people who don’t agree with you, then why did you ever post at all? Maybe it was so you could rant and rave and hopefully, as you said, ‘change someone’s mind into agreeing with YOU because you so obviously have to be right?’
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A word of advice: don’t ever start whining about how stupid and foolish your opponents are being. Don’t call me names, refute my arguments; otherwise, you sound like an immature two year old who doesn’t HAVE any arguments but needs to argue anyway.
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Running away, are you? Why do they always feel the need to flee when the argument’s getting good, I wonder?
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Lastly: why does all of this bother you? So some people haven’t found god the way you want them to. How does that affect your life!? You seem so devastated to learn that there are others in this world who look at things differently then you do; do you really think your god—wait, that’s God with a capital G ‘cause he’s really gonna get so offended if some person doesn’t capitalize his name—wants you to go around trying to convert others into a faith that doesn’t work for them, just so he can brag about how many followers he has? I think god gave you your faith so that YOU personally could use it to be happy….not use it to make others miserable andor annoyed. But then again, what do I know, I’m just a scientifically-minded heathen who STILL won’t become Christian. (The nerve!)

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]]> By: J http://www.venganza.org/2006/07/25/i-just-find-it-interesting/#comment-9437 J Fri, 27 Oct 2006 12:34:33 +0000 http://www.venganza.org/wordpress/2006/07/25/i-just-find-it-interesting/#comment-9437 Every time I try to get away from this site, I just get sucked back in. (Once embraced by His Noodly Appendage, there is no turning back.) . I can see I'll have to revisit this thread tonight and read all of the posts made in the last couple of days properly. . Just one thing now, quickly. Roy, somewhere above you wrote: . 'If only one person came to faith by what i wrote, then my mission has been accomplished' . I'd just like to acknowledge that I respect this. Not your faith, I'm afraid, for although I sympathise with it, I reason it to be groundless and undeserving of respect. But I respect that you are, at least, faithful *to* your faith. We meet a lot of people who are Christians but who don't seem to care whether we are Christians or not. This confuses me - surely a Christian believes I'm going to hell if I don't believe in God? Any Christian familiar with the story of the prodigal son 'knows' that God values previously wayward people who return to the fold above virtually everything else. . You, Roy, at least have sufficient conviction and courage to put your actions where your scripture is. . Of course, that's one of the things that really worries me, because I'm absolutely convinced that your scriptures are not something to base a deeply-held world view on. And that's why I will almost certainly be back to discuss this later. . I hope your faith (or, better still, your curiosity) won't let you give up on us just yet... Every time I try to get away from this site, I just get sucked back in. (Once embraced by His Noodly Appendage, there is no turning back.)
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I can see I’ll have to revisit this thread tonight and read all of the posts made in the last couple of days properly.
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Just one thing now, quickly. Roy, somewhere above you wrote:
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‘If only one person came to faith by what i wrote, then my mission has been accomplished’
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I’d just like to acknowledge that I respect this. Not your faith, I’m afraid, for although I sympathise with it, I reason it to be groundless and undeserving of respect. But I respect that you are, at least, faithful *to* your faith. We meet a lot of people who are Christians but who don’t seem to care whether we are Christians or not. This confuses me – surely a Christian believes I’m going to hell if I don’t believe in God? Any Christian familiar with the story of the prodigal son ‘knows’ that God values previously wayward people who return to the fold above virtually everything else.
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You, Roy, at least have sufficient conviction and courage to put your actions where your scripture is.
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Of course, that’s one of the things that really worries me, because I’m absolutely convinced that your scriptures are not something to base a deeply-held world view on. And that’s why I will almost certainly be back to discuss this later.
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I hope your faith (or, better still, your curiosity) won’t let you give up on us just yet…

