Comments on: Hi Bobby I find it http://www.venganza.org/2006/02/12/hi-bobby-i-find-it/ Fri, 19 Mar 2010 05:40:23 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Sebastian Worms http://www.venganza.org/2006/02/12/hi-bobby-i-find-it/#comment-703331 Sebastian Worms Tue, 16 Dec 2008 18:08:25 +0000 http://www.venganza.org/wordpress/2006/02/12/hi-bobby-i-find-it/#comment-703331 By the way, even if you can found flaw in the evolution theory, that doesn't mean that evolution is false, only that we did'nt understood it fully, and that rhe theory is still perfectible. Newton, was false with his gravitation equations, but does that mean that gravity doesn't exist? By the way, even if you can found flaw in the evolution theory, that doesn’t mean that evolution is false, only that we did’nt understood it fully, and that rhe theory is still perfectible. Newton, was false with his gravitation equations, but does that mean that gravity doesn’t exist?

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]]> By: Physics Wench http://www.venganza.org/2006/02/12/hi-bobby-i-find-it/#comment-703256 Physics Wench Tue, 16 Dec 2008 15:56:58 +0000 http://www.venganza.org/wordpress/2006/02/12/hi-bobby-i-find-it/#comment-703256 As far as I understand it, intelligent design is supposed to be an alternative to natural selection, not an alternative to evolution. Evolution is not a theory, it is fact, it has been observed. Theory comes in as a means to explain it. The theory of natural selection is a scientific theory because it provides a natural explanation for why evolution occurs. Now, intelligent design does not predict anything different than natural selection, so one can never really know which one is true. The problem is that ID provides a supernatural explanation for why evolution occurs. Its main argument is that the universe is too complex to try to understand it. This is the antithesis of science. Science is about probing and testing and pushing the bounds of our understanding of the world around us. If we just throw up our hands and say it's just too complex, than there will never be any progress. That said, I have no problem with individuals believing in whatever higher power, or believing in intelligent design. I don't discount the possibility, but the point is we don't know. Even if there is a higher power, he/she/it may have set up the initial conditions of the universe, and then let it go on its own from there. But the fact remains that all of this discussion of possibilities of higher powers and an intelligently designed universe has no place in a science classroom. If people want to have this taught, it should be taught in philosophy classes, not science classes. As far as I understand it, intelligent design is supposed to be an alternative to natural selection, not an alternative to evolution. Evolution is not a theory, it is fact, it has been observed. Theory comes in as a means to explain it. The theory of natural selection is a scientific theory because it provides a natural explanation for why evolution occurs. Now, intelligent design does not predict anything different than natural selection, so one can never really know which one is true. The problem is that ID provides a supernatural explanation for why evolution occurs. Its main argument is that the universe is too complex to try to understand it. This is the antithesis of science. Science is about probing and testing and pushing the bounds of our understanding of the world around us. If we just throw up our hands and say it’s just too complex, than there will never be any progress. That said, I have no problem with individuals believing in whatever higher power, or believing in intelligent design. I don’t discount the possibility, but the point is we don’t know. Even if there is a higher power, he/she/it may have set up the initial conditions of the universe, and then let it go on its own from there. But the fact remains that all of this discussion of possibilities of higher powers and an intelligently designed universe has no place in a science classroom. If people want to have this taught, it should be taught in philosophy classes, not science classes.

