Mr Henderson-
While I found your “open letter” interesting in a sort of adolescent, college sophomore kind of way that I would have found entertaining 25 years ago, I also found it tiresome, conceited, and immature.
Stipulated:
-I majored in biology in college and I am a working scientist.
-I believe that life evolved on Earth pretty much the way Darwin and his philosophical descendants say it did.
-I do NOT believe that the Bible (or any other religious tome) is a scientific text regarding the mechanics of how life became as complex as we see it today
-I do not want the book of Genesis to be taught as the mechanics of how life came to be on our planet.
All of these things stipulated - I was offended as an American and a human being by the sneering, self-important, and condescending tone, tenor, and implications of your web site. Grownups don’t find humor this way.
I guess I must have missed all the other college-sophomore sarcasm infested websites you created mocking creation mythos of American Indians, African tribes, etc., and bemoaning the way that secular humanism has become the de facto established religion throughout much of the public education industry in the U.S., in defiance of the establishment clause of the First Amendment. You did make those sites, didn’t you? No?
Your statement that you have nothing against Christians is patently deceitful and dishonest. I’m trying to imagine your type finding huge humor in mocking creation mythology of Indian or African tribes in some similar context, but I’m guessing that you would be aghast, offended, and firing off accusations of “xenophobe”, “racist”, “Western exceptionalist”, “antidiversity”, etc. OK to have a snide and insensitive laugh at the expense of your cherished Christian bogeyman, but do the same thing to anyone else, and you’d be horrified, right? “Piss Christ” is cutting edge, funny, and a deep social commentary but “Piss Buddha” would be a hatecrime in your circles, no doubt. Not much intellectual consistency or progressiveness there.
As I stated above, I don’t agree with any of these creation mythologies - Abrahamic or otherwise. However, there are light-years of difference between my attitude towards them and yours. In you mind, you have made these fundamentalists into the ultimate evil and stupidity ever produced in the universe. I do not presume that they are either evil or stupid for their beliefs, but respectfully disagree. That’s what “diversity” really means - or perhaps you feel, in an Orwellian way, that some forms of diversity are more equal than others?
I fail to see the problem with being open-minded about the POSSIBILITY that the evolution which produced today’s plethora of life was the result of some entity or force instead of a completely random process. That this possibility frightens you to the degree apparent in your web site, or that you lack the philosophical or intellectual ability to be able to give it fair and even-handed consideration, says a great deal more about your own (ahem) intelligence, personal deficiencies, and insecurities than it does about those you attempt to lampoon.
Nonetheless, I think that it’s important that you and your type continue to publish as much superior-minded, look-down-you-nose stuff like this as possible, in as many places and as publicly and frequently as you can. While you’re at it, don’t forget to post maps of “Jesusland” and other graphics and words denigrating anyone who is stupid and ignorant enough to have devout religious belief, Christian being of course the worst of the lot.
See how it advances you and your agenda at the ballot box.
Cheers
Rob Thompson - Removed per his later request -
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Rob changes his mind. And I am highly skeptical about the “threats”.
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Mr Henderson-
I challenged you to post my letter to you and you did. Thank you.
However, I have been deluged with people who are frequenters of your site loading my e-mail box with all sorts of things, including solicitations and, unfortunately, threats.
I will therefore request that you remove any mention of my e-mail address from your website immediately, before something terrible happens to me or my family.
I thank you in advance.
Rob Thompson
Get over it, old man. don’t stop young ppl from having fun.
It seem he does have to courage to post the letter and not be pushed about by people who tell you what to think. Anyway budda was a real person not the son of a invisably sky man.
Thank you for writing that, Mr. Thompson. No sarcasm intended; I couldn’t have put it better myself. In addition to agreeing with most of Thompson’s thoughts, I would like to add that one of the most troublesome aspects of FSM in relation to the controversy over teaching in schools is that it takes the argument somwhere it doesn’t belong. This place would be the quesion of which theory is “right” rather than which is scientific. Sure, ID does seem silly to me too, but no sillier than natural selection, although only the latter has the advantage of being a scientific theory, and should therefore, for the time being, be the only one taught in biology.
My congratulations to Mr. Henderson on causing such a rapid spread of a popular movement, but I kind of wich he’s used his witty sense of humor to do something that was more “sharp satire” and less “goofy parody,” if that distinction makes sense. Oh well. Too late now…
Believe you me, I’m basically on the same page as most anyone reading these words — it’s just finer details of taste in humor that we’re arguing about.
PS: To Alexa Mancha — Thompson’s disagreement hardly “stops young people from having fun.” It seems to me an almost peculiarly American notion that if one disgrees with something, one is also against the right to that “something’s” expression, which I doubt of Thompson.
PPS: By all means, continue indiscriminately making fun of every belief you can get your hands on. I mean it — civilization’s intellectual survival is at stake. On that point I still disagree with Thompson. Whatever.
The thing is that Christianity, above all other religions (in the western world, anyway) has become militant in getting its doctrine into schools. Muslim extremists are stuck with blowing things up in an attempt to be recognised. Christian extremists have legislature on their side, which is much scarier.
“it’s just finer details of taste in humor that we’re arguing about.” Well, self aggrandizement doesn’t seem beneath you or the dour Mr. Thompson.