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]]> By: One Eyed Jack http://www.venganza.org/2006/07/25/i-just-find-it-interesting/#comment-9426 One Eyed Jack Fri, 27 Oct 2006 11:42:01 +0000 http://www.venganza.org/wordpress/2006/07/25/i-just-find-it-interesting/#comment-9426 Roy D Carlson, . Why do you belittle my faith? I have faith. I believe in the FSM. It takes more faith to follow a radical god than a mainstream, popular god. It's easy to go with the flow. Try swimming against the current once in a while. . I can accept the possibility that the Christian god may be real. I see no proof of it, but like all things, it has the 'potential' to be true. Why can you not see the same potential in the FSM? . We are not the close minded ones. You are the one that cannot accept the possibility that we may be right and you may be wrong. No need to convert to FSM. All I ask is that you understand that Jehovah, Yahweh, Vishnu, FSM, and the Great Green Arkleseizure all have the potential to be real. . OEJ, aspiring FSM Theologian Roy D Carlson,
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Why do you belittle my faith? I have faith. I believe in the FSM. It takes more faith to follow a radical god than a mainstream, popular god. It’s easy to go with the flow. Try swimming against the current once in a while.
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I can accept the possibility that the Christian god may be real. I see no proof of it, but like all things, it has the ‘potential’ to be true. Why can you not see the same potential in the FSM?
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We are not the close minded ones. You are the one that cannot accept the possibility that we may be right and you may be wrong. No need to convert to FSM. All I ask is that you understand that Jehovah, Yahweh, Vishnu, FSM, and the Great Green Arkleseizure all have the potential to be real.
.
OEJ, aspiring FSM Theologian

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]]> By: The Aussie http://www.venganza.org/2006/07/25/i-just-find-it-interesting/#comment-9425 The Aussie Fri, 27 Oct 2006 11:41:32 +0000 http://www.venganza.org/wordpress/2006/07/25/i-just-find-it-interesting/#comment-9425 Roy, you can call us close minded, and we can serve that claim right back. . The simple fact here is that we (well, the more pedantic among us) are either scientists or hold a skeptical viewpoint. Now what this means to us, is that we simply like a logical argument behind what we believe, and given the choice, we will tend toward something that we can either test, or at the least reason. . To us, God is a dillemma. How can we test for a god? There is no lab test that lets us do so. . How can we explain it's actions? Compassion? Sin? Hell, even Gnosticisms explanations (big fight, good V bad) are opposed by observable nature. . The violence that marrs the world can not be justified as the action of any decent being. . Which then begs the question of course, why are we supposed to respect something like that? . You say we always resort to science. Of course. We like logic here. . Science is merely a way of looking at the world logically. We can't verify something, why should we believe it? . Before you say the same thing about evolution as what I am saying about faith, I would like you to remember the existance of microevolution has been confirmed beyond doubt of all who have even the slightest understanding of the theory behind it. While macroevolution is a little harder to picture, it does follow the exact same mechanism, merely over a longer time frame. . What evidence we have does not disprove macroevolution. We cannot prove it conclusively, put at least it is an explanation that follows a logical structure of the same form as a quantifiable mechanism. . We have some small chance of explaining what we see through science. We don't through god. For me, that iswhat it all comes down too. Roy, you can call us close minded, and we can serve that claim right back.
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The simple fact here is that we (well, the more pedantic among us) are either scientists or hold a skeptical viewpoint. Now what this means to us, is that we simply like a logical argument behind what we believe, and given the choice, we will tend toward something that we can either test, or at the least reason.
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To us, God is a dillemma.
How can we test for a god? There is no lab test that lets us do so.
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How can we explain it’s actions? Compassion? Sin? Hell, even Gnosticisms explanations (big fight, good V bad) are opposed by observable nature.
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The violence that marrs the world can not be justified as the action of any decent being.
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Which then begs the question of course, why are we supposed to respect something like that?
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You say we always resort to science. Of course. We like logic here.
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Science is merely a way of looking at the world logically. We can’t verify something, why should we believe it?
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Before you say the same thing about evolution as what I am saying about faith, I would like you to remember the existance of microevolution has been confirmed beyond doubt of all who have even the slightest understanding of the theory behind it.
While macroevolution is a little harder to picture, it does follow the exact same mechanism, merely over a longer time frame.
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What evidence we have does not disprove macroevolution.
We cannot prove it conclusively, put at least it is an explanation that follows a logical structure of the same form as a quantifiable mechanism.
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We have some small chance of explaining what we see through science. We don’t through god. For me, that iswhat it all comes down too.

