Comments on: Hello. I am Graham Holiman, http://www.venganza.org/2005/10/12/hello-i-am-graham-holiman.htm Sat, 05 Jul 2008 02:20:09 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.2 By: TheFewTheProudTheMarinara http://www.venganza.org/2005/10/12/hello-i-am-graham-holiman.htm#comment-513913 TheFewTheProudTheMarinara Mon, 30 Jun 2008 13:31:32 +0000 http://www.venganza.org/2005/10/12/hello-i-am-graham-holiman.htm#comment-513913 Cey: "Holy shit" is still a good one, but like you, I've found it hard to stop saying things like "thank heavens I'm an atheist". Just let it go, and realize it means nothing. Cey: “Holy shit” is still a good one, but like you, I’ve found it hard to stop saying things like “thank heavens I’m an atheist”. Just let it go, and realize it means nothing.

]]> By: violentred http://www.venganza.org/2005/10/12/hello-i-am-graham-holiman.htm#comment-513520 violentred Mon, 30 Jun 2008 06:10:43 +0000 http://www.venganza.org/2005/10/12/hello-i-am-graham-holiman.htm#comment-513520 @Cey... I recommend that you look up the definition to the words in the phrases you are using and make an informed decision about what they MEAN to YOU based off of YOUR research. Shame that Phillip stole your writings Mr. Holiman. Interpretation is a great part of Free Will. For some...Damnation for Creation (Christians). @Cey… I recommend that you look up the definition to the words in the phrases you are using and make an informed decision about what they MEAN to YOU based off of YOUR research.

Shame that Phillip stole your writings Mr. Holiman.

Interpretation is a great part of Free Will. For some…Damnation for Creation (Christians).

]]> By: Cappy Caine http://www.venganza.org/2005/10/12/hello-i-am-graham-holiman.htm#comment-513457 Cappy Caine Mon, 30 Jun 2008 04:48:38 +0000 http://www.venganza.org/2005/10/12/hello-i-am-graham-holiman.htm#comment-513457 To Graham and his response to his own email - . Cheers for admitting that you search for your own name on the internet. It is the narcissistic something few will admit to, but every one of us does...kind of like masturbation. . To the first part of the email which you claim is your own: . Please stop referencing your own sources that are not accepted by anybody else except the believer of your own sources. If I limited my sources to old stories written by people that didn't even know the world was a giant sphere to prove my case for a creator, then of course I could do it. If I allow for more contemporary, reliable information (with repeatable conclusions and demonstrable evidence), then none of it points to a god. The difference between your sources and my sources is that I can demonstrate with empirical evidence why things are the way they are and this information is the same for you and me (whether you are a socialist, gay, Christian or Atheist). You rely on the fact that your sources are ancient for authenticity. . RAmen To Graham and his response to his own email -
.
Cheers for admitting that you search for your own name on the internet. It is the narcissistic something few will admit to, but every one of us does…kind of like masturbation.
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To the first part of the email which you claim is your own:
.
Please stop referencing your own sources that are not accepted by anybody else except the believer of your own sources. If I limited my sources to old stories written by people that didn’t even know the world was a giant sphere to prove my case for a creator, then of course I could do it. If I allow for more contemporary, reliable information (with repeatable conclusions and demonstrable evidence), then none of it points to a god. The difference between your sources and my sources is that I can demonstrate with empirical evidence why things are the way they are and this information is the same for you and me (whether you are a socialist, gay, Christian or Atheist). You rely on the fact that your sources are ancient for authenticity.
.
RAmen

]]> By: Apprentice Frederick http://www.venganza.org/2005/10/12/hello-i-am-graham-holiman.htm#comment-511664 Apprentice Frederick Sat, 28 Jun 2008 18:08:38 +0000 http://www.venganza.org/2005/10/12/hello-i-am-graham-holiman.htm#comment-511664 Some wise person once made a remark to the effect that a walk through an insane asylum should be enough to convince most of us that taith alone is not enough. A wise Pastafarian has also - in effect -observed that reacting to the illiterate frothing that constitutes most of the site's hate mail posts quickly gets to be a fack - er, fag. Graham/Phil's is a brilliant, though still depressing, exception. The forums are far better places for serious discussion. Some wise person once made a remark to the effect that a walk through an insane asylum should be enough to convince most of us that taith alone is not enough. A wise Pastafarian has also - in effect -observed that reacting to the illiterate frothing that constitutes most of the site’s hate mail posts quickly gets to be a fack - er, fag. Graham/Phil’s is a brilliant, though still depressing, exception. The forums are far better places for serious discussion.