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]]> By: DeadlyPredator http://www.venganza.org/2006/02/12/hi-bobby-i-find-it/#comment-703243 DeadlyPredator Tue, 16 Dec 2008 15:28:12 +0000 http://www.venganza.org/wordpress/2006/02/12/hi-bobby-i-find-it/#comment-703243 ===Evolution=== +Fruit flies changing generation to generation is an observation of generational organism change. +Organisms changing generation to generation is called evolution. +Evolution is a fact. ===Explanations for the facts of evolution=== +Lamarckism, Transmutationism and Orthogenesis were created as explanations of the fact of evolution. These are now discredited explanations. +Darwin's explanation of evolution is approximately correct, but required refinement. +The modern evolutionary synthesis is a refinement of Darwin's explanation of evolution, which did not include genes in its explanation. This modern synthesis is currently the most accepted explanation of the fact of evolution. +The explanation of the fact of evolution provided by the modern synthesis is the latest and most widely accepted Theory of Evolution. ---->Evolution is a fact and a theory. ===Evolution===
+Fruit flies changing generation to generation is an observation of generational organism change.
+Organisms changing generation to generation is called evolution.
+Evolution is a fact.

===Explanations for the facts of evolution===
+Lamarckism, Transmutationism and Orthogenesis were created as explanations of the fact of evolution. These are now discredited explanations.
+Darwin’s explanation of evolution is approximately correct, but required refinement.
+The modern evolutionary synthesis is a refinement of Darwin’s explanation of evolution, which did not include genes in its explanation. This modern synthesis is currently the most accepted explanation of the fact of evolution.
+The explanation of the fact of evolution provided by the modern synthesis is the latest and most widely accepted Theory of Evolution.

—->Evolution is a fact and a theory.

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]]> By: DeadlyPredator http://www.venganza.org/2006/02/12/hi-bobby-i-find-it/#comment-703242 DeadlyPredator Tue, 16 Dec 2008 15:27:23 +0000 http://www.venganza.org/wordpress/2006/02/12/hi-bobby-i-find-it/#comment-703242 @Chanty : "Surely there must be others who believe we were intelligently designed, and believe in evolution" I.D supporters are stupid and probably in the Flat Earth Society group too. Science is here with facts, experiments, theories... if you want to belive that "god" created something, OK, you are a ignorant fool, but it's your pathetic choice. It has its place in a (brainwashing) religion class only so don't teach that in a science class! Here is some evidences of evolution: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evidence_of_common_descent And... ===Gravity=== +Things falling is an observation of the pull of bodies towards each other. +Bodies pulling towards each other is called gravity. +Gravity is a fact. ===Explanations for the facts of gravity=== +Aristotle and Galileo created explanations of the fact of gravity. These are now obsolete explanations. +Newton's explanation of gravity is approximately correct but required refinement. +Einstein's explanation is a refinement of Newton's explanation of gravity. Einstein's explanation is currently the most accepted explanation of the fact of gravity. +Einstein's explanation of the fact of gravity is called The General theory of relativity. ---->Gravity is a fact and a theory Evolution is a fact and a theory @Chanty : “Surely there must be others who believe we were intelligently designed, and believe in evolution”

I.D supporters are stupid and probably in the Flat Earth Society group too. Science is here with facts, experiments, theories… if you want to belive that “god” created something, OK, you are a ignorant fool, but it’s your pathetic choice. It has its place in a (brainwashing) religion class only so don’t teach that in a science class!

Here is some evidences of evolution:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evidence_of_common_descent

And…

===Gravity===
+Things falling is an observation of the pull of bodies towards each other.
+Bodies pulling towards each other is called gravity.
+Gravity is a fact.

===Explanations for the facts of gravity===

+Aristotle and Galileo created explanations of the fact of gravity. These are now obsolete explanations.
+Newton’s explanation of gravity is approximately correct but required refinement.
+Einstein’s explanation is a refinement of Newton’s explanation of gravity. Einstein’s explanation is currently the most accepted explanation of the fact of gravity.
+Einstein’s explanation of the fact of gravity is called The General theory of relativity.

