I just find it interesting that someone like you, who appears to have some knowledge, can take something like this so far. Well, I don’t find it unusual, but interesting.
Here’s a man, claiming to be enlightened, to have understanding and to have a grasp of reality, using science to back up his equation. Now I’m sorry, but as someone who also knows a few things, I know that science, a religion in and of itself, is NOT the worlds answer to all of our questions. In truth, the scientific method taught in our schools is NOT the true scientific method. You know that as well, don’t you?
You should also know that science is merely a tool meant to take observations and, after all is said and one, to comment on those observations. And what’s silly is, how can you be so absolutely certain that what you have not seen, that is what existed before you, really existed at all? Sure, you can take things that are here now and use that as your evidence, but where is the true science in that? You’re only observing what you see and know now, not what really was or wasn’t. There is absolutely no way science can prove or disprove anything about the origins of life, about where this solar system or universe came from, because we were simply not there. And this tool we call science is just a tool, created by human minds, molded and shaped to fit the confines of our understanding. Where science is good is when it is used to do what it is good at doing – observing and commenting. Where science fails is when it tries to enforce and justify a philosophy (whether of “intelligent design†or not).
To go further with my point, our modern understanding of science began with philosophy. It began as a thought and as a way of looking at life. So science, which was once a philosophy (even used by many Christian philosophers), still IS a philosophy, and philosophies change as societies change, as people change. Science will change, and in fact has MANY times since its methods were invented. Today the idea (yes philosophy) of no intelligent design will be pushed, tomorrow it will be disproved by the very thing that tried to substantiate it. It’s been this way for thousands and thousands of years, and you know this.
But through all of this, there is one thing that has NEVER changed (well, the principals have never changed anyway), and that is the saving grace of Jesus Christ. Heck, your science has found the very places and even artifacts pertaining to the life of the Christ. But put that aside, and simply think about how you put your faith in the religion of science, a constantly changing and disproving liquid, while there is something changeless and timeless that exists, which calls you by name – a rock that never moves or breaks. Though it breaks the heads of many who do not believe.
It’s all faith, sir, and you well know that there is no science or philosophy that can substantiate your claims to the origins of life – because we were NOT there to witness it. But we WERE there to witness Christ and his death. And we WERE there to witness his resurrection. It’s written in the history books – and not just the Bible. The crumbs of true enlightenment lead to the cross – they always have, and always will.
So push your science all you want to, but I hope and pray that you will come to a realization of the truth in your walk, and in your search for it. Because only the truth will set you free, and freedom is what you are searching for.
Roy D Carlson
Every time I try to get away from this site, I just get sucked back in. (Once embraced by His Noodly Appendage, there is no turning back.)
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I can see I’ll have to revisit this thread tonight and read all of the posts made in the last couple of days properly.
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Just one thing now, quickly. Roy, somewhere above you wrote:
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‘If only one person came to faith by what i wrote, then my mission has been accomplished’
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I’d just like to acknowledge that I respect this. Not your faith, I’m afraid, for although I sympathise with it, I reason it to be groundless and undeserving of respect. But I respect that you are, at least, faithful *to* your faith. We meet a lot of people who are Christians but who don’t seem to care whether we are Christians or not. This confuses me - surely a Christian believes I’m going to hell if I don’t believe in God? Any Christian familiar with the story of the prodigal son ‘knows’ that God values previously wayward people who return to the fold above virtually everything else.
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You, Roy, at least have sufficient conviction and courage to put your actions where your scripture is.
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Of course, that’s one of the things that really worries me, because I’m absolutely convinced that your scriptures are not something to base a deeply-held world view on. And that’s why I will almost certainly be back to discuss this later.
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I hope your faith (or, better still, your curiosity) won’t let you give up on us just yet…
Ah, I’m late to the debate! The stupid thread vanished on me…
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“Why are you people so close minded? Why can’t the possibility even exist in your mind? Why?â€â€”Pot, meet kettle. Why oh why can’t the possibility of some OTHER religion—or NO religion—exist in your mind?
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“You so easily and wholeheartedly give into a system of beliefs that are all based on what you can see, and you use it to deny what you cannot see. Don’t you see the foolishness in that? Don’t you? Don’t you??â€â€”Way to overuse the question mark. Now then, don’t YOU see the foolishness in basing your beliefs on what you cannot even find evidence for, much less see? (Yah, I totally just insulted my own religion there, but what the hell! Unlike you, I can I admit I might be wrong.) BTW, the ‘don’t you? Don’t you?? Don’t you???????!?!?!@#$@%???????2145’ thing does not help your case, I’m afraid.