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]]> By: nikkiee http://www.venganza.org/2006/07/25/i-just-find-it-interesting/#comment-9404 nikkiee Fri, 27 Oct 2006 09:56:05 +0000 http://www.venganza.org/wordpress/2006/07/25/i-just-find-it-interesting/#comment-9404 Bloody bigots! Bloody bigots!

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]]> By: nikkiee http://www.venganza.org/2006/07/25/i-just-find-it-interesting/#comment-9389 nikkiee Fri, 27 Oct 2006 07:19:09 +0000 http://www.venganza.org/wordpress/2006/07/25/i-just-find-it-interesting/#comment-9389 "Why, knowing that evolutionary theory is no theory at all?.................. .........To completly or even partially accept the evolutionary theory REQUIRES that the person completly deny the possibility of something beyond the material. Personally I think that is very short sighted. Thus this is where I coin the term “bad science.”........" Wonder why we have sucessfully used flies, worms and rats (mainly) for biomedical research into diseases and come up with a better and often a new understanding of these as well as successfull treatments (cures)? The reason these organisms are used (other than the fact we don't get a lot of humans volnteering to be guinea pigs) is based on an understanding of evolutionary relationships between these different organisms and humans. (gene simularities) Also I do not believe it was you who coined the term "bad science". “Why, knowing that evolutionary theory is no theory at all?………………
………To completly or even partially accept the evolutionary theory REQUIRES that the person completly deny the possibility of something beyond the material. Personally I think that is very short sighted. Thus this is where I coin the term “bad science.”……..”

Wonder why we have sucessfully used flies, worms and rats (mainly) for biomedical research into diseases and come up with a better and often a new understanding of these as well as successfull treatments (cures)? The reason these organisms are used (other than the fact we don’t get a lot of humans volnteering to be guinea pigs) is based on an understanding of evolutionary relationships between these different organisms and humans. (gene simularities)
Also I do not believe it was you who coined the term “bad science”.

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]]> By: nikkiee http://www.venganza.org/2006/07/25/i-just-find-it-interesting/#comment-9385 nikkiee Fri, 27 Oct 2006 06:54:48 +0000 http://www.venganza.org/wordpress/2006/07/25/i-just-find-it-interesting/#comment-9385 Roy D Carlson You sir, by your own hand, bring your belief system more disrepute than any of your adversaries could ever dream of. Roy D Carlson
You sir, by your own hand, bring your belief system more disrepute than any of your adversaries could ever dream of.

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]]> By: nikkiee http://www.venganza.org/2006/07/25/i-just-find-it-interesting/#comment-9370 nikkiee Fri, 27 Oct 2006 05:20:49 +0000 http://www.venganza.org/wordpress/2006/07/25/i-just-find-it-interesting/#comment-9370 ps. "When you stand for something that does not stand on its own, you stand for nothing." The disease cures discovered through years of scientidic research seem to be coming along quite well. A great product of our "beliefs". Let's hope you never require one so as you won't feel like a "hypocrates". It's been a pleasure. ps. “When you stand for something that does not stand on its own, you stand for nothing.”
The disease cures discovered through years of scientidic research seem to be coming along quite well. A great product of our “beliefs”. Let’s hope you never require one so as you won’t feel like a “hypocrates”.
It’s been a pleasure.