—->Gravity is a fact and a theory Evolution is a fact and a theory

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]]> By: Dan http://www.venganza.org/2006/02/12/hi-bobby-i-find-it/#comment-703049 Dan Tue, 16 Dec 2008 09:37:53 +0000 http://www.venganza.org/wordpress/2006/02/12/hi-bobby-i-find-it/#comment-703049 Hi Chanty (#12) “Honestly, I think we should teach both.” No, ID is not scientific, it should not be taught as science as the ID lobby want. Even teaching it in religious classes exposes children to ‘education’ that is completely at odds with scientific truth. I hope we’re moving away from a world where we promote superstition over evidence. “Surely there must be others who believe we were intelligently designed, and believe in evolution…” The Intelligent Design lobby deny evolution, evolution does not deny the possibility of a god. The ID lobby are the closed minded ones. Wdabrock (#13) “I know you believe in the THEORY of gravity!” Take a look at http://christiansdontbelieve.ytmnd.com/ Hi Chanty (#12)

“Honestly, I think we should teach both.”
No, ID is not scientific, it should not be taught as science as the ID lobby want. Even teaching it in religious classes exposes children to ‘education’ that is completely at odds with scientific truth. I hope we’re moving away from a world where we promote superstition over evidence.

“Surely there must be others who believe we were intelligently designed,
and believe in evolution…”
The Intelligent Design lobby deny evolution, evolution does not deny the possibility of a god. The ID lobby are the closed minded ones.

Wdabrock (#13)

“I know you believe in the THEORY of gravity!”
Take a look at http://christiansdontbelieve.ytmnd.com/

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]]> By: Wdabrock http://www.venganza.org/2006/02/12/hi-bobby-i-find-it/#comment-702792 Wdabrock Tue, 16 Dec 2008 00:16:37 +0000 http://www.venganza.org/wordpress/2006/02/12/hi-bobby-i-find-it/#comment-702792 @ Brad, As you state: "Intelligent Design is only using science to show the flaws in evolution and to say that another theory needs to be made." Is arguing an argument with another argument, science? If you say to me,"The earth is flat" and to prove the point you push a bowling ball on level ground and point out that the ball doesn't roll. I say, "Silly man, the earth is round" and I push the ball on the same spot as you and sigh, "Well, I'd prove it to ya' if I could find a slope". How is that to prove anything except that you have two very stupid people with a bowling ball?! Where does ID use science to defend itself? Circular arguments? You said that ID is taking the origin of species back to formula. What formula is that? That an intelligent agent designed all life? OK! I say that intelligent agent is the Flying Spaghetti Monster! ID says the intelligent agent could be anything, not necessarily a god. Offended? Why? Does it offend you on some fundamental level to think that a plate of pasta made you? Takes the origin of species back to formula, don't it? And its so elegant! The FSM made the universe(Check), mountains(Earth, check) and a midgit(lower form of life, check), and pirates(perfected human, check-point-Chickie!), so is the history of the world! Faith in it? You aren't supposed to have faith in science, its NOT a religion! You don't worship Darwin when you accept the theory of evolution. Do you worship Newton and Einstein? I know you believe in the THEORY of gravity! Pick up that bowling ball, son. Drop it on yer' clod-hopper, see if it floats in the air! Now if you haven't got the message by now that you can't say Intelligent Design without including the FSM into your formula, and that you'd better "Believe in evolution" because any other so-called theory out there(unless its scientifically based) is going to make you and your clique` look hella'stupid, then ... shit. Pick up that damn bowling ball! Hold it over your head... and make it float! RAmen! @ Brad,

As you state: “Intelligent Design is only using science to show the flaws in evolution and to say that another theory needs to be made.”
Is arguing an argument with another argument, science? If you say to me,”The earth is flat” and to prove the point you push a bowling ball on level ground and point out that the ball doesn’t roll. I say, “Silly man, the earth is round” and I push the ball on the same spot as you and sigh, “Well, I’d prove it to ya’ if I could find a slope”. How is that to prove anything except that you have two very stupid people with a bowling ball?!

Where does ID use science to defend itself? Circular arguments? You said that ID is taking the origin of species back to formula. What formula is that? That an intelligent agent designed all life?