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“you would not despise God.†-Who here despises god?? Some of us don’t believe in him, but if you don’t believe in him then you can’t very well despise him, can you?
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“I never called you a demon, gill, those were your words and your conclusions. Some science-minded people you are, jumping to conclusions before you even weigh the evidence.â€â€”no, but you DID insinuate that my beliefs weren’t ‘true’ because they’re not yours by commenting that even demons can believe in god. (Once again, I say that being a demon would be way cooler then being a human.) Also, that was sarcasm. Also, stop being so darn serious and grow a sense of humor.
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“Well here’s what your creater says “have your wisdom and your great knowledge. Use it to try and make me disappear. But in the end, every knee will bow, and oh yes, every tongue will confess, including yours.â€â€–…..*gasp* YOU KNOW WHAT GOD SAYS?! Oh, wait, I’m sorry, you get upset when someone tries to crack a joke or two. Well, pal, if you can’t stand to hear the opinions of people who don’t agree with you, then why did you ever post at all? Maybe it was so you could rant and rave and hopefully, as you said, ‘change someone’s mind into agreeing with YOU because you so obviously have to be right?’
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A word of advice: don’t ever start whining about how stupid and foolish your opponents are being. Don’t call me names, refute my arguments; otherwise, you sound like an immature two year old who doesn’t HAVE any arguments but needs to argue anyway.
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Running away, are you? Why do they always feel the need to flee when the argument’s getting good, I wonder?
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Lastly: why does all of this bother you? So some people haven’t found god the way you want them to. How does that affect your life!? You seem so devastated to learn that there are others in this world who look at things differently then you do; do you really think your god—wait, that’s God with a capital G ‘cause he’s really gonna get so offended if some person doesn’t capitalize his name—wants you to go around trying to convert others into a faith that doesn’t work for them, just so he can brag about how many followers he has? I think god gave you your faith so that YOU personally could use it to be happy….not use it to make others miserable andor annoyed. But then again, what do I know, I’m just a scientifically-minded heathen who STILL won’t become Christian. (The nerve!)
Pastafarianism is an equation?
Science does not use supernatural explanations and is allowed to be freely thought about. Religion uses supernatural explanations and thinking about it seems to have gotten a few people beheaded, tortured, burned at the stake, hand, drawn, and quartered (take your pick)
I don’t know what scientific method you were taught at school (probably a christian one), but I have looked all over for one different from the one taught at my school and haven’t found one, this leads me to believe that if there is another scientific method, it probably isn’t “the true scientific method”.
Ever hear of Last Thursdayism? I know that “what you have not seen, that is what existed before you, really existed at all” because it is the only logical and natural way for it to have happened (well, without getting into the possibilities that some dude took the time to make a fossil or something exactly the same way as many others and also made sure that the material he/she (though dude would tend to imply he) used to make said fossil had just the right isotopic structure too fool a bunch of scientists, but you don’t let us say that some dude just wrote some junk in the bible, so that wouldn’t be a very fair argument would it?).
“Where science is good is when it is used to do what it is good at doing” That’s totally going in my book of favourite quotes.
“So science, which was once a philosophy (even used by many Christian philosophers), still IS a philosophy” So this shirt that I just threw into Lake Superior, which was once dry, (and even worn by one Pastafarian philosopher) still IS dry?
“Today the idea (yes philosophy) of no intelligent design will be pushed, tomorrow it will be disproved” The thing about science is, it changes (yes evolves) with the evidence, not some nut job, and the changes cannot be predicted until the evidence is gathered.
You are right, the saving grace of this jesus fellow have never changed. They were as nonexistent in the past as they are now. I don’t really even know what you are trying to say with the rest of that paragraph, but I think you are trying to threaten the continued structural integrity of my cranial region.
“But we WERE there to witness Christ and his death.” I don’t remember that… must have been sleeping (or maybe a couple thousand years before I was born).
Did these crumb of which you speak lead to the cross before the first society began to use crosses as a form of punishment?
I do find it odd that a fundie is proposing freedom. Hey Roy! Do you think maybe I could have the freedom to have science taught in a science classroom?