]]> By: grim trigger http://www.venganza.org/2005/10/12/hello-i-am-graham-holiman.htm#comment-510866 grim trigger Sat, 28 Jun 2008 02:13:39 +0000 http://www.venganza.org/2005/10/12/hello-i-am-graham-holiman.htm#comment-510866 Hah. @ Graham Holiman -- I'm imagining your surname to be a play on words. Philip, however, is less intelligent for neglecting to take off your name at the beginning. Also, the proselytizing gets real old, real fast. Hah. @ Graham Holiman — I’m imagining your surname to be a play on words.

Philip, however, is less intelligent for neglecting to take off your name at the beginning. Also, the proselytizing gets real old, real fast.

]]> By: Halibut Pirate http://www.venganza.org/2005/10/12/hello-i-am-graham-holiman.htm#comment-509310 Halibut Pirate Thu, 26 Jun 2008 18:54:14 +0000 http://www.venganza.org/2005/10/12/hello-i-am-graham-holiman.htm#comment-509310 Good day, Graham, or is it Philip? Thank you for your concern and for laying out our logic so very concisely. The fact remains, however, that the sticking point of your argument is sadly lacking. I would think it would be obvious that one cannot use the Bible or any paraphrasing thereof to convert those who believe it's a work of literature and nothing more. Your textbook usage of evangelical conversion technique draws heavily upon the deep insecurities of its hearers, but fortunately, most of the audience here has outgrown vulnerability to such scare tactics. I hope you find a deeper meaning in your life, maybe even one that isn't rooted in a belief system that makes you feel guilty for being human. Good day, Graham, or is it Philip? Thank you for your concern and for laying out our logic so very concisely. The fact remains, however, that the sticking point of your argument is sadly lacking. I would think it would be obvious that one cannot use the Bible or any paraphrasing thereof to convert those who believe it’s a work of literature and nothing more. Your textbook usage of evangelical conversion technique draws heavily upon the deep insecurities of its hearers, but fortunately, most of the audience here has outgrown vulnerability to such scare tactics. I hope you find a deeper meaning in your life, maybe even one that isn’t rooted in a belief system that makes you feel guilty for being human.

]]> By: Darwin http://www.venganza.org/2005/10/12/hello-i-am-graham-holiman.htm#comment-508982 Darwin Thu, 26 Jun 2008 12:24:15 +0000 http://www.venganza.org/2005/10/12/hello-i-am-graham-holiman.htm#comment-508982 Graham, a lot of text about a certain matter provides in no way proof that the matter in question is existent/useful/applicable/whatever. For example, much is written about homeopathy - that is, from a scientific point of view, entirely rubbish. On the other hand, we have "numerous texts", as Bobby stated in his original letter: "...the Flying Spaghetti Monster is there changing the results with His Noodly Appendage. We have numerous texts that describe in detail how this can be possible and the reasons why He does this." See? Text alone about something means nothing; it depends on what is written. As for another example, you may wish to look up "Phlogiston theory" in Wikipedia. That was a popular theory in the 18th century, and much was written about it. However, current opinion of the scientific community is that the Phlogiston theory is obsolete. To make a short story, the amount of writing about god does not correlate positively with the probability of his existence, whereas repeated positive chemical or physical measurements of his constituents certainly would. Thanks for the thoughts. Graham,

a lot of text about a certain matter provides in no way proof that the matter in question is existent/useful/applicable/whatever. For example, much is written about homeopathy - that is, from a scientific point of view, entirely rubbish. On the other hand, we have “numerous texts”, as Bobby stated in his original letter: “…the Flying Spaghetti Monster is there changing the results with His Noodly Appendage. We have numerous texts that describe in detail how this can be possible and the reasons why He does this.” See? Text alone about something means nothing; it depends on what is written. As for another example, you may wish to look up “Phlogiston theory” in Wikipedia. That was a popular theory in the 18th century, and much was written about it. However, current opinion of the scientific community is that the Phlogiston theory is obsolete.