OK! I say that intelligent agent is the Flying Spaghetti Monster! ID says the intelligent agent could be anything, not necessarily a god. Offended? Why? Does it offend you on some fundamental level to think that a plate of pasta made you? Takes the origin of species back to formula, don’t it? And its so elegant! The FSM made the universe(Check), mountains(Earth, check) and a midgit(lower form of life, check), and pirates(perfected human, check-point-Chickie!), so is the history of the world! Faith in it? You aren’t supposed to have faith in science, its NOT a religion! You don’t worship Darwin when you accept the theory of evolution. Do you worship Newton and Einstein? I know you believe in the THEORY of gravity! Pick up that bowling ball, son. Drop it on yer’ clod-hopper, see if it floats in the air!

Now if you haven’t got the message by now that you can’t say Intelligent Design without including the FSM into your formula, and that you’d better “Believe in evolution” because any other so-called theory out there(unless its scientifically based) is going to make you and your clique` look hella’stupid, then … shit.

Pick up that damn bowling ball! Hold it over your head… and make it float!

RAmen!

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]]> By: Chanty. http://www.venganza.org/2006/02/12/hi-bobby-i-find-it/#comment-702675 Chanty. Mon, 15 Dec 2008 20:15:24 +0000 http://www.venganza.org/wordpress/2006/02/12/hi-bobby-i-find-it/#comment-702675 Honestly, I think we should teach both. Actually, why can't they be one and the same? Surely there must be others who believe we were intelligently designed, and believe in evolution... Honestly, I think we should teach both.

Actually, why can’t they be one and the same?
Surely there must be others who believe we were intelligently designed,
and believe in evolution…

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]]> By: DeadlyPredator http://www.venganza.org/2006/02/12/hi-bobby-i-find-it/#comment-702652 DeadlyPredator Mon, 15 Dec 2008 19:22:57 +0000 http://www.venganza.org/wordpress/2006/02/12/hi-bobby-i-find-it/#comment-702652 Brad, you are completly WRONG. There are incontestable proofs that confirm the evolution theory since few years. When Darwin created his theory there was very few resources and knowledge available to him but today with DNA we have NO DOUBTS about evolution. Look at that: Human hair linked to ancient claws http://www.abc.net.au/science/articles/2008/11/13/2418641.htm By analyzing our DNA we can prove that we have common genes with lizards... And the ultimate proof: The flu virus. There is 2 evolution type. Macroevolution and Microevolution . The flu virus adapt itself each year to infect us. It changes its genes, it evolves, due to mutation, natural selection, artificial selection, gene flow and genetic drift! This is microevolution. It's very easy to observe that with virus and bacterias because they are simple organisms. For complex organisms, like human beings, it's called macroevolution and it takes millions of years... It is COMPLETLY FOOLISH to think God created a thing because you don't understand that thing... stop listening that theologic bullshit. Just admit that God doesn't exists and that you are not a part of a "divine" plan. Brad, you are completly WRONG. There are incontestable proofs that confirm the evolution theory since few years. When Darwin created his theory there was very few resources and knowledge available to him but today with DNA we have NO DOUBTS about evolution. Look at that:

Human hair linked to ancient claws
http://www.abc.net.au/science/articles/2008/11/13/2418641.htm

By analyzing our DNA we can prove that we have common genes with lizards…

And the ultimate proof: The flu virus. There is 2 evolution type. Macroevolution and Microevolution . The flu virus adapt itself each year to infect us. It changes its genes, it evolves, due to mutation, natural selection, artificial selection, gene flow and genetic drift! This is microevolution. It’s very easy to observe that with virus and bacterias because they are simple organisms. For complex organisms, like human beings, it’s called macroevolution and it takes millions of years…

It is COMPLETLY FOOLISH to think God created a thing because you don’t understand that thing… stop listening that theologic bullshit. Just admit that God doesn’t exists and that you are not a part of a “divine” plan.