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The difference between ID and evolution is evidence. There is lots of evidence for evolution and absolutely no evidence for ID. As for being offended as an American and as a human being, Mr. Thompson, over the fact that a humorous website exists making fun of Christian fundamentalists, among others, is being extremely thin-skinned.
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As a working scientist, maybe you should spend more time having fun and less time worrying about what other people are doing. Life will go faster for you that way. Life is too short to waste it trying to make yourself and others miserable. Go kiss your wife and pet your dog.
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Oh, and you received hate email because you are filled with hate. Hate begets hate, or haven’t you learned this yet in life?
“Sure, ID does seem silly to me too, but no sillier than natural selection,”
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Oh the ignorance. Another fool who obviously is completely unaware of that which he derides. I take it you have absolutely no idea what natural selection refers to do you?
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““goofy parody,â€
What may I ask is wrong with goofy parody?
ID is a goofy parody of science, so I think it is fitting?
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“By all means, continue indiscriminately making fun of every belief you can get your hands on.”
Well now! We have the right to our beliefs as do others.
We have the right not to be bullied with others beliefs.
We, AT OUR CHURCH (i.e. where you have justed posted) right to defend our beliefs when others come here attacking our Noodley Master, threatening our prophet with opars and supa glue, while damning us all to be kicked around clouds by mary and to eternity in fiery hell lakes, simply because we don’t hold the same beliefs?
Pot and kettle?
It just so happens that most of that hatemail comes from fund a mentalist christians,
(well all the really fun stuff anyway) and not those who worship other gods
RAmen
BTW my post was directed at Lenoxus.
edit:
“opars”?? How about OARS!
Please don’t misspell Sacred Oars. Did I tell you how I lost my Oar in the war?
And I love how this Assclown goes —
“Stipulated:” and then tells us about his pitiful self.
Wow, that is obnoxious.
Stipulated:
U R A Horse’s Ass
Oh dear. Was I sneering?
Lenoxus & Rob Thompson
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A few years ago I would have agreed with both of you but over the past few years I have found that intelligent debate does not work against faith.
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When someone says to you “No matter what you say to me or what evidence you present to me, I will not change my views” and you know they mean it. When that person tells me that they must be right because they refuse to believe otherwise whilst I would be willing to change my mind given enough evidence. It slowly hits you intelligent debate and evidence alone is not enough.
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I have found only one thing that helps against faith and that is to mock it ruthlessly. I have seen it work, in school we took the piss out of someone who believed the world was only 6000 years old. He now does not believe this, although he is still Christian he is one who is less likely to take the bible liturally.
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As I have said if any other method worked then I’d use it but only mocking works. (although according to the Christians torture and death normally help but I will leave those options to the religious).
Majoring in biology doesn’t mean he actually really learnt anything. I’ve seen kids at uni, rote learn stuff and even get good grades. They usually couldn’t have a coherent conversation (let alone debate), when they finish, about what it was they should have learnt.
RAmen
@One Oared Marc
“Stipulated:â€
Probably just trying to impress us. He probably thinks we don’t know any four syllable words. Don’t be fooled by those multi-syllables people…..its a ploy.
““Piss Christ†is cutting edge, funny, and a deep social commentary but “Piss Buddha…—– I wonder, have you *ever* been insulted/preached at by a Buddhist? EVER? See, if they were the ones going around damning people to hell, they’d be the ones getting a lot of crap from other people. But, I’m pretty sure they haven’t been doing a whole lot of that lately. Besides, Christainty tends to be the main target ’cause they’re both extremly…er…’strident’ in their views (talking about the fundis here only, just to clarify) and a large religion. You could make fun of Jews all you want, but considering there’s only a few, what, million of us, where would that even get you? (Yay for making up 0.12% of the world’s population, [or whatever the number is!])
@One Oared Marc Nov 18th, 2006 at 3:11 pm
“Please don’t misspell Sacred Oars. Did I tell you how I lost my Oar in the war?”
‘
Not not yet. I am eager to hear that story Marc as I always have time to listen to the war stories of the veterans. (the old pirates too!)
Didn’t you just love the assumptions he made?
Of course I have my PC-leftist-America-Hating-Orwellian-Thought-Police card here somewhere. Don’t you?
I’ve got to say, the way his rage makes him careen off into goofy caricatures of his “enemies” is pretty damn funny. I wish he’d upload a video of himself screaming and foaming at the mouth. Great laughs.
I too am highly sceptical of the “threats”. I think he was expecting you to be so embarrassed and shamed by this letter that you wouldn’t post it. Can’t imagine why.
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“before something terrible happens to me or my family.” Idiot.
@Rob Thompson
“I guess I must have missed all the other college-sophomore sarcasm infested websites you created mocking creation mythos of American Indians, African tribes, etc.,”
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I wasn’t aware that these groups were trying to bully politicians and educational institutions into teaching their beliefs as science?
Have I missed something?
I was unaware that any non-Christian groups were attempting to infect this country with blatant falsehoods.
In response to your skepticism, no, there is nothing redeeming about any superstitious delusion, regardless of ethnicity or country of origin.
Gill, great point. When I was in Thailand I was incredibly impressed with the wonderful, kind, and polite religion that is Buddhism. Of course, it could be just that Thai people are wonderful, kind and polite, but I have a feeling that Buddhism had a large hand in it.