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]]> By: nikkiee http://www.venganza.org/2006/07/25/i-just-find-it-interesting/#comment-9369 nikkiee Fri, 27 Oct 2006 05:11:28 +0000 http://www.venganza.org/wordpress/2006/07/25/i-just-find-it-interesting/#comment-9369 @Roy D Carlson Anger at not being able to convert someone to your own christian belief? What about all the other religions? Do you feel this same anger at not being able to convince them? "Onward christian soldiers marching unto war" as usual !!! You also appear to have a fundmental misunderstanding of the differences between science and theology. How would you feel if I told you that I was bought up as a Hindu? How insulting and intolerant of you to declare yours is the only true god. "Why are you people so close minded?" By the way, exactly what did you expect when you posted on this site. When I re-read your posts the term "narcism" springs to mind. Look up the correct meaning of the term in a dictionary. @Roy D Carlson
Anger at not being able to convert someone to your own christian belief? What about all the other religions? Do you feel this same anger at not being able to convince them?
“Onward christian soldiers marching unto war” as usual !!! You also appear to have a fundmental misunderstanding of the differences between science and theology. How would you feel if I told you that I was bought up as a Hindu?
How insulting and intolerant of you to declare yours is the only true god.
“Why are you people so close minded?”
By the way, exactly what did you expect when you posted on this site. When I re-read your posts the term “narcism” springs to mind. Look up the correct meaning of the term in a dictionary.

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]]> By: Roy D Carlson http://www.venganza.org/2006/07/25/i-just-find-it-interesting/#comment-9360 Roy D Carlson Fri, 27 Oct 2006 03:41:51 +0000 http://www.venganza.org/wordpress/2006/07/25/i-just-find-it-interesting/#comment-9360 Why are you people so close minded? Why can't the possibility even exist in your mind? Why? Must everything be answered with science? Are you that dull? As the very faith I believe in states "God has made foolish the wisdom of the world..." and "the wisdom of the wise shall be made dull..." and as I say in my own words...When you stand for something that does not stand on its own, you stand for nothing. Use that against me if you wish, but I know the truth. And you're arrogance and blindness is beginning to annoy me. You so easily and wholeheartedly give into a system of beliefs that are all based on what you can see, and you use it to deny what you cannot see. Don't you see the foolishness in that? Don't you? Don't you?? If you could, then you would not despise me, and you would not despise God. But you are no more wise than the lies you so trust in and rely on to get you through the day. I was trying to be civil with you, but I think civility went out the window when you accuse me of being foolish for believing in what I don't see, and when you accused yourselves of being demons. I never called you a demon, gill, those were your words and your conclusions. Some science-minded people you are, jumping to conclusions before you even weigh the evidence. You hypocrates. You say that your enlightened thinking is so in touch with reality, but you are so blinded by your wisdom that you wouldn't recognize reality if it bit you in the butt and danced naked in front of you. And I thought being civil with you would make you at least respect what I have to say. NO, instead you mock me, but not me, you mock your creator. .. Well here's what your creater says "have your wisdom and your great knowledge. Use it to try and make me disappear. But in the end, every knee will bow, and oh yes, every tongue will confess, including yours." I have no more words to say to you, though I'm sure you're happy. Double-minded people. Why are you people so close minded? Why can’t the possibility even exist in your mind? Why? Must everything be answered with science? Are you that dull? As the very faith I believe in states “God has made foolish the wisdom of the world…” and “the wisdom of the wise shall be made dull…” and as I say in my own words…When you stand for something that does not stand on its own, you stand for nothing. Use that against me if you wish, but I know the truth. And you’re arrogance and blindness is beginning to annoy me. You so easily and wholeheartedly give into a system of beliefs that are all based on what you can see, and you use it to deny what you cannot see. Don’t you see the foolishness in that? Don’t you? Don’t you?? If you could, then you would not despise me, and you would not despise God. But you are no more wise than the lies you so trust in and rely on to get you through the day. I was trying to be civil with you, but I think civility went out the window when you accuse me of being foolish for believing in what I don’t see, and when you accused yourselves of being demons. I never called you a demon, gill, those were your words and your conclusions. Some science-minded people you are, jumping to conclusions before you even weigh the evidence. You hypocrates. You say that your enlightened thinking is so in touch with reality, but you are so blinded by your wisdom that you wouldn’t recognize reality if it bit you in the butt and danced naked in front of you. And I thought being civil with you would make you at least respect what I have to say. NO, instead you mock me, but not me, you mock your creator.
..
Well here’s what your creater says “have your wisdom and your great knowledge. Use it to try and make me disappear. But in the end, every knee will bow, and oh yes, every tongue will confess, including yours.” I have no more words to say to you, though I’m sure you’re happy. Double-minded people.