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]]> By: TheFewTheProudTheMarinara http://www.venganza.org/2006/02/12/hi-bobby-i-find-it/#comment-702567 TheFewTheProudTheMarinara Mon, 15 Dec 2008 15:51:22 +0000 http://www.venganza.org/wordpress/2006/02/12/hi-bobby-i-find-it/#comment-702567 Dude - you can SEE evolution working. Artic animals are larger, to conserve body heat. Island dwellers tend to be smaller, to conserve scarce resources. People in hot climates are darker, to protect against more UV rays. Mates are chosen for gene superiority. So what are the "holes" in Evolution? That we haven't found fossils of every individual of every species? Give me a break. Even so, Bobby isn't necessarily championing evolution - just trying to prevent ID. It's not science when you throw out a few ridiculous ideas, then say "that's when God (whose existence is still unproven) stepped in and a bunch of miracles happened!" Dude – you can SEE evolution working. Artic animals are larger, to conserve body heat. Island dwellers tend to be smaller, to conserve scarce resources. People in hot climates are darker, to protect against more UV rays. Mates are chosen for gene superiority. So what are the “holes” in Evolution? That we haven’t found fossils of every individual of every species? Give me a break.

Even so, Bobby isn’t necessarily championing evolution – just trying to prevent ID. It’s not science when you throw out a few ridiculous ideas, then say “that’s when God (whose existence is still unproven) stepped in and a bunch of miracles happened!”

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]]> By: Plague Chicken http://www.venganza.org/2006/02/12/hi-bobby-i-find-it/#comment-702565 Plague Chicken Mon, 15 Dec 2008 15:47:51 +0000 http://www.venganza.org/wordpress/2006/02/12/hi-bobby-i-find-it/#comment-702565 Aaaah Brad...If I were you ...I'd be really depressed at my lack of grey matter. Or, maybe I wouldn't be as I would be unaware of my relative dimness. Perhaps you should study this site more thorough[ly] {adverbs modify verbs and are often accompanied by the ending -ly} before you insert your foot into your oral cavity. Unless you like that kinda thing, in which case I say - damn the torpedos, full stupidity ahead! Cheers PC Aaaah Brad…If I were you …I’d be really depressed at my lack of grey matter. Or, maybe I wouldn’t be as I would be unaware of my relative dimness. Perhaps you should study this site more thorough[ly] {adverbs modify verbs and are often accompanied by the ending -ly} before you insert your foot into your oral cavity.
Unless you like that kinda thing, in which case I say – damn the torpedos, full stupidity ahead!

Cheers

PC

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]]> By: Boarg http://www.venganza.org/2006/02/12/hi-bobby-i-find-it/#comment-702552 Boarg Mon, 15 Dec 2008 15:09:19 +0000 http://www.venganza.org/wordpress/2006/02/12/hi-bobby-i-find-it/#comment-702552 Perhaps you should study spelling more thorough(ly)before starting a letter. Perhaps you should study spelling more thorough(ly)before starting a letter.

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]]> By: Enoch http://www.venganza.org/2006/02/12/hi-bobby-i-find-it/#comment-702330 Enoch Mon, 15 Dec 2008 02:10:28 +0000 http://www.venganza.org/wordpress/2006/02/12/hi-bobby-i-find-it/#comment-702330 HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! I just love how the braindwashed fundies say that their religion has tons of science to back it up, while the scientific theories are only beliefs. So twisted. So typical. PL&P!! RAmen. Little wrong there. He says that ID points out the flaws in evolution with science, but says nothing about backing ID up with science. I dunno about you, but I'd chose the one that makes more logical sense according to that argument.. evolution. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!
I just love how the braindwashed fundies say that their religion has tons of science to back it up, while the scientific theories are only beliefs. So twisted. So typical.
PL&P!!
RAmen.