To make a short story, the amount of writing about god does not correlate positively with the probability of his existence, whereas repeated positive chemical or physical measurements of his constituents certainly would.

Thanks for the thoughts.

]]> By: Cey http://www.venganza.org/2005/10/12/hello-i-am-graham-holiman.htm#comment-506936 Cey Wed, 25 Jun 2008 01:26:58 +0000 http://www.venganza.org/2005/10/12/hello-i-am-graham-holiman.htm#comment-506936 I come to you, fellow pastafaces, with a problem See, i was raised as a catholic, and after years and years of attemped brainwashing, I finally came into my own enough to look up and laugh at the idiocy around me. My problem, unfortunately, is that some of the brainwashing worked. Ironically, it is in the swearing department. I cannot, CANNOT, stop using, "Holy shit!".. "Goddamnit!".. "Jesus Christ!" ... Not because I believe any of it, but being around so many .. uhm.. non.. blasphemous... christians, It is firmly ingrained in my vocabulary as acceptable vocalizations of disgust, discomfort, and outrage. I of course use others, but for minor swears in more polite company I'm at a loss, and it is just instinct now. . Help me to shake this! Every time i say one of these I hate myself, because I feel I am lending legitimacy to something I despise as a great crime against humanity; organized religion, in my case more specifically christianity. Help out a fellow pirate :( . Cey I come to you, fellow pastafaces, with a problem
See, i was raised as a catholic, and after years and years of attemped brainwashing, I finally came into my own enough to look up and laugh at the idiocy around me. My problem, unfortunately, is that some of the brainwashing worked. Ironically, it is in the swearing department. I cannot, CANNOT, stop using, “Holy shit!”.. “Goddamnit!”.. “Jesus Christ!” … Not because I believe any of it, but being around so many .. uhm.. non.. blasphemous… christians, It is firmly ingrained in my vocabulary as acceptable vocalizations of disgust, discomfort, and outrage. I of course use others, but for minor swears in more polite company I’m at a loss, and it is just instinct now.
.
Help me to shake this! Every time i say one of these I hate myself, because I feel I am lending legitimacy to something I despise as a great crime against humanity; organized religion, in my case more specifically christianity. Help out a fellow pirate :(
.
Cey

]]> By: Benny The Ball http://www.venganza.org/2005/10/12/hello-i-am-graham-holiman.htm#comment-506488 Benny The Ball Tue, 24 Jun 2008 18:24:21 +0000 http://www.venganza.org/2005/10/12/hello-i-am-graham-holiman.htm#comment-506488 Theological writings does not count as evidence. I would not convict a person for a crime because somebody knew somebody who said he knew somebody that saw it happen. It is all hearsay and rumour that has been written down. No different to legends like King Arthur. Theological writings does not count as evidence. I would not convict a person for a crime because somebody knew somebody who said he knew somebody that saw it happen. It is all hearsay and rumour that has been written down. No different to legends like King Arthur.

]]> By: TheFewTheProudTheMarinara http://www.venganza.org/2005/10/12/hello-i-am-graham-holiman.htm#comment-506089 TheFewTheProudTheMarinara Tue, 24 Jun 2008 12:55:10 +0000 http://www.venganza.org/2005/10/12/hello-i-am-graham-holiman.htm#comment-506089 Graham: Thank you for the well-written and compassionate post. However, as the Flying Scotsman pointed out, the hole in your logic is there is NO - NONE - ZERO scientific evidence for Intelligent Design. Rather, there is bountiful evidence against it. Natural selection and mutations have been observed; DNA evidence, over a century after Darwin, independently supports evolution. Millions of fossils show changes in just about every species, including man. Or were Neanderthals god's mistakes?? Now, if a god created man in his own image, what was he doing playing around with dinosaurs for tens of millions of years? Why not cut to the chase? Hell, why create man in the first place? To punish the majority who were born before religion was created or never heard of the "one true religion" (whatever THAT is) or were brainwashed/persecuted into belonging to the locally predominant faith? "Heathen" made an interesting point - that Adam and Eve's original sin was the attempt to acquire knowledge. This has always been a tenent of Christianity and Islam. Quashing knowledge is what caused the Middle Ages in Europe, and the Taliban for instance wouldn't seem to be promoters of man's advancement. Don't even THINK about what the church powers are telling you. Just keep sending those dollars in. That's what adherence to a faith is really all about. Prayers can't help god, if he's already omnipotent. It's the franchise that needs your devotion. Graham: Thank you for the well-written and compassionate post. However, as the Flying Scotsman pointed out, the hole in your logic is there is NO - NONE - ZERO scientific evidence for Intelligent Design. Rather, there is bountiful evidence against it. Natural selection and mutations have been observed; DNA evidence, over a century after Darwin, independently supports evolution. Millions of fossils show changes in just about every species, including man. Or were Neanderthals god’s mistakes??