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]]> By: nikkiee http://www.venganza.org/2006/07/25/i-just-find-it-interesting/#comment-9358 nikkiee Fri, 27 Oct 2006 03:38:41 +0000 http://www.venganza.org/wordpress/2006/07/25/i-just-find-it-interesting/#comment-9358 Upon reading deeper, I see see the initial post has already been well covered by the ever vigilant, eloquent and tireless gill and J. (amongst others) RAmen Upon reading deeper, I see see the initial post has already been well covered by the ever vigilant, eloquent and tireless gill and J. (amongst others)
RAmen

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]]> By: nikkiee http://www.venganza.org/2006/07/25/i-just-find-it-interesting/#comment-9349 nikkiee Fri, 27 Oct 2006 02:59:48 +0000 http://www.venganza.org/wordpress/2006/07/25/i-just-find-it-interesting/#comment-9349 @Roy D Carlson ..OMFSM! you are so completly convinced that pastafarianism is a lie. I can see that talking to you people is like talking to more brick walls. but you know what? I don’t do this to convinced the learned and wise to believe in FSM I do this in hopes that one fool - one person out of a million who might be reading this would be willing to at least take on the challange of seeing for himself. Getting outside of his shell of piety and asking the question “what if?” If only one person came to FSM by what i wrote, then my mission has been accomplished - and i shall meet you one day in FSM heaven. RAmen @Roy D Carlson
..OMFSM! you are so completly convinced that pastafarianism is a lie. I can see that talking to you people is like talking to more brick walls. but you know what? I don’t do this to convinced the learned and wise to believe in FSM I do this in hopes that one fool – one person out of a million who might be reading this would be willing to at least take on the challange of seeing for himself. Getting outside of his shell of piety and asking the question “what if?” If only one person came to FSM by what i wrote, then my mission has been accomplished – and i shall meet you one day in FSM heaven.
RAmen

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]]> By: Roy D Carlson http://www.venganza.org/2006/07/25/i-just-find-it-interesting/#comment-9344 Roy D Carlson Fri, 27 Oct 2006 02:47:15 +0000 http://www.venganza.org/wordpress/2006/07/25/i-just-find-it-interesting/#comment-9344 OMG! you are so completly convinced that christianity is a lie. I can see that talking to you people is like talking to more brick walls. but you know what? I don't do this to convinced the learned and wise to believe in God. I do this in hopes that one fool - one person out of a million who might be reading this would be willing to at least take on the challange of seeing for himself. Getting outside of his shell of piety and asking the question "what if?" If only one person came to faith by what i wrote, then my mission has been accomplished - and i shall meet you one day in paradise OMG! you are so completly convinced that christianity is a lie. I can see that talking to you people is like talking to more brick walls. but you know what? I don’t do this to convinced the learned and wise to believe in God. I do this in hopes that one fool – one person out of a million who might be reading this would be willing to at least take on the challange of seeing for himself. Getting outside of his shell of piety and asking the question “what if?” If only one person came to faith by what i wrote, then my mission has been accomplished – and i shall meet you one day in paradise