Little wrong there. He says that ID points out the flaws in evolution with science, but says nothing about backing ID up with science. I dunno about you, but I’d chose the one that makes more logical sense according to that argument.. evolution.

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]]> By: ME DUH http://www.venganza.org/2006/02/12/hi-bobby-i-find-it/#comment-438531 ME DUH Sat, 10 May 2008 15:02:57 +0000 http://www.venganza.org/wordpress/2006/02/12/hi-bobby-i-find-it/#comment-438531 HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! I just love how the braindwashed fundies say that their religion has tons of science to back it up, while the scientific theories are only beliefs. So twisted. So typical. PL&P!! RAmen. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!
I just love how the braindwashed fundies say that their religion has tons of science to back it up, while the scientific theories are only beliefs. So twisted. So typical.
PL&P!!
RAmen.

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]]> By: James D King of Pirates http://www.venganza.org/2006/02/12/hi-bobby-i-find-it/#comment-414273 James D King of Pirates Tue, 29 Apr 2008 13:53:51 +0000 http://www.venganza.org/wordpress/2006/02/12/hi-bobby-i-find-it/#comment-414273 actually Evolution has more evidence than any other theory, and do you find it weird givin your standpoint that only heavy duty bible humpers are the only ones that beleive in it, think about it. actually Evolution has more evidence than any other theory, and do you find it weird givin your standpoint that only heavy duty bible humpers are the only ones that beleive in it, think about it.

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]]> By: Count Crisco http://www.venganza.org/2006/02/12/hi-bobby-i-find-it/#comment-334463 Count Crisco Sat, 15 Mar 2008 06:52:13 +0000 http://www.venganza.org/wordpress/2006/02/12/hi-bobby-i-find-it/#comment-334463 Since when is ID the scientific side of the argument? And why oh why can nobody take a joke? Since when is ID the scientific side of the argument? And why oh why can nobody take a joke?

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]]> By: El Peatieablo http://www.venganza.org/2006/02/12/hi-bobby-i-find-it/#comment-185754 El Peatieablo Wed, 05 Sep 2007 01:16:35 +0000 http://www.venganza.org/wordpress/2006/02/12/hi-bobby-i-find-it/#comment-185754 1: Do you think of ancient Greek mythology as wrong as soon as somebody mentions it? 2: Show me the evidence that Evolution is wrong and ID is correct. 1: Do you think of ancient Greek mythology as wrong as soon as somebody mentions it?
2: Show me the evidence that Evolution is wrong and ID is correct.

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]]> By: Nikkkolay (formerly tha beast from tha east) http://www.venganza.org/2006/02/12/hi-bobby-i-find-it/#comment-73999 Nikkkolay (formerly tha beast from tha east) Fri, 16 Mar 2007 22:52:46 +0000 http://www.venganza.org/wordpress/2006/02/12/hi-bobby-i-find-it/#comment-73999 you are correct, id doesnt have any proof, they only poke holes in evolution, but the open letter would be so much less fun if all we did was try to disprove evolution... very good point you are correct, id doesnt have any proof, they only poke holes in evolution, but the open letter would be so much less fun if all we did was try to disprove evolution… very good point

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]]> By: druidbros http://www.venganza.org/2006/02/12/hi-bobby-i-find-it/#comment-32 druidbros Mon, 31 Jul 2006 19:21:37 +0000 http://www.venganza.org/wordpress/2006/02/12/hi-bobby-i-find-it/#comment-32 uh dude. ID has NO SCIENTIFIC data behind it. Just an idea of irreducible complexity. NO DATA. And the reason Evolution is taught in science class is because as a THEORY it does have data which supports it. Perhaps you should think before posting Brad. uh dude. ID has NO SCIENTIFIC data behind it. Just an idea of irreducible complexity. NO DATA. And the reason Evolution is taught in science class is because as a THEORY it does have data which supports it. Perhaps you should think before posting Brad.

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