Now, if a god created man in his own image, what was he doing playing around with dinosaurs for tens of millions of years? Why not cut to the chase? Hell, why create man in the first place? To punish the majority who were born before religion was created or never heard of the “one true religion” (whatever THAT is) or were brainwashed/persecuted into belonging to the locally predominant faith?

“Heathen” made an interesting point - that Adam and Eve’s original sin was the attempt to acquire knowledge. This has always been a tenent of Christianity and Islam. Quashing knowledge is what caused the Middle Ages in Europe, and the Taliban for instance wouldn’t seem to be promoters of man’s advancement. Don’t even THINK about what the church powers are telling you. Just keep sending those dollars in. That’s what adherence to a faith is really all about. Prayers can’t help god, if he’s already omnipotent. It’s the franchise that needs your devotion.

]]> By: A Concerned Pastafarian http://www.venganza.org/2005/10/12/hello-i-am-graham-holiman.htm#comment-505419 A Concerned Pastafarian Mon, 23 Jun 2008 23:42:39 +0000 http://www.venganza.org/2005/10/12/hello-i-am-graham-holiman.htm#comment-505419 While I enjoyed reading this comment, I must point out a major flaw in his argument. all of the theological writings in Christianity- and Judaism, and Islam, and every other religion with a clearly defined dogma- were all based on the primary text at the center of the religion, the Bible. While I enjoyed reading this comment, I must point out a major flaw in his argument. all of the theological writings in Christianity- and Judaism, and Islam, and every other religion with a clearly defined dogma- were all based on the primary text at the center of the religion, the Bible.

]]> By: ikki http://www.venganza.org/2005/10/12/hello-i-am-graham-holiman.htm#comment-323536 ikki Sat, 01 Mar 2008 17:46:11 +0000 http://www.venganza.org/2005/10/12/hello-i-am-graham-holiman.htm#comment-323536 Has anyone noticed that our human DNA-Helix looks like to spaghetti wrapped around eachother (or a so called spirelli-noodle? Coincidence? Maybe. But it makes you think. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DNA http://www.katzen-kater.de/BeschaeftigenSpirelli.jpg and then again the resemblance to the dreadlocks http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Dreadlocked_rasta.jpg worn by rastafarians. RastafariansPastafarians another coincidence? I think not. Has anyone noticed that our human DNA-Helix looks like to spaghetti wrapped around eachother (or a so called spirelli-noodle? Coincidence? Maybe. But it makes you think.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DNA

http://www.katzen-kater.de/BeschaeftigenSpirelli.jpg

and then again the resemblance to the dreadlocks

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Dreadlocked_rasta.jpg

worn by rastafarians.

RastafariansPastafarians

another coincidence? I think not.

]]> By: Pluto http://www.venganza.org/2005/10/12/hello-i-am-graham-holiman.htm#comment-189577 Pluto Thu, 13 Sep 2007 12:24:56 +0000 http://www.venganza.org/2005/10/12/hello-i-am-graham-holiman.htm#comment-189577 Yes it dose ID made all the doom games Yes it dose ID made all the doom games

]]> By: Flying Scotsman http://www.venganza.org/2005/10/12/hello-i-am-graham-holiman.htm#comment-189427 Flying Scotsman Thu, 13 Sep 2007 00:59:39 +0000 http://www.venganza.org/2005/10/12/hello-i-am-graham-holiman.htm#comment-189427 "scientific evidence for ID" . Dear Graham, Scientific Evidence for ID DOES NOT EXIST. “scientific evidence for ID”
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Dear Graham,
Scientific Evidence for ID DOES NOT EXIST.