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]]> By: Nowtheworldhasmeaning http://www.venganza.org/2006/07/25/i-just-find-it-interesting/#comment-9287 Nowtheworldhasmeaning Thu, 26 Oct 2006 22:50:29 +0000 http://www.venganza.org/wordpress/2006/07/25/i-just-find-it-interesting/#comment-9287 "J, are you trying to convert me? Are you trying to save me from the destructive and self-centered life of faith? Come now, J, you ought to know then, as one who was a Christian, that I would not trade my Father in heaven for your father on earth. You could throw every piece of proven (or otherwise) statements at me and it would not cause me to change my mind. Because, faith is not a matter of my mind. Faith is a living breathing thing that you cannot kill or destroy with words. I wonder why you would walk away from it…I pray it wasn’t because of what some of our more fundamental churches preach and practice - works righteousness. " . J is not asking you to trade yor father in heaven of his father on earth. What he is asking you is to trade the warm comfort of the christian lies and help us search for the truth, but if you do it involves you passing a test first. . I hate to use this but remember the Matrix, where the lead character has to choose between to two pills, . Every human in deep down knows that death is the end, otherwise we would not go to such lengths at staying alive. The question is can you face up to this? “J,
are you trying to convert me? Are you trying to save me from the destructive and self-centered life of faith? Come now, J, you ought to know then, as one who was a Christian, that I would not trade my Father in heaven for your father on earth. You could throw every piece of proven (or otherwise) statements at me and it would not cause me to change my mind. Because, faith is not a matter of my mind. Faith is a living breathing thing that you cannot kill or destroy with words. I wonder why you would walk away from it…I pray it wasn’t because of what some of our more fundamental churches preach and practice – works righteousness. ”
.
J is not asking you to trade yor father in heaven of his father on earth. What he is asking you is to trade the warm comfort of the christian lies and help us search for the truth, but if you do it involves you passing a test first.
.
I hate to use this but remember the Matrix, where the lead character has to choose between to two pills,
.
Every human in deep down knows that death is the end, otherwise we would not go to such lengths at staying alive. The question is can you face up to this?

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]]> By: gill http://www.venganza.org/2006/07/25/i-just-find-it-interesting/#comment-9261 gill Thu, 26 Oct 2006 21:01:08 +0000 http://www.venganza.org/wordpress/2006/07/25/i-just-find-it-interesting/#comment-9261 "Why, knowing that evolutionary theory is no theory at all? "--Just so you know, a theory is fine to teach in science class. Yes, there are gapsd in the evolutionary theory, yes, it could be disproven one day--but as a theory based on the scientific method, it can be taught in science class. (Gravety is a theory too, remeber?) - "You go by propositions that your ever changing facts are the answer. You say you believe in “god”, but I will tell you: that is not good enough. In the realm of faith, even the demons believe in God and tremble. “god” just can’t stand up to that."--What 'ever-changing facts', exactly? Theories aren't facts, they can and do change. People thought the world was flat, now they know it's round. Are we not supposed to believe in science because it changes as we learn more? Lastly, I find your last few comments quite funny. Are you calling me a demon? *I wish, they've got cool horns.* My faith in 'god' is strong enough that I don't feel the need to go around trying to convince other people to agree with me, and it's strong enough to accept evolution and still be there. Obviously you can't say the same.....I kinda feel bad for you, that you can't just live your life with your faith instead of going around forcing it on others. “Why, knowing that evolutionary theory is no theory at all? “–Just so you know, a theory is fine to teach in science class. Yes, there are gapsd in the evolutionary theory, yes, it could be disproven one day–but as a theory based on the scientific method, it can be taught in science class. (Gravety is a theory too, remeber?)
-
“You go by propositions that your ever changing facts are the answer. You say you believe in “god”, but I will tell you: that is not good enough. In the realm of faith, even the demons believe in God and tremble. “god” just can’t stand up to that.”–What ‘ever-changing facts’, exactly? Theories aren’t facts, they can and do change. People thought the world was flat, now they know it’s round. Are we not supposed to believe in science because it changes as we learn more?
Lastly, I find your last few comments quite funny. Are you calling me a demon? *I wish, they’ve got cool horns.* My faith in ‘god’ is strong enough that I don’t feel the need to go around trying to convince other people to agree with me, and it’s strong enough to accept evolution and still be there. Obviously you can’t say the same…..I kinda feel bad for you, that you can’t just live your life with your faith instead of going around forcing it on others.

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]]> By: Enya http://www.venganza.org/2006/07/25/i-just-find-it-interesting/#comment-9249 Enya Thu, 26 Oct 2006 20:31:25 +0000 http://www.venganza.org/wordpress/2006/07/25/i-just-find-it-interesting/#comment-9249 faith IS the imagination of explaining the (yet) unknown. Of course we can't explain anything yet, that what science is all about: research! Faith is the fear to die and be dead, so life won't have a meaning. Most people can't imagine being gone, so they believe in something. But, be honest, as sad as it is: what meaning has life if there is an afterlife? And why did god make everything so complicated: DNA, metabolism, Fossils .... if he is almighty, why does he need beings so complex? Why aren't we just beanbags filled with his spirit then???? faith IS the imagination of explaining the (yet) unknown. Of course we can’t explain anything yet, that what science is all about: research! Faith is the fear to die and be dead, so life won’t have a meaning. Most people can’t imagine being gone, so they believe in something. But, be honest, as sad as it is: what meaning has life if there is an afterlife? And why did god make everything so complicated: DNA, metabolism, Fossils …. if he is almighty, why does he need beings so complex? Why aren’t we just beanbags filled with his spirit then????

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]]> By: Nowtheworldhasmeaning http://www.venganza.org/2006/07/25/i-just-find-it-interesting/#comment-9242 Nowtheworldhasmeaning Thu, 26 Oct 2006 20:05:52 +0000 http://www.venganza.org/wordpress/2006/07/25/i-just-find-it-interesting/#comment-9242 “But what about faith having answers that go beyond science?” . . My imagination has more answers than even faith, so what? “But what about faith having answers that go beyond science?”
.
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My imagination has more answers than even faith, so what?

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]]> By: Davey http://www.venganza.org/2006/07/25/i-just-find-it-interesting/#comment-9241 Davey Thu, 26 Oct 2006 20:03:08 +0000 http://www.venganza.org/wordpress/2006/07/25/i-just-find-it-interesting/#comment-9241 "But what about faith having answers that go beyond science?" Given enough time and enough fresh lab coats, everything that is answerable can be answered. Everything else has, being unanswerable, has no answer. Faith has no answers, it assumes that the answers provided to it by church/god/your elder brother/a bloke on the street/any fictional higher power are reliable and unquestionable. Faith, far from having any answers, asks no *questions*. "Faith is a living breathing thing" Then you can show it to me. A photo will do. . "Faith is a living breathing thing" Then it can be killed. Perhaps not with words, but it's worth a go. . "I would not trade my Father in heaven for your father on earth" Neither would I. Your heavenly father is a fiction, whereas my dad is a nice man who shares his stash of fine single malt whiskys whenever I go round to see him. “But what about faith having answers that go beyond science?”
Given enough time and enough fresh lab coats, everything that is answerable can be answered. Everything else has, being unanswerable, has no answer. Faith has no answers, it assumes that the answers provided to it by church/god/your elder brother/a bloke on the street/any fictional higher power are reliable and unquestionable. Faith, far from having any answers, asks no *questions*.

“Faith is a living breathing thing”
Then you can show it to me. A photo will do.
.
“Faith is a living breathing thing”
Then it can be killed. Perhaps not with words, but it’s worth a go.
.
“I would not trade my Father in heaven for your father on earth”
Neither would I. Your heavenly father is a fiction, whereas my dad is a nice man who shares his stash of fine single malt whiskys whenever I go round to see him.

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