]]> By: El Peatieablo http://www.venganza.org/2005/10/12/hello-i-am-graham-holiman.htm#comment-189406 El Peatieablo Thu, 13 Sep 2007 00:04:59 +0000 http://www.venganza.org/2005/10/12/hello-i-am-graham-holiman.htm#comment-189406 I didn't waste my time reading your entire post, but your third point is bogus. This sight does not exist (aside from the fact that His Noodly Appendage moved Bobby to create it) to say that christianity is wrong, but that it should not be taught as science by a school supported by the US Congress. Read the Open Letter. I didn’t waste my time reading your entire post, but your third point is bogus. This sight does not exist (aside from the fact that His Noodly Appendage moved Bobby to create it) to say that christianity is wrong, but that it should not be taught as science by a school supported by the US Congress. Read the Open Letter.

]]> By: Graham Holiman http://www.venganza.org/2005/10/12/hello-i-am-graham-holiman.htm#comment-85366 Graham Holiman Mon, 26 Mar 2007 21:51:50 +0000 http://www.venganza.org/2005/10/12/hello-i-am-graham-holiman.htm#comment-85366 So I was searching for my name online and I hit this result...and look! Its 90% of my E-mail to Venganza, attached seamlessly to someone else's mail to Venganza, with no break in between! They even signed their letter at the end "Phillip", which no one seemed to notice. So yeah, this is 2 different letters, not one. I wrote everything up to the parenthesis that starts "I havent addressed what the evidence says". The end of that parenthesis was the end of my original letter. Everyone who complained about something after that may feel free to complain to Phillip. So I was searching for my name online and I hit this result…and look! Its 90% of my E-mail to Venganza, attached seamlessly to someone else’s mail to Venganza, with no break in between! They even signed their letter at the end “Phillip”, which no one seemed to notice.

So yeah, this is 2 different letters, not one. I wrote everything up to the parenthesis that starts “I havent addressed what the evidence says”. The end of that parenthesis was the end of my original letter. Everyone who complained about something after that may feel free to complain to Phillip.

]]> By: Peter Popoff http://www.venganza.org/2005/10/12/hello-i-am-graham-holiman.htm#comment-70636 Peter Popoff Sun, 11 Mar 2007 06:56:17 +0000 http://www.venganza.org/2005/10/12/hello-i-am-graham-holiman.htm#comment-70636 one gu8y who thinks, . Hi, one gu8y who thinks. You're alive, Mmmmkayyy. You can go to sleep now.... Ramen one gu8y who thinks,

.
Hi, one gu8y who thinks.
You’re alive, Mmmmkayyy.
You can go to sleep now….
Ramen

]]> By: Carl http://www.venganza.org/2005/10/12/hello-i-am-graham-holiman.htm#comment-70492 Carl Sun, 11 Mar 2007 03:30:12 +0000 http://www.venganza.org/2005/10/12/hello-i-am-graham-holiman.htm#comment-70492 You're a bird! Happy now? You’re a bird! Happy now?

]]> By: one gu8y who thinks http://www.venganza.org/2005/10/12/hello-i-am-graham-holiman.htm#comment-70490 one gu8y who thinks Sun, 11 Mar 2007 03:26:11 +0000 http://www.venganza.org/2005/10/12/hello-i-am-graham-holiman.htm#comment-70490 SOMEBODY TELL ME I'M AIVE SOMEBODY TELL ME I’M AIVE

]]> By: one gu8y who thinks http://www.venganza.org/2005/10/12/hello-i-am-graham-holiman.htm#comment-70489 one gu8y who thinks Sun, 11 Mar 2007 03:23:14 +0000 http://www.venganza.org/2005/10/12/hello-i-am-graham-holiman.htm#comment-70489 SOME CREDIT COCK SUCKER COLLECTOR HAS A JOB1 SOME CREDIT COCK SUCKER COLLECTOR HAS A JOB1

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